DT-01 front double wishbone conversion

[GregM 1109]

Wolfgang from the Tamiya Fighterteam-forums has posted his ingenious and simple to perform manual for converting the DT-01 to double wishbones at front:

http://fighterteam.d...fa7065a4e#21570

The pictures speak for themselves, so don't worry about language issues. However, here is an automated translation, in case you need one:

http://translate.goo...fa7065a4e#21570

This will narrow the front track slightly, but should greatly enhance handling.

 

EDIT 10/10/2016:

Since the links above don't work anymore, Wolfgang posted them here too:

http://www.rcsky.de/rc-modellbau-how-tos-27/optimierung-fighter-auf-dt-01-a-12299/#post196004

Google translate:

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcsky.de%2Frc-modellbau-how-tos-27%2Foptimierung-fighter-auf-dt-01-a-12299%2F%23post196004&edit-text=

Since Wolfgang's pictures are forum attachments, you can't take a closer look at them unless you register at rcsky.de. Too bad.

Edited October 10, 2016 by GregM

[kontemax 1725]

Don't like a lot the solution about the wheel axles.

Max

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

Thanks for sharing this thread; I enjoyed seeing his handiwork. I smiled when I saw he was using a drill as a lathe; I've done that in the past as well.

[GregM 1109]

Don't like a lot the solution about the wheel axles.

Max

Could you please tell what exactly you don't like about it?

I assume you're talking about the spacers that sit on the longer axles for widening the track. If yes, I think this can be circumvented by using larger c-hubs (Stadium Blitzer c-hubs appear larger to me just from looking at the manual) and/or longer lower arms. Any suggestions for longer arms that will still fit are much appreciated.

[GregM 1109]

On the quest for a wider track, I haven't found suitable longer A-arms yet. Any suggestions are appreciated.

However, there might be some different c-hub constructions, which are worth looking at:

Tamiya WR-02 chassis (Wild Willy 2, Suzuki Jimny, VW Typ2 T1)

For 2WD front wheels with 1150 bearing fitment.

Tamiya WT-01-Chassis (Blackfoot Xtreme, Blackfoot III, Mud Blaster II, Bush Devil II)

For 2WD wheels with hex fitment and 4WD wheels.

LRP S10 Twister Buggy (Typical modern 2WD buggy front, hex fitment).

Tamiya Blitzer chassis (Stadium Blitzer, Stadium Thunder, Blitzer Beetle). I have a feeling the Blitzer c-hubs might be larger than the DT-02 c-hubs, and thus might be able to create a wider track. Could somebody please confirm my thought?

[GregM 1109]

I have a feeling the Blitzer c-hubs might be larger than the DT-02 c-hubs, and thus might be able to create a wider track. Could somebody please confirm my thought?

Tested them, they're neither a direct fit, nor are they increasing the track in the desired way.

[MadInventor 3884]

What about thundershot front wishbones and C hubs ? They're a long wishbone/ c hub combo, and re-re hotshot/boomer etc axle hubs are a direct fit. This would also enable you to fit 4wd front wheels if required (Good if wanting to fit scale 4wd wheels)

[TA-Mark 195]

This is the double wishbone front end I built for my DT01 'Rabid' Rabbit. The track is the same as the original setup. Bumpsteer is none. Camber increases (the right way) slightly as the suspension compresses.

The lower arms are the key component. They are the original DT01 items with the ends cut off and cut out to fit a Blitzer C-hub. Damper moved to the inner mount position.

Parts used:

Tamiya DT02 turnbuckle set.

Tamiya Blitzer C-Hubs.

Tamiya DF03 alloy dampers.

Tamiya DT01 steering knuckle.

Tamiya DT01 lower arms (modified).

Custom pin with E-clips for the C-hub pivot.

Tamiya Star Dish narrow 2WD front wheels.

Tamiya rib/spike 2WD front tyre.

[kontemax 1725]

Hi Ta-Mark, this is the right solution.

Max

[GregM 1109]

TA-Mark, many thanks for posting your own conversion. I've recently ordered all the hardware needed for Wolfgang's conversion, eventually I may end up combining some of his and your ideas if you don't mind . The length and width of the bodyshell's "nose" could be an issue with the front camber links, depending on what body you use.

I'll also convert the chassis' central steering post to be supported by ball bearings and may also convert the lower arm mounts to have metal shafts guided by metal tubes in the chassis.

From looking at your photos, the lower wishbones, c-hubs and steering knuckles seem to be painted as they glare in a cast metal-like finish, aren't they?

[TA-Mark 195]

The body needs slight trimming at the front edge of the damper cut outs to clear the upper link mounts with the Rabbit body (same as Fighter RX). Unless you knew what to look for, you wouldn't pick it with the body on as the change is only minor.

Yes, the lower arm and C-hub are sprayed with liquid chrome (which looks like anodized silver alloy when dry). The steering knuckle is done is Humbrol Metal Cote polished steel. As I mentioned in the PM conversation, when I first did the conversion and painted the wishbones I picked them up too soon and the paint was still soft and I left fingerprints all over them. I got in over the last few days and sanded off all my fingerprints and gave them a respray so they were more photogenic.

Something I never metioned in the previous post is that I moved the steering boss rearward in the chassis. This took away the bumpsteer. The new steering boss is a custom alloy part. Steering boss is the 'peg' the steering bellcrank pivots on.

[djmcnz 754]

"Double wishbone"? Don't see it at all.

Single wishbone with upper control arm? Perhaps.

A tyre is not a wheel and all that.

[TA-Mark 195]

"Double wishbone"? Don't see it at all.

Single wishbone with upper control arm? Perhaps.

A tyre is not a wheel and all that.

Umm... Nope. A control arm is used to control caster on a real car, usually mounted between the chassis rail and the lower arm. You are confusing A-arm wishbone with just wishbone. Cars that have an A-arm type lower arm rarely have a control arm as well, and also have fixed caster and camber.

What you are describing is a Double A-arm suspension. Like the type fitted to the base model DT02s or TT01s.

[djmcnz 754]

Umm... Nope. A control arm is used to control caster on a real car, usually mounted between the chassis rail and the lower arm. You are confusing A-arm wishbone with just wishbone. Cars that have an A-arm type lower arm rarely have a control arm as well, and also have fixed caster and camber.

What you are describing is a Double A-arm suspension. Like the type fitted to the base model DT02s or TT01s.

So you're saying that an A arm is not a wishbone? i.e. Double A-arm is not double-wishbone?

[GregM 1109]

I guess this means: the term "wishbone" could mean both a proper A-arm wishbone or just a link.

When I read "double wishbone suspension" during browsing R/C related forums and magazine articles, this term was used in both cases of double A-arms or lower A-arm wishbone + upper link. This is why I assumed this is the correct term to use in this thread, although I didn't ever questioned it.

[kontemax 1725]

Hi Ta-Mark, would like to see some more pictures of the car, a picture with the total car and a picture of the rewarded steering boss.

Many thanks

max

[bsy2010 218]

@GregM

Just found this thread and would love to see the conversion Wolfgang made. But the forum seems offline.

Any chance you have some more details on this?

Thanks in advance

[GregM 1109]

I'm terribly sorry, but fighterteam's forum went down in 2014 and there's no backup that I know of. The mainsite is still live, but hasn't been updated for years.

I've already contacted fighterteam's administrator several times back then, but unfortunately I couldn't get any reply. I don't think the forums will be ever live again.

However, member wolfgang was active on other R/C forums as far as I can remember, and I have his e-mail adress. I will try to get in touch with him. If we are lucky, he might still have his car or the photos, so I could ask for his permission of reposting his work on TC.

[bsy2010 218]

That would be great! Thanks a lot!

[bsy2010 218]

Did a little thinking myself and did my own style conversion.

Parts required:

DT-03 front lower arms

DT-03 bulkhead

DT-03 C-Hubs

DT-03 screw pins and u-shaped Shaft

some screws, 2 of them very long (used the old damper shafts of my FAV) 3mm threaded rod and some ball links

Flattened the stock DT-01 bumper a little and put the DT-03 front together (shortened that u-shaft a little)

centered the bulkhead on the bumper, drilled holes and fixed bulkhead with 12mm screws and lock nuts

opened the front mounting holes for the bumper in the chassis all the way throught, this is where the top arms are going to be mounted with the longs screws. and after making the arms, the whole thing looks pretty good and is about 5 mm wider then the stock front

[Lawsy 27]

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I was wondering what the longevity/crash resistance and performance of your conversion is like, bsy2010?

I'm tempted....

Also, what's the reason for not using two pins of the correct length through the lower arm pivot and into the standard holes that the original DT01 lower arm slots into? Geometry? Travel angle?

I think I could live with the standard angle of travel, so long as I can get rid of the static/dynamic camber, and if you think it would fit (measurements would be great).

[bsy2010 218]

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I was wondering what the longevity/crash resistance and performance of your conversion is like, bsy2010?

I'm tempted....

Also, what's the reason for not using two pins of the correct length through the lower arm pivot and into the standard holes that the original DT01 lower arm slots into? Geometry? Travel angle?

I think I could live with the standard angle of travel, so long as I can get rid of the static/dynamic camber, and if you think it would fit (measurements would be great).

I have to admit that I don't drive any of my models too often, so I can't say much about longevity/crash resistance. Performance is great, although I changed the front shocks to something shorter.

Why I did it this way? No idea, made sense at the time and I wanted to make it different than anyone else and use as many standard parts as possible. Today, I would make a more elegant solution for the upper arms and add better mount points on the chassis, probably some 3D printed stuff.

[Lawsy 27]

Well it's a nice solution.

Are you able to check if the DT03 lower arms are able to in any way fit the standard front end, if say, instead if the U pin, 2 correct diameter straight pins into the standard DT01 lower arm pivot mounting positions. Do you think that would work?

And if this is asking too much then please ignore this request, but could you take some pictures of the DT03 and DT01 lower arms together, with a couple of rulers on the table for dimensional correlation?

I am wearing front tyres out at an alarming rate and this sort of solution is probably necessary if I want to keep this thing running.

Cheers

[GregM 1109]

Sorry for reviving this old thread

Lawsy, I'm thankful for reviving, since I had this thread still on my mind, but wasn't able to find it anymore.

bsy2010, This makes me curious if I should adapt your style of front end to my own DT-01. I'm sorry, I haven't gotten into contact with Wolfgang yet.

[Lawsy 27]

I really do think it will help, Greg.

I've just been looking at ways to reduced rear roll in order to be able to stiffen the front to reduce tyre wear, without reducing front end bite, but in all honesty I don't know how effective this would be.... This here is the solution that needs to be done.

I just need to figure out how to achieve this with zero modifications to the standard chassis. That might be a little more tricky...