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njmlondon

Lancia 037 Old School

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Hi all I just wanted some input from those who know these sorts of things!

I have a Lancia 037 on the TA03RS chassis and love it.

But for some reason I have seen a few original Lancia Rally's recently and love the stance and 2wd nature of the old Frog / Brat chassis.

I would really like to build myself one so am thinking of the following:

1) modify the spare re-re Lancia shell I have to make it like the original

2) buy some wheels and tires from the Willy Wheeler re-re

3) buy a NIB Brat (I have plans for the Subaru shell)

Stick all 3 together and voila, an Old School Lancia...

However I imagine that there are some bespoke Lancia parts I need to convert a Brat chassis into one that takes the Lancia.

The bumper is obvious but can anybody tell me what else I would need?

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Maybe the F & R wheel fitting could be a problem to the Brat chassis axles and drive plates , and the Lancias side body mounts are not in the Brat kit

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Fantastic - another Lancia! :)

KEV THE REV is correct on the side mounts for the body; the Brat uses a different system. The Honda City Turbo wheels are also of a different mounting system than the original Lancia wheels. The tires are just a bit smaller in outside diameter to the Lancia tires, but the difference is marginal at best.

You will require a means to fit pin-drive stub axles to the front end of the chassis and will need a hexagonal adapter for the rears, too. Do not forget the special parts required to adapt the Wheeler wheels to said pin and hexagonal axles. They are the K parts in the Honda City Turbo kit. Also required are 5 screws and washers for each front wheel (similar to the Brat wheels).

I will post again when I think of something else. Please let us know how it gets along; I too fancied putting those stylish turbine wheels onto my own Lancia ;)

As for the bumper: TC member JWeston had a Lancia Rally fitted with a Frog/Brat bumper - it fit, but the bumper only really protected the front lights.

P.S.: I have spent a lot of time with my Lancia Rally; if you have any further questions do not hesitate to send me a PM!

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I might be going mad, but I think the arches are bigger on the Brat shell.

No you are not going mad. They are larger but it is very easy to sand them out to the original shape.

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I had the same idea a while ago. I've bought a new 037 shell and a new Brat kit with the aim of replicating the same cartoonish stance of the Lancia Rally. I don't know what I'm going to do about wheels yet. I've put all this to one side for now whilst I finish my other project.

lancia1.jpg

lancia2.jpg

brat.jpg

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A bit of midnight research has left me a bit crestfallen... Finding the body mounts and other Lancia specific pieces is going to be hard work.

Maybe I should find an old Lancia and restore where necessary with new Frog/Brat parts where applicable.

Need to get a good measure on the re re Wheeler tires and wheels too to see how different they are.

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I've done practically no research for mine. Maybe when I get round to building it I'll find all sorts of problems to overcome, but I'm not bothered about some of the details - I know what it needs to look like to make me happy. :)

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The side body mounts are standard enough to find easily , the main problem if you can call it a problem would be the wheel adaptation , but I'm sure it's not too much of a drag to overcome

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Wheeler wheels are the same dimensions as the Lancia types; tires are the same except for outer diameter - they are smaller by only a few millimetres. We know the wheels are the same size because they appear on the Audi Quattro and Opel Ascona using the same tires as the Lancia Rally.

Are the two really that different? I only recall really needing side body posts; the front post can be adjusted to the same length required of the Lancia shell and the suspension components are virtually identical... The bumper and its mount will be difficult, but those are less significant pieces unless you intend to run it, in which case anything less than a fresh one will be useless.

I would still imagine that adapting the shell to fit the chassis would be the hardest task, but even then the original dips in the side panels (where the original needed reinforcement for the body posts) are present on the re-release. All that is really needed for adaptation is to drill out the central front hole and two side mount holes, and to widen the wheel arches.

Should you so desire, njmlondon, I can give you measurements for the wheel arches as I have easy access to my Lancia Rally.

Edit: I stand corrected; procuring uprights that accept pin-drive wheels at the front may be harder... I saw a solution used for a Blackfoot-type chassis on TamiyaClub that may be utilized, but I do not know enough about that chassis to speculate if it will work with the Frog suspension components.

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Lancia rear body mounts the same as Bruiser rear body mounts # 9804618

With the re re bruiser they are readily available in the right blackended steel colour

http://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/tam9804618.htm

http://www.modellbau-seidel.de/index.php?firma=Tamiya&best=9804618

Front body mount the same as vintage brat, harder to source, the re re one is blue and all wrong

Terragni

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Wheeler wheels are the same dimensions as the Lancia types; tires are the same except for outer diameter - they are smaller by only a few millimetres. We know the wheels are the same size because they appear on the Audi Quattro and Opel Ascona using the same tires as the Lancia Rally.

Are the two really that different? I only recall really needing side body posts; the front post can be adjusted to the same length required of the Lancia shell and the suspension components are virtually identical... The bumper and its mount will be difficult, but those are less significant pieces unless you intend to run it, in which case anything less than a fresh one will be useless.

I would still imagine that adapting the shell to fit the chassis would be the hardest task, but even then the original dips in the side panels (where the original needed reinforcement for the body posts) are present on the re-release. All that is really needed for adaptation is to drill out the central front hole and two side mount holes, and to widen the wheel arches.

Should you so desire, njmlondon, I can give you measurements for the wheel arches as I have easy access to my Lancia Rally.

Edit: I stand corrected; procuring uprights that accept pin-drive wheels at the front may be harder... I saw a solution used for a Blackfoot-type chassis on TamiyaClub that may be utilized, but I do not know enough about that chassis to speculate if it will work with the Frog suspension components.

My desire to have an old school Lancia is all your fault Grastens! It was the sight of your Lancia in the snow that reminded me how cool they were!

So, following Terrangi's input, the side bodyposts are a non issue.

The front one is a minor problem but surely reasonably easy to still find an original Brat bodypost.

For the bumper I am thinking if using a CRP style white bumper which I actually think may be more effective (it is sloped rather than vertical) at protecting the car.

So that means that it is really the wheels and tires which could cause me issues.

I have been looking at the original Lania manual, the original Frog and Brat manuals, the re-re Frog and Brat manuals and also the re-re-Wheeler manual to see if i can work out exactly what to do. the re-re Wheeler seems to have some sort of adaptor for the rears to switch to a hex fitting.

I would assume that I could use this adaptor on the rears wheels and use a hex on the re-re Frog / Brat rear... what do you think?

For the front wheels I am struggling to work out why they would be a problem at all? Are they not like the originals with bearings on each side? Would they not fit on both original and re-re front uprights? Or were Lancia uprights a different size / shape to the Frog brat ones?

PS if anybody reading this has some parts you think I may want to buy then let me know!

Alternatively if anybody has a Lancia Rally that they would want to trade / part exchange for the TA03RS Re Re, then let me know. I have one NIB that I am now thinking of trading in.

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Lancia rear body mounts the same as Bruiser rear body mounts # 9804618

With the re re bruiser they are readily available in the right blackended steel colour

http://www.rpphobby.com/product_p/tam9804618.htm

http://www.modellbau-seidel.de/index.php?firma=Tamiya&best=9804618

Front body mount the same as vintage brat, harder to source, the re re one is blue and all wrong

Terragni

Thanks for the heads up on the Bruiser mounts.

Regarding the re-re, can you tell me what is "all wrong" with it? Is it not simply a body post with the same height as the original?

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Thanks for the heads up on the Bruiser mounts.

Regarding the re-re, can you tell me what is "all wrong" with it? Is it not simply a body post with the same height as the original?

The re re Brat front body mount will work, it is just that it is anodised blue and looks out of place on a vintage vehicle (to my eyes)

http://www.rcsparks.com/forum/threads/scooby-brat-all-toyd-up.32844/

But then again this will be a frankenlancia of sorts so.......

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My desire to have an old school Lancia is all your fault Grastens! It was the sight of your Lancia in the snow that reminded me how cool they were!

So, following Terrangi's input, the side bodyposts are a non issue.

The front one is a minor problem but surely reasonably easy to still find an original Brat bodypost.

For the bumper I am thinking if using a CRP style white bumper which I actually think may be more effective (it is sloped rather than vertical) at protecting the car.

So that means that it is really the wheels and tires which could cause me issues.

I have been looking at the original Lancia manual, the original Frog and Brat manuals, the re-re Frog and Brat manuals and also the re-re-Wheeler manual to see if i can work out exactly what to do. the re-re Wheeler seems to have some sort of adaptor for the rears to switch to a hex fitting.

I would assume that I could use this adaptor on the rears wheels and use a hex on the re-re Frog / Brat rear... what do you think?

For the front wheels I am struggling to work out why they would be a problem at all? Are they not like the originals with bearings on each side? Would they not fit on both original and re-re front uprights? Or were Lancia uprights a different size / shape to the Frog brat ones?

PS if anybody reading this has some parts you think I may want to buy then let me know!

Alternatively if anybody has a Lancia Rally that they would want to trade / part exchange for the TA03RS Re Re, then let me know. I have one NIB that I am now thinking of trading in.

I plead no-contest :P

I forgot to ask: are you looking for an authentic old-school Lancia? In that case, where you will be looking for an original chassis that uses the original front body post and other components like the off-servo servo saver, it is better to take your chances to find an original car in need of some restoration.

If you are like me and just want a runner that is otherwise a re-release O.R.V. with a Lancia shell and feel, then your only issues are the ones with side body mounts and other small details.

The Wheeler wheels accept bearings - really big ones! They sat inside the wheel and spun around what I was sure was a 6 mm or larger plastic stub; the wheel would actually be screwed onto the upright as the large wheel bearing and a metal spacer similarly-sized to a standard 1150 ball bearing (but not quite!) took up the space.

I once had an idea to equip the front wheels of an Audi Quattro with those large bearings and then seat another bearing inside those to adapt the wheels to O.R.V. front uprights, but never got around to it. In short: your difficulties with fitting the front wheels will be the result of those wheels not being designed to accept a regular ball bearing with a conventional inner diameter.

You will need to adapt the Team CRP front bumper to fit the Lancia, but it is not impossible; I did it on my own car before switching to the controversial TA-03RS re-release front unit. It did require some jury-rigging, but enough scrap metal and sufficiently-long screws can solve the problem! The issue is that the Team CRP bumper does not extend far enough from the chassis to clear the lower bumper of the Lancia shell. However, once fitted, it does pay homage to the original front bumper while offering superior protection. I would share my solution, but I am sure you can come up with a better one as mine placed a lot of shear stress on the screws and used an anodized limited-edition TRF part to hold everything in place!

Your offer to trade for a vintage Lancia using the re-release almost tempted me into going for it... I am not sure how likely I am to part with mine at this point, but in all fairness mine could definitely benefit from a restoration and I have enough unique parts to build a second one - all I would need is a Subaru Brat or a Frog to do so ;)

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I plead no-contest :P

I forgot to ask: are you looking for an authentic old-school Lancia? In that case, where you will be looking for an original chassis that uses the original front body post and other components like the off-servo servo saver, it is better to take your chances to find an original car in need of some restoration.

If you are like me and just want a runner that is otherwise a re-release O.R.V. with a Lancia shell and feel, then your only issues are the ones with side body mounts and other small details.

I like to run my cars and have never been too bothered by making them 100% original. I tend to come from the "if it looks and feels right, it is right" school.

I also like to play with chassis set-ups. My re-re scorcher for instance is on a fighting buggy chassis (I prefer the direct steering servo set up). I have considered using Monster Beatle Red or Bush Devil blue chassis for this Lancia although they may be a bit bling!

The Wheeler wheels accept bearings - really big ones! They sat inside the wheel and spun around what I was sure was a 6 mm or larger plastic stub; the wheel would actually be screwed onto the upright as the large wheel bearing and a metal spacer similarly-sized to a standard 1150 ball bearing (but not quite!) took up the space.

Ah OK I know the ones you mean. i have a Wild Willy M38 which I guess uses the same sized bearing... 2280's I believe. And therefore it makes sense that the original Wheeler wheels (and the original Opel or Audi wheels too) all use the same sized bearings.
I like your idea. Theoretically the baby 850 bearings would sit inside 2280's... maybe a pair of them next to each other? I have some 850's at home and I think a spare 2280 kicking around so may well look at that.

You will need to adapt the Team CRP front bumper to fit the Lancia, but it is not impossible; I did it on my own car before switching to the controversial TA-03RS re-release front unit. It did require some jury-rigging, but enough scrap metal and sufficiently-long screws can solve the problem! The issue is that the Team CRP bumper does not extend far enough from the chassis to clear the lower bumper of the Lancia shell. However, once fitted, it does pay homage to the original front bumper while offering superior protection. I would share my solution, but I am sure you can come up with a better one as mine placed a lot of shear stress on the screws and used an anodized limited-edition TRF part to hold everything in place!

Thanks for the heads up. I like solving problems like this, although my OCD will mean I completely over-engineer it and it will take weeks for me to be happy!

Your offer to trade for a vintage Lancia using the re-release almost tempted me into going for it... I am not sure how likely I am to part with mine at this point, but in all fairness mine could definitely benefit from a restoration and I have enough unique parts to build a second one - all I would need is a Subaru Brat or a Frog to do so ;)

I already have the re-re body and think I would prefer to modify that than drop £250 on the original body. I quite like messing around with hard-bodies. Subaru will cost £120 and I can sell the body and wheels and keep the tires for my SRBs. The side body mounts are a further £5, the bumper another £10 so this is not too expensive so far. The wheels however I am guessing will hurt!

If you do have wheels and tires that you are interested in selling / trading then do let me know.

thanks for all your input.

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What about some sort of adapter that screws into the 5 holes in the back of the wheels, but instead of a slot for a cross-pin, it has bores to hold 5x8mm bearings? These days it shouldn't be too hard to whip that up on a 3d printer... for someone who knows what they're doing, I mean... (i.e., not me.)

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