Old Madcap restoration and hybridation (many doubts, many words).

[Oblivious 38]

Hello everyone.

I would like to present, quite extendedly I´m afraid, my project of restoration/hybridation of a 25 years old Madcap. As you´ll see, after 20 years out, I´ve got plenty of doubts so please excuse me if this post is a bit too long and I ask too many things. Must say I started before knowing TC and now I regret having bought already a couple of wrong items. Murphy laws I guess.

Besides, I´m afraid purists won´t be very happy with me...

My shopping list and doubts:

Bought / (Needed) / Doubts:

• Screw pin bag

• Screw bag A

• (Screw bag

• (C parts)

• Madcap Front Upright set

• Astute Press Parts Bag

• Tamiya CVA short and mini shock sets. I bought them before knowing I could use the Press parts bag... Will they fit on Astute´s stays?

• (Front and rear steel upper arms: Astute, Super Astute or non Tamiya?)

• Madcap Rubber seals bearing kit, RC bearings.

• (ESC + extra motor. Lots of doubts Any orientation welcomed)

• Tamiya Sport Tuned Motor.

• 20/21 T pinion gear set

• (Astute universal shaft & cup) I´ve read that it´ll fit with Madcap´s rear arms and hubs. Is that so easy?

• (Astute superlight wheels)

• (Tires)

• Repro body and wing

• Repro Madcap decal

• (Paintings. Still making up my mind for the extra body and wing. The old one will be red and white again, no doubts about that one)

• Radio FS-GT3B + Receiver

• iMAX B6 Charger/Discharger

• (Batteries -Lipo or Nimh?)

I know I´ve made lots of questions already but I would like to extend a bit on some of them since, honestly, I´m terribly puzzled and I can´t make up my mind.

• ESC (brushed or brushless):

My first throught was on brushed motor ESCs. Anyhow I´ve seen some Astute with brushless motor and the gear box is the same, so... What do you think? I can always use the sport tuned motor with the old MSC when I feel nostalgic .

For brushed I´ve been looking at:

• Ethronix Probe ESC: NiCd/NiMh/Lipo/LiFe. 70A / 500A (peak). Low power auto-cut off. Temperature protection. 15 T limit. 4 settings for Reverse/Forward/Drag break.

• Tekin TT1091 Plenty of settings and 10T limit (which I don´t need) but only Lipos.

For brushless:

• Leopard ESC motor card combo (3000 or 3300 KV).

• Reventon Speed Passion 3500KV ESC (ESC, servo, motor, card).

- Gear ratio motor. With 20/21/23 pinion my ratio goes from 9,78 to 7,73 but I can´t use that info since I don´t find any motor specs so I don´t really know what I can go for. I know 2WD buggies need some torque but nothing else. Would 19T be ok for brushed or I need a higher T? What about brushless?

- Batteries: Lipo or NiMh? I´ve read that Lipos give more power but their storage is quite delicate and they “die” quite soon. I mean that they are good as long as they are fresh. My problem is that I won´t be running that much in the winter (Santiago is very rainy) so I may be throwing my money away with Lipos if I can´t use them. But no experience, I´ve only ran with NiCd.

- Tires. Now I feel quite stupid but I can´t even find suitable tires for the Madcap!! I want them for running the car so I´m not looking for vintage items. Ebay sellers are not very sure when answering me or not very specific with the specs so I need to ask you. What do I have to look for? I´ve seen narrow front tires but they´re bigger. Will current rear Tamiya (or non Tamiya) rear tires fit?

Well, this is it. If you´ve reached this point, thank you for reading (I hope it wasn´t too much). If you have any suggestions, orientation or critics (good or bad), please let me know. They will be very welcomed.

And I promise that as soon as I get started I´ll be posting some photos of the progress (with little text, hehe).

[Grastens 2795]

Looks like a good project so far!

I believe the Astute universals will fit the Madcap, as the two buggies are related.

Lightweight wheels may be difficult to come by; I have a pair of fronts with aftermarket CRP tires that I could offer up, but being from Canada the overseas shipping will most likely be slow... A last resort, then. I understand the rear wheels are 2.0", and Tamiya wide hybrid spike tires will fit. Front wheels appear to be 2.0" as well, but are of course much narrower.

A 19T brushed motor could run well on a 20T pinion, but I would not go much higher. As a reference, the Dynatech 01R in the Tamiya Astute is recommended to run a 19T/70T combination (pinion/spur), and that is listed as a 19T motor. Brushless motors will require a smaller pinion gear as they are more powerful than their brushed counterparts.

That being said, brushless motors are less maintenance-intensive than the best brushed motors. It may be worth trying one out.

Li-Po batteries are excellent, but if you are not yet comfortable with them, go with a Ni-MH battery. It would be best if your charger is both Ni-MH and Li-Po capable, as it makes a decision to switch in the future much easier

Best of luck with the restoration/hybridization; we look forward to seeing the process!

[Champ85 609]

For wheels/tires, I use these on my Madcap: http://www.carson-modelsport.com/en/products/accessories/tiresandrims110/produktdetails.htm?sArtNr=500900027

(alternative silver wheels: http://www.carson-modelsport.com/en/products/accessories/tiresandrims110/produktdetails.htm?sArtNr=500900028 )

I run my Madcap almost exclusively on asphalt/tarmac and these tires work well.

They were not very easy to get since Carson is a UK company and I Iive in the USA, but I found a place that would ship overseas for not too much money. You should have an easier time.

The Tamiya 51205 Astral front wheel with 51207 tire should fit, though it is thicker than the original stock dish wheel/tire.

Tamiya 51206 rear wheel and 53084 rear tire should fit.

Basically any wheels/tires for the DT-02 or DT-03 chassis should fit.

[Percymon 2184]

Schumacher CAT block or spike tyres are 2.0" fitment and are great on grass/dirt for the rear.

They offer narrower version for the front but you may want to look at a ribbed type design dependent upon where you run the car

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tyres/rc-car-categories/9960/996010&ManufacturerID=51&MSAttributeID[58]=713&MSAttributeID[63]=871

[Oblivious 38]

Looks like a good project so far!

I believe the Astute universals will fit the Madcap, as the two buggies are related.

Lightweight wheels may be difficult to come by; I have a pair of fronts with aftermarket CRP tires that I could offer up, but being from Canada the overseas shipping will most likely be slow... A last resort, then. I understand the rear wheels are 2.0", and Tamiya wide hybrid spike tires will fit. Front wheels appear to be 2.0" as well, but are of course much narrower.

A 19T brushed motor could run well on a 20T pinion, but I would not go much higher. As a reference, the Dynatech 01R in the Tamiya Astute is recommended to run a 19T/70T combination (pinion/spur), and that is listed as a 19T motor. Brushless motors will require a smaller pinion gear as they are more powerful than their brushed counterparts.

That being said, brushless motors are less maintenance-intensive than the best brushed motors. It may be worth trying one out.

Li-Po batteries are excellent, but if you are not yet comfortable with them, go with a Ni-MH battery. It would be best if your charger is both Ni-MH and Li-Po capable, as it makes a decision to switch in the future much easier

Best of luck with the restoration/hybridization; we look forward to seeing the process!

Thank you Grastens.

Lots of great info there!!

Madcap run 2,2 rear and 2 front with the original dish wheels (if I haven´t mistaken my measurements) but I think that now will be easier to find tires thanks to you guys. About that Astute front wheels... If they were just the rears we could make a deal, no doubt, but I´ve already found the front on ebay (in the same store where the universal shaft was so I´ll order them together). Guess that shipping from Canada might be more expensive than the wheels themselves and I don´t want to waste your time. Sorry about that one.

Much clearer the motor T-ratio issue now. Knowing that 19T goes with 19/70 I can make some numbers. What worries me about the brushless is that extra power in my old gearbox without slipper (they told me in a Spanish forum it could be a problem for vintage cars). Anyhow I don´t really mind the maintenance (I do like it indeed ). Somehow looks to me as if placing a brushless I would be betraying the vintage essence of the car but, on the other hand, it seems to be such fun! Still don´t know.

The iMax charger accepts Lipo, NiMh, NiCd, LiFe, Li-ion, Pb and Lead Acid (I don´t even know some of them ) with plenty of security stuff and things (data saving, LiPo balancing, bla, bla, bla...). 30$ + 9$ (including the converter and Tamiya plugs) on ebay. You may also find it on Hobbyking (along with the fake one!!!) if interested. As you say I think I´ll go fon NiMh and wait a bit for Lipos, yes.

Thank you again for your best wishes and for that word "hybridization", hehe. Nice to learn English as well (I´m afraid I did the direct translation from the Spanish "hibridación" ).

[Oblivious 38]

Sorry. If you want to see the link... http://www.ebay.es/itm/281036933113?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (It´s not an auction so I understand that can be linked).

Note the converter is for continental Europe, not quite sure if that could be a problem. But you can read largely the especs.

[z00ter 392]

Astute ujs fit fine on the madcap I have them on two of mine.

looks to be a good project there mate, will look forward to some pics.

[Oblivious 38]

For wheels/tires, I use these on my Madcap: http://www.carson-modelsport.com/en/products/accessories/tiresandrims110/produktdetails.htm?sArtNr=500900027

(alternative silver wheels: http://www.carson-modelsport.com/en/products/accessories/tiresandrims110/produktdetails.htm?sArtNr=500900028 )

I run my Madcap almost exclusively on asphalt/tarmac and these tires work well.

They were not very easy to get since Carson is a UK company and I Iive in the USA, but I found a place that would ship overseas for not too much money. You should have an easier time.

The Tamiya 51205 Astral front wheel with 51207 tire should fit, though it is thicker than the original stock dish wheel/tire.

Tamiya 51206 rear wheel and 53084 rear tire should fit.

Basically any wheels/tires for the DT-02 or DT-03 chassis should fit.

Thank you!

Just bought them in black!!! I was looking for something exactly like that. And thank you for the references, I´ll keep them in mind. It´s that easy when you know what you are looking for!!

Anyhow, I found a guy today that has this "big round spiked" tires for Madcap for a good price. I guess it´s not the better description but will show them along with the pics of the project on the Astute´s wheels if I ever find the rear.

Cheers

[Oblivious 38]

Schumacher CAT block or spike tyres are 2.0" fitment and are great on grass/dirt for the rear.

They offer narrower version for the front but you may want to look at a ribbed type design dependent upon where you run the car

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tyres/rc-car-categories/9960/996010&ManufacturerID=51&MSAttributeID[58]=713&MSAttributeID[63]=871

Thank you Percymon.

Saved on my "sellers" folder right now.

And excuse my english but what´s ribbed type design? Those with parallel lines along the tire? I guess it´s for good steering. Rib sounds to me as those for a bbq

[Oblivious 38]

Astute ujs fit fine on the madcap I have them on two of mine.

looks to be a good project there mate, will look forward to some pics.

Thank you z00ter. I hope it will end up well, my bank account is staring at me quite suspiciously these days...

But what´s ujs? Sorry again for my english.

[z00ter 392]

The universal shafts

[Oblivious 38]

Ok. Feeling quite stupid right now... But must say I could have bet on that (if you want to believe).

Ordering...

And cheers mate (by the way, I lived in London 13 years ago and can´t believe you still use that word "mate" Love it!)

[Fruitfly01 596]

Are you going to be posting photos?

[Champ85 609]

Thank you Percymon.

Saved on my "sellers" folder right now.

And excuse my english but what´s ribbed type design? Those with parallel lines along the tire? I guess it´s for good steering. Rib sounds to me as those for a bbq

Ribbed, for her pleasure. Wait.. wrong forum.

I think what Percy means for "ribbed" is like the front tires on the Wild One, which is what you were thinking already: http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tamiya-wild-one-off-roader/rc-car-products/369341

The tires have "ribs" or grooves like channels for gripping on soft surfaces like sand, etc. though they work fine on tarmac too.

[redzone 212]

Just a quick note too, lipo batteries tend to last a lot longer than nimh, you can put half a charge in them & they last ages in storage. I have some Yeah racing 3200's here that must be 4 years old now and they are still excellent. The turnigy hard case lipo packs from hobbyking I have also found to be excellent.

Main thing with lipos is not to over discharge them (easy when u have a modern esc with a 3v or 3.2v cutoff) And to charge them at the correct rate. But then the turnigy nano tech lipos can be charged at crazy high rates that most chargers can't even achieve! Just stock with what the manufacturer recommends anyway

[Oblivious 38]

Are you going to be posting photos?

Hi again Fruitfly01.

Yes, I promised and I will but the only stuff that have yet arrived are just a couple of screw bags and the uprights (not very exciting). And I´ve been quite busy to be honest. But just to please you here are some pics of its current state (with horrible body paint look and 25 years old inside).

Plenty of job to do:

You will understand why I needed screw bags...

[Oblivious 38]

Ribbed, for her pleasure. Wait.. wrong forum.

I think what Percy means for "ribbed" is like the front tires on the Wild One, which is what you were thinking already: http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tamiya-wild-one-off-roader/rc-car-products/369341

The tires have "ribs" or grooves like channels for gripping on soft surfaces like sand, etc. though they work fine on tarmac too.

Thank you Champ85. "Costilleteadas" in Spanish sounds quite funny for a tire . We take food very seriously.

[Fruitfly01 596]

That looks like a fairly neat, clean and tidy platform from which to start your project. I've seen Madcaps in far worse states for 25 years old.

With a bit of a touch up, the body looks fine for a runner/basher, but it's really the old plastics you need to worry about. To be honest the plastic used on the Madcap is quite hardy and long lived, but the usual spots to look for are front and back of chassis - usually the odd crack where the front bulk head and gearbox/rear arms attach, the rear arm carriers, and the front uprights can also be weak spots. The front shock towers often split too.

Once you've fully stripped it down, you'll see what really needs doing, or which parts need replacing.

I shall enjoy watching you restore this much loved buggy.

[Oblivious 38]

Just a quick note too, lipo batteries tend to last a lot longer than nimh, you can put half a charge in them & they last ages in storage. I have some Yeah racing 3200's here that must be 4 years old now and they are still excellent. The turnigy hard case lipo packs from hobbyking I have also found to be excellent.

Main thing with lipos is not to over discharge them (easy when u have a modern esc with a 3v or 3.2v cutoff) And to charge them at the correct rate. But then the turnigy nano tech lipos can be charged at crazy high rates that most chargers can't even achieve! Just stock with what the manufacturer recommends anyway

Thank you redzone for that note .

Making me change my mind now. The brushed ESC I was considering has this 6v cutoff, though, which I find a bit disproportionated. No adjustments.

In hobbyking I´ve seen now this turnigy 4000mAh hard cased (which I´ve read is a convenient point with Lipos) but not sure if it would fit well into the rounded Madcap´s battery "box". The battery is squared and 135x45x21 mm but I guess that you also have Tamiyas with the same box as mine (50x27mm) and similar batteries. Show a pic just in case:

Sorry about the kiddish queries but it´s been a long time out.

[Oblivious 38]

That looks like a fairly neat, clean and tidy platform from which to start your project. I've seen Madcaps in far worse states for 25 years old.

With a bit of a touch up, the body looks fine for a runner/basher, but it's really the old plastics you need to worry about. To be honest the plastic used on the Madcap is quite hardy and long lived, but the usual spots to look for are front and back of chassis - usually the odd crack where the front bulk head and gearbox/rear arms attach, the rear arm carriers, and the front uprights can also be weak spots. The front shock towers often split too.

Once you've fully stripped it down, you'll see what really needs doing, or which parts need replacing.

I shall enjoy watching you restore this much loved buggy.

Thank you Fruitfly01.

I think I will wait until the chassis breaks ( ) but will be changing the four arms, the uprights and placing Astute´s shock towers. But I think I´ll need to learn how to put the new towers, the shocks and arms together with the chassis on the way . I´ve been reading member Kontemax posts about Astute and Super Astute hybridization with Madcaps spares but I need to do the opposite direction and I get puzzled with technical language quite easily . If I feel too lost I might even bother him directly, hehe. Hope the common latin background helps with him .

Thank you again and hope I will receive tons of things this week and considering that next one I´m off... More pics .

Cheers.

[Fruitfly01 596]

Max has some good info, that's for sure and his car is good. But it is more Astute with Madcap and home made parts thrown into the mix. I think the car started as a Madcap, but Max went all the way with a chassis conversion/replacement. I'm sure he will post here soon.

For me, the very essence of the Madcap is the plastic tub chassis. It is the single biggest thing that differentiates it from the Astute and keeps the cars' identity, once the body is removed. Both cars are very interchangeable with each other, but once the plastic chassis is swapped for a FRP/carbon pan, I no longer see Madcap, I see Astute.

My own Madcap retains the chassis, lower arms, steering, and few other bits true to the Madcap, but almost everything else comes from an Astute, Super Astute, and other buggies where generic items are useful.

The Madcap lower arms are good and I believe they are stronger than the Astute Items. You could go for Super Astute arms, but be prepared to modify them as they not quite a direct fit. They are also very rare and expensive. I'd stick with the original Madcap items.

Whilst young, the front uprights are good to use too. It's just when the get too old, they become brittle and the top mounting can sometimes fall apart. A similar thing can happen with the rear arm carriers once old enough. Strong when new and young though.

Most, if not all of the Astute front end will not directly fit on the Madcap without modification. The knuckles are of an odd design on the Astute and are too big on the Super Astute. They use 5mm ball studs and connectors, whereas the Madcap uses 4mm. The same goes for the steering bellcranks. Same principles, different designs.

It's all doable, and has been done by other members of the forum. Hopefully they will all chime in and offer advice if or when needed.

If it's ok with you, I'll post a couple of pictures of my own efforts. I don't want to spam up your thread though, so with permission only.

Tony

[Oblivious 38]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, do it!!!! And don´t consider this my thread, it´s just a cry out for help!! (I hope that means what I intended).

When I said I want to change the four lower arms and uprights I meant Madcap´s (cos they´re old). I agree with you, I want to keep most of the Madcap but just thought it would be a good idea to change for Astute´s towers since I was planning to change the old plastic ones anyway (I saw it was doable and decided to try it).

But I´m lost, man. There are thousands of pieces, references, numbers, etc. out there and I don´t really know what to use . My idea was to take some upper arms suitable for the car and place them where needed (but it´s not that easy!!! ). I don´t really mind using non Tamiya for that bit. I just need to know what to use. Turnbuckles, rods, "double who knows what"... It´s all new for me (and I speak Spanish!)

Your help would be much appreciated (I insist). I´m new here, I just don´t know who to ask...

Mikel.

[Oblivious 38]

I am looking for something like this but with the correct shafts length:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/111299779737?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

The issue is that sellers work with standard references and are never sure when mixing different models parts. Or I haven´t found the correct ebayer yet.

[Fruitfly01 596]

I bought some of those for the long arms so I could modify my Mad Fighter steering. The shorter ones may end up on my Madcap. At the moment it has a mix of Astute and Terra Scorcher upper arms, I believe.

Dyna Storm turnbuckles may be a better option if the DT03 ones do not fit.

[Thommo 1217]

I just got one of those DT03 turnbuckle sets and refitted the front ones and tie rods on my 540 spec Astute. Worked great!