Differences between escs

[Effigy3 1267]

I'm currently racing my TRF201 using a TBLE-02S ESC.  I have it set to 20% drag brake and 40% brake, no reverse.  It lacks low voltage cutoff for LiPo but a 5 minute qualifying race and an 8 minute main aren't enough to threaten dropping below minimum recommended voltage on the battery.  There's a lot of marketing hype around ESCs.  I'm beginning to wonder if I would have better control or more importantly to me, brakes if I went with something else.  I like the price, design and 25 year warranty of the LRP Spin Super.  The Team Orion R10 Stock looks even nicer.  I suppose I won't really know if they're any better unless I try but that's an expensive experiment.  Does anyone have experience using some of these more expensive ESCs?  Are they really all the marketing hype makes them up to be?  Will I notice a difference if I switch over to one from my TBLE-02S?

[Darat76 265]

first up, yes you do notice a difference

the tble-02s is a good smooth sensored esc, but not really for race, I have a tekin rsx gen 2 in my sct, and a rx8 gen 2 in my truggy, there is a noticeable difference in the response between either of my tekins compared to the tble,. cheap hobbywing clones are ok for bashing and messing about around the yard, but not in a racing environment, for that a hobbywing xerun sct pro is about your best choice vs price point, there are guys here running these in their sct's and their 1/8th buggies and  truggies, so it will handle pretty much anything you throw at it with the TRF201. the settings options in the sct pro esc are a lot more complex, yet simple to understand, and with a program card are easy to adjust.

in the race world, not all motors are the same, although they say XX.5T (or X.5t depending on your class) some spin faster than others, some have better torque, some will be more efficient than others. turnigy motors from hobbyking are good as a start point, and can be race leaders in the right hands, the average racer isn't going to see the podium with them without a lot of practice and luck, beyond that, talking to the other racers at your club in the same class and other classes will get you varied opinions on different motors, most will say theirs is the best and that you should get one, but what you think of their opinions and the price point is going to be the deciding factor for you.

I have orca and tekin in my trucks, have heard good things about orion, rc concepts, and reds, to name but a few. If I was you (and not to long ago I was) I'd go asking the guys your racing against, and the guys that don't race in your class what they like, and look into whats available to you in your area.

[Effigy3 1267]

Thanks Darat76,

I'm running a Trinity D3.5 17.5T at the moment.  I know it's not ROAR legal anymore but I'm not the only guy running that motor so it's not an issue at my track.  Tekin and HobbyWing are the most popular at my track with Orion and LRP being run by the Tekin haters.  It's odd.  I've never seen people so loyal to equipment.  ESC brand discussion in the pits is almost as dangerous of conversation topics as politics. 

OK, so if a true race ESC will be noticeably better than the TBLE-02S, do you think there will there be enough of a performance difference to warrant spending double the money over the $60 LRP Spin Super and the $160 LRP Flow Competition Stock or $140 Team Orion Vortex R10 Stock ?

[Backlash 481]

IMHO, one thing that I would be looking at with a race ESC is the motor limit / current rating, and also the on resistance.. The higher the current rating, and the lower the on resistance is, then the better the ESC will be.. The other thing that I would be looking at is the rating of the ESC's BEC, especially if you are planning to run a high torque/speed digital servo..

I too am a fan of Tekin ESC's, and I have two Gen1 Tekin RS ESC's that work flawlessly.. I also have an older LRP Sphere, and a LRP Sphere Comp TC ESC that work just fine, but they are not as programmable as the Tekin ESC's with a Hotwire interface and PC.. The other thing that I don't like about the LRP's is that they are Sensored ONLY, whereas the Tekin's can be setup to run both Sensored and non-sensored motors..

[werewolf 72]

I run a Team Orion Vortex R10 (the 160A version) in my Kyosho RB6 and am very pleased with that. It is smooth, fits my driving style and has more options than I will probably ever use. One big disadvantage is that programming is very difficult and confusing if you try to do it without the programming box, as it is very easy to get lost in all the features (not sure if that is still true for the newer versions though). And programming boxes cost as much as $90 so your Vortex esc will probably have cost you the better part of $200 before you're ready to use it. So while it is good (IMHO), it is not cheap.

[Percymon 2184]

You can't go wrong with Tekin, top quality items with plenty of adjustments via the interface (although dependent upon your race rules you may not be able to adjust too many aspects ?).  Not cheap, but I've rarely seen a Tekin item fail.

[Darat76 265]

the hobbywing xerun sct pro should fall in between the LRP super spin and the orion r10 cost wise for you.

While I do like Tekin, I am also aware that they tend to fail when changing settings outside the factory preset profiles, while I know this is user error created failures, it does show that they aren't as forgiving as other esc's can be.

And just like many of the other top of the line race brands, the sct pro can run sensored and unsensored.

[Effigy3 1267]

It looks like HobbyWing is the OEM of a lot of ESCs on the market but I can't find a list of who is an OEM and who is just a rebrand.  It makes no sense to me to spend $$ for a rebrand when the OEM version is cheaper.  I looked at the XERUN SCT and like it well enough.  For $120 I would likely get something different though.  To me HobbyWing is a budget brand.  If it were $80 then I might feel differently but if I'm going to spend $130 I'll get an LRP, Orion, or Tekin.  In that order.

The Tamiya Volac line of ESCs are just rebranded LRP.  For instance the Tamiya Volac BL2 is an LRP SXX with a $100 premium tacked on top.  I'm leaning toward LRP because I like that it's a German company and I appreciate European engineering quality.  I also like that LRP was the OEM for Tamiya's race line of ESCs.

So I have to decide if a budget ESC will be enough of an improvement over the TBLE-02S to warrant the expense.  The two budget ESCs on my list are:

Hobbywing XR10 Justock Spec ESC  @ $51

LRP Spin Super  @ $63

I really wish I had some driving experience with them, or at least some detailed facts, in-depth objective tests on them to help base a decision.  Again, my fear is that these might not be noticeably better than my TBLE-02S.  All I might gain is LiPo low battery cut-off. 

If I eschew the budget end of spectrum I'm considering:

LRP Flow Works Team ESC w/ bundled X20 13.5T motor  @ $213

I like this combo because it's the top end LRP ESC coupled with what amounts to a $93 motor for $23.  While I don't need a 13.5T motor now, there are rumblings of a super stock 4WD buggy class opening up at my local track.  I'm interested in running in that class and to do so I'd need a 13.5T motor.   Speculative?  Sure but for $23 it's worth it. 

I don't want to go middle of the road.  That seams like a compromise.  Will a budget ESC be significantly better than my current one?  What if I spend $200-ish on an ESC and it's no better than a budget or my current one?  Why oh why can't I "test drive" these things?

[Darat76 265]

Not sure where your looking for the sct pro at $120, the one I'm looking at is selling for $89.99 USD plus plus $1.99 USD flat rate shipping from amain.com, not sure if you like that online store or not tho

[Effigy3 1267]

47 minutes ago, Darat76 said:

Not sure where your looking for the sct pro at $120, the one I'm looking at is selling for $89.99 USD plus plus $1.99 USD flat rate shipping from amain.com, not sure if you like that online store or not tho

Too right.  I must've gotten it's price confused with the XERUN V3.1 Stock.    Even still.  If I'm going to spend nearly $100 I'll just spend the more and get the top ESC.  I know myself.  I tend to avoid the middle level products.  I always end up wishing that I either spent less or got the higher end model.

Darat76, is there a discernible difference between all these for someone running 17.5T stock class?

[Darat76 265]

That depends on if it's a blinky mode stock, if it is, then the esc makes very little difference, that goes to gearing and motor timing, if it's not 17.5T blinky mode then they can make a difference as this allows the use of boost, timing advance, boost strength and when it kicks in.

Hobbywings xerun line of esc's are the top of their line regardless of model just they have slight differences between each one for each class, the sct pro is for the sct's in 2 & 4wd obviously, but price, and versatility make it good for any class, it's weight is a draw back for on road, and crippling for 1/10 scale f1, pro 10 & pro 12 classes.

As for the devide between racers over brand is just like the Ford vs dodge vs Chevy, like with here and aus with Ford vs Holden. 

For me if my tekin esc's either get old or blow up I'll prolly go to rc concepts range, or Hobbywings.

[Effigy3 1267]

Currently I am racing in blinky mode. 

I've been researching this for days and from what I can gather the more expensive ESCs provide more features with more refined settings.  They are more reliable and should have greater durability.

I've decided that I will upgrade from my TBLE-02S.  I don't know if I'll see better performance or control but I will at least gain proper low voltage cutoff protection.  I've also decided no low end ESC for my race buggy.  An ESC is an investment and I want something that will allow me to grow as a racer and will grow with me as I improve.  I'm leaning towards the LRP Flow Works Team edition at the moment but I'm keeping the Team Orion Vortex R10.1 Pro and the HobbyWing Xerun 120A V3.1 on the short list.

It'll be a few weeks before I make my purchase.  In that time I'm going to shift my focus to features, warranty and support.  If I can justify the price then I'll very likely get one of those three.

I really do appreciate all your suggestions.  I'm horrible about making purchases like these.  Researching a ton, mulling it over and what not.  In the end it may not make a difference because maybe they're all pretty much the same. 

[Backlash 481]

I have not raced in a few years so some of my comments may seem a bit redundant, but...

As previously stated, I have 4 top line ESC's, two Tekin Gen1 RS's, an LRP Sphere, and an LRP Sphere Comp TC..

I primarily raced stock, or its brushless equivalent when I raced.. One big thing that turned me against LRP as a brand, was when the governing body here in Australia decided that it would move away from timed ESC's, and that we would now need a "blinky" ESC to race in these classes..

What this basically meant to me was that my two, very expensive LRP ESC's were no longer "legal" for use in the stock blinky classes... If I had wished to continue using the LRP brand for racing, it would have required me to buy two new ESC's at this time to remain legal.. I found this to be unacceptable..

For the two Tekin ESC's it meant half an hour spent on my PC to download the new "blinky" software from Tekin, and then upload it into my two Gen1 RS ESC's, making them legal again..

[Effigy3 1267]

Backlash,

That's just the sort of customer support (or lack of) that I think might be more important in deciding which ESC to use.  The minor differences between brands likely aren't noticeable to me but how the company supports its customer base certainly will be.

[Theibault 1535]

I stopped racing 3 years ago, however, I LOVE Tekin escs. I have 3 Gen 1 RS Pros, 3 Gen 1 RX8s, and a handful of FXRs. I have had no issues with any. Love the HotWire app for changes too. They have been fantastic too on the customer service side, always available to take a call or answer an email in a timely manner. I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for and find Tekin worth every penny. I also have 3 Viper VTX10R escs, but they have sadly gone out of business.

[Backlash 481]

45 minutes ago, Effigy3 said:

Backlash,

That's just the sort of customer support (or lack of) that I think might be more important in deciding which ESC to use.  The minor differences between brands likely aren't noticeable to me but how the company supports its customer base certainly will be.

In hindsight, I probably should have mentioned it in my first post.. Sorry..

EDIT.. I will admit that I did have one small issue with one of my Tekin RS ESC's, and that was when I was trying to run Timing and Boost on 1S LiPo in a 1/12 car.. On 2S LiPo it worked fine, but on 1S it would shut down as soon as the boost timing was applied..

I don't know if the issue was with the ESC, how I had the BEC voltage booster wired in, the programming that I was using in the ESC, or it was related to the battery not being able to deliver the current required on boost.. The 1/12 class failed before I got the problem sorted..

IIRC, with no timing or boost, the Tekin RS ESC worked just find on 1s LiPo..

I just thought that I would mention it to be fair...

 

[Effigy3 1267]

I'm a numbers guy and I like to base my choices on hard facts, so I created a table to aggregate all the specs into one glance.

The first thing I noticed is that at 1.5A my TBLE-02S is very under-powered for my servo.  3A is the norm with a couple of 5A jobbers. Also, it's quite heavy.  After digesting all this information I like the Novak for their high BEC output and long warranty which implies quality and confidence in the product.  A very close second is the Tekin RSX.  It's $10 more than the Novak, has a smaller foot print and profile, and has a more modern feel.  The downside is the warranty period is 1/3 as long.

 

 

[Darat76 265]

There is 1 more you could put on that last, and that's the tekin rx8 gen 2, it does have a large footprint but has all the options of the rs line for tenth scale, will handle all your power draw, and can run 2 to 6s lipos, it just costs more coz it's aimed at eighth scale use.... 

[Effigy3 1267]

39 minutes ago, Darat76 said:

There is 1 more you could put on that last, and that's the tekin rx8 gen 2, it does have a large footprint but has all the options of the rs line for tenth scale, will handle all your power draw, and can run 2 to 6s lipos, it just costs more coz it's aimed at eighth scale use.... 

There's no way that an RX8 would fit under the of my TRF 201.  When I first built it I thought to run a Super Stock BZ motor and a Duratrax Intellispeed 12T ESC.  That ESC is listed as having a 13mm height and it rubbed on the body.  Granted, due to it's other dimensions I had to rotate it so the heat sink wasn't positioned as far from the outer edge of the chassis as I'd like.  Regardless, Really big ESCs are a no go for me in this buggy.  That's one major factor for me which means I should probably put the Tekin at the top of my list, followed by the Speed Passion since they're the lowest profile.  Either that, or I need a width of < 43mm so I can rotate it in my chassis tub.  Taking that into consideration the LRP and Tekin move to the top of the list.

I'm going to go and measure my chassis tub and see how much space I have.

Edit:  I have 38 mm of width in my chassis.

[werewolf 72]

I have an RX8 Gen 2 in my 1/8 scale nuggy and even there it feels kind of big and klunky, so I would not recommend it at all for a 1/10 scale buggy. A SC maybe, but not a buggy.

[Darat76 265]

to be honest, I wasn't being completely serious, your right werewolf, it's to big for a 10th scale buggy, but flip side is you could really over power that 10th buggy with one of them if you had the space

 

and Ian, if it was me, I'd go for the rs gen 2, not the rs gen 2 spec, as there are less limitations on the esc meaning it can progress through more classes with you, and yes I know it does cost more, and I would have mentioned it sooner, but was on my phone earlier

[Effigy3 1267]

Since the chassis will accommodate an ESC with a maximum width 37mm, and the 201 body will accommodate an ESC with a maximum height of about 20mm, I think the choice comes down to 3 best options.

1. Tekin
2. LRP
3. Speed Pasison

I know for a fact that the LRP will fit.  The Tamiya Volac ESC was a rebranded LRP SXX. While the SXX is discontinued, the Flow series replacement has exactly the same dimensions.  The Tekin is smaller than the LRP in all regards.  The Speed Passion Revention Stock Club Race ESC will also fit with no worries.

I think the Speed Passion will be my "budget" choice.  There's something to be said for spending just $60.    I also think there's no question that it would be superior to my TBLE-02S.

The Tekin and LRP offerings don't match up exactly, so I can't just pick with one is cheaper at a particular tier.  I think it will come down to pricing in two weeks time which is about when I think I'll be buying the new ESC.

At this time, the Tekin RS Gen 2 is the one that I am likely to get with the LRP as a second option.  It'll depend on any sales or combo deals available in a couple of weeks.

[XV Pilot 1936]

Speed Passion would be my choice out of those options.  I use their motors, and am well impressed with the build quality and attention to detail that is evident in their design. I haven't tried one of their ESCs yet but I am confident they would be just as good.

 

And while kind to the wallet, they also have a race pedigree, having powered IFMAR and EFRA champions to victory.

[Effigy3 1267]

Thanks XV, I value your insight!  Considering I just found the Speed Passion Reventon Pro 1.1 with LCD program card at RCmart for $108 delivered, I think I have found my ESC. 

[scoobybooster 248]

I had (and still have) quite a few SP Reventons. Pretty good set and i never complain for 110$ you won't get a better set maybe. As long as you stay in Stock Class racing (13.5T>) you're fine. But beware these are pretty overrated IMO, never output 140Amps and cannot handle more than 8.5T motors although tech specs promise much more than this. For higher spec racing like modified class, i ended with Team Orion R10.1. This ESC can handle almost any kind of motor and is worth every penny.
For me when it comes to buy an ESC, it's like buying cheap buying twice. I learned my lesson but hey, that's just me