Unknown car. Please help ID

[richb77 78]

I just bought a group lot of in need of restoration cars and one is a complete unknown to me.

ive never owned or seen a Kyosho but from what I can see this could be one.

can anyone help? Sorry for the shot. It's all I could get at the moment.

[wolfdogstinkus 1893]

Looks like it maybe a wr01/ wt01 Tamiya wild dagger?

Need a better picture but I am sure someone will confirm or deny soon.

[Terz1 745]

Yes I agree. It looks like a WR01. Has it got 2 motors? I can see some steering arms next to the gearbox with the motor attached which points to it being the 4wd twin motored WR01 but I can't make out the rear properly. If it's only got one gearbox and motor it'll be the WT01. Hth

[Terz1 745]

Here's a pic of the wr01 chassis for comparison...

Like already mentioned due tothe colour of the wheels it's probably the RTR tamiya wild dagger...

[richb77 78]

Ooh. Completely blindsided me there. I couldn't place it but your right terz it looks like a RTR wild dagger. Never heard if it....research ahoy!

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

6 hours ago, Terz1 said:

Like already mentioned due to the colour of the wheels it's probably the RTR tamiya wild dagger...

Wild Dagger, yes certainly, but "RTR"?

[Darat76 265]

2 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

Wild Dagger, yes certainly, but "RTR"?

I think at some point in it's life it was rtr.... now not so much...

[Terz1 745]

2 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

Wild Dagger, yes certainly, but "RTR"?

Did it come in kit form too? I thought the wild dagger was all RTR. If it came in kit form too I'll rephrase. It's a wild dagger rtr or kit. 

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

9 minutes ago, Darat76 said:

I think at some point in it's life it was rtr.... now not so much...

Haha! I agree that it doesn't exactly looks ready to run! My comment however was to question the abbreviation "RTR", as it would normally indicate a factory built model. To the best of my knowledge, Tamiya has never released the Wild Dagger or any of the other 4WD-versions of the WT-01 (Tamiya doesn't use the "WR-01" name that is pretty common among Tamiya fans) as XB / RTR models. Only RWD WT-01 models, which would indicate that your model didn't start its life as an XB (RTR), or in theory, could have started as an RWD WT-01, but modified to 4WD and getting the gun metal wheels of the Wild Dagger later, which I consider unlikely. Also, the XB WT-01s normally (always?) have a code printed in white on the frame. The kits don't, so if your model doesn't have a printed code on the frame, it's probably not an XB.

[Darat76 265]

Check on tamiya USA gives 1 option, kit number 58231

[Darat76 265]

addendum, thread should prolly go over to general....

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

7 minutes ago, Darat76 said:

Check on tamiya USA gives 1 option, kit number 58231

Exactly! The versions available (with wheel colour in brackets):

XB (RTR), all RWD:

57727 XB Mighty Bull, 2004, (white)
57729 XB Overlander, 2004, (yellow)
57825 XB Blackfoot III, 2012, (chrome)
57839 XB Mud Blaster II, 2012, (chrome)
57840 XB Bush Devil II, 2012, (chrome)

4WD Kits:

58231 Wild Dagger, 1999, (metallic grey)
58309 Twin Detonator, 2003, (white)
58366 Double Blaze, 2006, (chrome)
58396 Dual Hunter, 2007, (chrome)

RWD Kits, WT-01:

58312 Blackfoot Xtreme, 2003, (yellow, but prototype pics showing it with (pinkish) red wheels)
58498 Blackfoot III, 2011, (chrome)
58514 Mud Blaster II, 2011, (chrome)
58523 Bush Devil II, 2012, (chrome)

RWD Kits, WT-01N (narrow):

58603 Volkswagen Amarok Custom Lift, 2015, (black)

 

[Darat76 265]

dude, did you just write that up from memory?

or were you hunting, surfing, and researching all that?

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

36 minutes ago, Darat76 said:

dude, did you just write that up from memory?

or were you hunting, surfing, and researching all that?

My memory isn't that good! I started compiling information about Tamiya items with handwritten lists around 1981-1982, re-entered the information in "Basic" in 1984, then converted to Word Perfect a few years later, then to Word and finally (?) to Excel in 2001. The search for information has been continuous for 3 1/2 decades by now, so extracting information like in the previous post from what has become a database is quick and easy. But of course, I need to know what to look for.

[Terz1 745]

Good info Mokei! 

So from that it can be only one. And it was a kit not rtr.

58231 Wild Dagger, 1999, (metallic grey)

Do you know how long each versions production run lasted? Now that would be impressive!

[Darat76 265]

1 minute ago, Terz1 said:

Good info Mokei! 

So from that it can be only one. And it was a kit not rtr.

58231 Wild Dagger, 1999, (metallic grey)

Do you know how long each versions production run lasted? Now that would be impressive!

from what I've seen of Mokei's posts, that will be in the spread sheet also....

[Darat76 265]

10 minutes ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

My memory isn't that good! I started compiling information about Tamiya items with handwritten lists around 1981-1982, re-entered the information in "Basic" in 1984, then converted to Word Perfect a few years later, then to Word and finally (?) to Excel in 2001. The search for information has been continuous for 3 1/2 decades by now, so extracting information like in the previous post from what has become a database is quick and easy. But of course, I need to know what to look for.

I'd hate to see how large the pile of paper would be if you printed all of your database out....

[Terz1 745]

I have to add Mokei that it's amazing the knowledge you've amassed over such a long period of time. I'm sure everyone in the club is greatful that you've gone to such lengths. 

If you ever did mastermind your specialist subject would definitely be tamiya.

[richb77 78]

8 hours ago, Mokei Kagaku said:

My memory isn't that good! I started compiling information about Tamiya items with handwritten lists around 1981-1982, re-entered the information in "Basic" in 1984, then converted to Word Perfect a few years later, then to Word and finally (?) to Excel in 2001. The search for information has been continuous for 3 1/2 decades by now, so extracting information like in the previous post from what has become a database is quick and easy. But of course, I need to know what to look for.

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

12 hours ago, Terz1 said:

Do you know how long each versions production run lasted? Now that would be impressive!

I'd love to confirm that, but no, I don't.

I don't have any direct contacts at Tamiya Japan, and even when I worked for a Tamiya country distributor (1983-2000), we were generally not informed by Tamiya about items getting discontinued. That might have changed since then, but I doubt so. Some would probably argue that comparing catalogs of different years would provide this information, but it doesn't. In many cases, items will have been discontinued long before they are out of the catalogs and similarly, many items can be ordered from Tamiya long after they are gone from the catalogs too.

Furthermore, "discontinued" and "last production run" are of course not the same thing, so often, items will not be discontinued before long after the last production run. However, the Japanese are probably the best in the world to avoid keeping stock for longer than absolutely necessary and instead manufacture according to demand, but as both approaches cause different kinds of costs, it's mostly a case by case decision.

I also often read claims that varying availability in shops and from distributors are indications of different productions runs (and not continuous production), and while that may seem a reasonable assumption, I have never seen any solid facts to back this logic. The same goes for re-releases using the original release item number. Shops and distributors often announce Tamiya items as re-releases when they stock up again after being empty, when in reality the item has been continuously available from Tamiya. As Tamiya also re-release many items using the original release item numbers after being unavailable for a long time, knowing when an item is officially re-released and not just restocked by the shop or distributor that announces it as a re-release, is pretty difficult to verify. As a general rule, I only trust information where Tamiya Japan is the direct source. Most shops and distributors aren't credible information sources and from a commercial point of view, there is hardly any reason why they should be, so I'm not blaming them.

Finally, I completely avoid entering assumptions in my Tamiya "database", regardless how good they might be. If I would start doing that, I would "dilute" the total information over time, and it would soon be impossible to distinguish solid facts from assumptions, and the information would be useless. So I only enter verified information, with the modest exception of entering tentative information when the first trickle of information about future releases becomes available, thereby clearly marking and colourcoding the tentative information and correcting it as soon as verified information gets available.

As surely most of Tamiya enthusiasts, I'm rather pedantic when it comes to details, both with regard to the Tamiya items themselves and information about them. However, I have the handicap of being a TÜV-certified automotive quality management auditor in ISO9001, TS16949 and VDA6.3. This makes being a "dislikeable" pedant an absolute requirement in my job, but I can't avoid practising this in my private life too, which is often certainly a drawback. I deliberately work in the same fashion with my Tamiya "database" though. Of course I would love to record every possible detail about production figures, location, release and discontinuation, batch sizes, changes in colours, material and surface treatment, tool maintenance and repair, number of cavities in each tool, dates for audits of processes, quality management system, subsuppliers and so on. Information that is very likely recorded by Tamiya, and that would probably require a direct virtually daily contact to Tamiya Japan to get. Something I will very likely never get. So I limit the scope of information to information that can be verified with the sources I have and even that has necessitated updates to the "database" virtually every day, especially since the advent of internet and E-mail.

Sorry for the long text, but I felt obliged to give a pretty comprehensive answer to your question as compiling credible information about Tamiya is a lot more complex than often anticipated.

[Mokei Kagaku 2706]

4 hours ago, richb77 said:

Well, you should know that I'm extremely unsatisfied with the "database" as it is. It has never at any time been complete and as I try to include all Tamiya items with official item numbers (and many without, but mostly excluding numbers for parts bags and sprues of the static and Mini 4WD models and the educational series), I still regularly stumble over old items and items limited to certain markets, that I didn't know existed.

It's tedious work and strict "rules" have to be followed to keep the "database" a credible information source, but I know perfectly well that anyone could do it. It's kind of stupid though, especially when considering that Tamiya Japan's records surely are infinitely better. Probably the reason why most don't care to do it, but for me it's an enjoyable part of the hobby, and while being pedantic about it, I never take myself seriously to any noteworthy degree.