Anybody else miss MSCs?

[Saito2 6686]

I know this is going to sound crazy to most folks, but part of me misses mechanical speed controllers. Yes, I totally agree ESCs are better in almost every way but still... there's a certain vintage charm MSCs have that bring me back to my youth. It brings back old driving techniques not have brakes to bail you out if you go too hot into a turn. Those hot resistors with their metal shields take me back (caution hot! lol). Just the simple mechanical part of it without the mystery of what goes on in that little ESC box is fun to watch. Best of all, none of that ESC "sqeeeeeeee" noise at low speed. I know I'm crazy and probably on my own with this one .

[waterbok 1282]

Not that crazy got several vintage runner with msc, XB neo TF, Vanquish, 2 TA SRT, Willy M38 swb & lwb and a blackfoot

[njmlondon 570]

I hate the low speed "squeeeeee".

Am building an old ORV at the moment and have been mulling over msc'ing it up.

You are not alone!

[markbt73 5316]

For the most part... yeah. You're crazy.

But... over the weekend, I was setting up a "winter basher" (a very battered re-re Lunchbox), and trying to decide on electronics. I haven't had good luck with balloons or baggies; they always seem to just trap the water in. So I went with some old electronics that have gotten wet before and survived: a Traxxas XL-1 ESC and a 27mhz receiver. But for a little while, I was considering "downgrading" it to an old MSC, just for the reliability. Those things don't seem to care if they get wet.

My Blackfoot uses its original MSC, and you're right, it is a different style of driving. Harder, in some ways, and certainly less precise control. I wouldn't want all my cars to have them, but I'm glad I still have one.

[Terz1 745]

My vintage clod is msc. I see all these amazing things people do to their clods and an msc is the simplest thing in the world to replace but it's not going anywhere, like everything else on it its staying old school. It is the only rc I've got that is msc but it's never caused any trouble so it's staying put along with the 27 mhz receiver .

[Hibernaculum 933]

Kids these days with their "squeee"...

I don't miss MSCs. Because they've never gone away

• I do not own a single ESC anymore
• I own nothing but vintage models
• Every model I build, restore or run - I use an MSC
• I have a drawer filled with new in packet vintage MSCs
• I probably buy about 6 more vintage MSCs per year, to add to my spares vault
• I even kept a few old, worn MSCs from my childhood, that served me well (including one repaired by my late Dad)
• You'll never see a photo of an ESC on my website
  

Maybe I never drove my cars hard enough, but I never really had issues with MSCs back in the day either. Sure they'd wear out after a while...But here's the thing. If you don't enjoy tinkering with your Tamiya (or other) hobby model, why have one?

As a kid, it was fun to get the occasional spare part for my car. It actually felt special - going into the hobby shop, and finding the exact item for your model. A new box of tyres, a new MSC, some new bearings.
Sometimes they even came in beautiful boxes that just showed the care and consistent-theming that Tamiya applied to their cars - from the kits to the parts.

Plus, many Tamiya spare parts were named after the car they suited. The parts felt special. The parts still had basic product numbers, but it wasn't only about bland product numbers and codes and chassis numbers.

Tamiya's post-vintage-era chassis and parts numbering systems make their production lines more efficient. But I don't care about the efficiency of their production lines.
I liked buying a packet with "Hornet speed controller" on it, and a little icon of a Hornet

It was little things like that, that made Tamiya iconic, because they made owning a Tamiya feel special. And it was part of the innocence of the age.
And to this day, that's the only era of Tamiya I truly enjoy.

H.

[Hibernaculum 933]

(PS. I would love to know which browser I should be using on this forum, such that formatted posts don't randomly convert to HTML during an edit )

[beefmuffin 1156]

I'm glad I have MSCs on all my vintage shelfers, and on a couple of runners... but by and large I don't miss them for any practical reasons. Resistor burns. Going haywire and crashing into a ditch or running after it when the battery got too low. Sometimes even if the battery was fine the MSC servo would just get stuck in gear and... ditch, running, etc.

So... yeah, glad I can look at one whenever I want but very glad I don't have to...

[Theibault 1535]

Nope.

[Nitomor 2122]

Not particularly, I miss the no rigid turn limit and water resistance but they're a liability where kids are concerned. I don't miss full power take offs when you connect a fresh battery after it jammed on max power when it last ran out, smoking boards, cracked resistors, burned fingers, greasing up and cleaning all the grit off the contacts, worn out contacts etc etc. I have a couple of fighter buggies still running them but I've been delighted since finding the HPI £25 esc which is waterproof, lipo compatible and goes to 12T limit. I also like the brake function which works without ripping the gearbox to bits. I don't mind the low speed whine, its affirmation/feedback of power about to be put through the motor and a sort of potential energy reminder of what is to be unleashed, a bit like pulling back an elastic band or a jet engine spooling up!

[IBIFTKH 1369]

What he said ^

[Saito2 6686]

Odd as it sounds, MSCs were one one those things (among many) that taught me to respect machinery and equipment as a kid. You did have to be wary of them and have your wits about you (turning on the transmitter first and last etc.) I never had an issue with Tamiya ones. And yes Hib, I liked going to the hobby shop and buying a Hornet or Wild One speed controller. As I remember they were the ones touted for having the BEC connector. I could always "revive" a worn Tamiya MSC. Now other brands like Marui... eh, not so much. We used to call them spot welder specials. I totally agree that for practical purposes, the ESC is better.

[MadInventor 3884]

MSCs didn't have a rated voltage or current limit ......

[Hibernaculum 933]

And yes Hib, I liked going to the hobby shop and buying a Hornet or Wild One speed controller. As I remember they were the ones touted for having the BEC connector. I could always "revive" a worn Tamiya MSC. Now other brands like Marui... eh, not so much. We used to call them spot welder specials. I totally agree that for practical purposes, the ESC is better.

Funny you mention Marui. I just opened a NIP Marui Hunter MSC a moment ago for a resto. And incidentally, the moving wiper component is fully sealed in a plastic casing - which is nothing if not more sophisticated than any exposed Tamiya MSC

Anyway - one more thing I will say is that I am surprised that on a forum called "Tamiyaclub - Vintage discussions", that anyone should feel that they sound crazy, around a topic related to using actual vintage original parts in vintage cars.

Like you said Saito: "I know I'm crazy..." - what? for appreciating vintage parts on vintage cars? Not in the least bit, my friend

A vintage R/C car isn't even "100% vintage", unless it uses all vintage parts. And that includes using an MSC (if that's what the original had). MSCs were made by Tamiya. They were integral to early car designs (witness the Hotshot - the reissue even had to fake the resistors just to try to give the car the same 'look' ). As mentioned, MSCs even affected performance. They were part of the era. And they were just another part in the kit, like all other parts. People are free to replace them with ESCs to their heart's content, but the resulting car won't be 100% vintage.

H.

[Nitomor 2122]

MSCs didn't have a rated voltage or current limit ......

Until the solder melted on the wires to the circuit board lol or arcing burnt a hole through it! I do like the way with an msc you can visually appreciate how it works and learn some early respect of what not to do! Makes for a more responsible kid. I remember thinking I was quite clever when I desperately needed to recharge my battery but the fuse on my Ripmax charger kept blowing, we'd run out of fuses so I looked at the fuse and thought, ha, it's just a piece of metal (borrowing a nail from fathers tool boxes). It worked quite well and I didn't burn the house down miraculously...a little knowledge and all that!

[Terz1 745]

I've been delighted since finding the HPI £25 esc which is waterproof, lipo compatible and goes to 12T limit. I also like the brake function which works without ripping the gearbox to bits.

Which model hpi esc is this nito? My esc of choice at the mo is the quic-run 1060 which does all of the above. Great little esc. I'd like my fleet fitted with all the same esc and you seem impressed by that hpi one. I might have to give it a go.

[Nitomor 2122]

This little baby;

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-sc-3swp-waterproof-electronic-speed-control/rc-car-products/384395

There's a V2 out now, same price but a little smaller...

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-sc-3swp2-waterproof-electronic-speed-control/rc-car-products/393139

I don't think it looks as nice because I'm a tart and like the black/red wires only, lol, so I'm still buying the V1 version which is still available and fits nicely in the Bruiser electronics box!

[Nitomor 2122]

Just looked at the Quicrun 1060, looks exactly the same as the V2 above but with a red heat sink and about £7 cheaper!

[markbt73 5316]

I think "if it doesn't have a mechanical speed control, it isn't vintage" is a little strict, personally. After all, ESCs were available back then, just expensive. But plenty of people, especially racers, built new kits and left items like plastic bearings and MSCs in the box, even in the 80s.

Case in point: my Kyosho Optima. From the condition it was in when I bought it, it was clearly someone's race car. It already had bearings, and a couple of "Option House" upgrades on it, and no thread marks in the MSC servo mounting holes. Which isn't surprising; these MSCs were terrible, and nearly everyone replaced them with an electronic speed control (or a Tamiya MSC). So, when I finally get aorund to finishing it, I plan to use a Novak 4 ESC, which would have been a typical uprgade from the time. Still vintage, maybe not as-it-came-from-Kyosho "correct," but an accurate representation of how that car would have been set up in its day. I wouldn't drop a modern high-frequency or brushless ESC in it, but I don't feel I'm betraying the car by using a period-correct ESC.

[94eg! 834]

MSCs didn't have a rated voltage or current limit ......

LoL I don't know if you've ever tried running a mod motor on an MSC, but it's fail-tastic. Talk about cracked resistors and worn contacts. Not to mention short runtimes and slow performance.

MSCs are better off on the shelf.

[MadInventor 3884]

Yeah, I used an MSC in a Mad bull running 12V Nimh on a 14 double motor.(8 cells mounted in the standard battery location, and 2 mounted on the front bumper to help keep the front wheels on the ground). I replaced the stock resistor with 2 enclosed in finned heatsinks, and replaced all the wires with silver nickel wire. It worked fine for doing high speed runs, but I did have to lock the diff to stop wheelspin in 1st and 2nd. My original comment was tongue in cheek, I only use an MSC now for controlling the turret turning gearbox in one of my vintage king tigers. All the stuff I use now has ESCs, and no, I don't miss MSCs at all.

[whahooo 465]

I like the look of MSCs and double Servos.

But i like to use ESCs in my runners only and since all my Models are actual runners all of them (exept my orig. Clod) have ESCs build in.

In the past i made a few bad expieriences with MSCs, so i have learned to stay away from running them.

But like i said, i love the Looks of them.

PS: I have to mention taht in my youth it was already normal/adviced to upgrade to the insanly expensive ESCs (they did cost between € 100,- to 150,- each)

[94eg! 834]

I suppose you would be hard-pressed to make this thing look remotely as cool with an ESC as it does here:

[Champ85 609]

After having a MSC break and cause a short circuit that destroyed the wires and almost melted a battery pack, no I do not miss MSCs.

I also do not miss the 3 speed forward, 1 speed reverse with no in-between.

(I'm looking at you, Tamiya Super Champ Racing MSC).

[Hibernaculum 933]

I think "if it doesn't have a mechanical speed control, it isn't vintage" is a little strict, personally. After all, ESCs were available back then, just expensive.

I knew after I went to bed, that my line "A vintage R/C car isn't even "100% vintage", unless it uses all vintage parts. And that includes using an MSC (if that's what the original had)." didn't hold water if using a period-correct ESC, and that someone would pick me up on it So you're perfectly correct mark. Period correct ESCs do maintain the "vintage" - except in cases where no suitable ESCs existed (very early cars). (A better catch-all from me, would have been to say vintage cars aren't 100% original unless they use the MSC they originally came with).

Anyway, it's funny to hear so many people insist on ESCs for vintage running. I can understand if you are running cars hard, for long periods, regularly, or perhaps in races.

Other than that though...what about the fun of just having the vintage vehicle occasionally around on your lawn?

Perhaps I'm alone then, in how I run, or the expectations I have. One example - I occasionally blast a Bearhawk up and down my driveway (about 100m long). Never had an ESC in it. The car actually has the same MSC and resistor as came in the kit, 23 years ago. Still works perfectly. I used to drive this car around a home-made track kicking up heavy dust, in summer, day after day back in the 1990s. Same car. Never had an issue. Occasional wipe-down, and off it goes again.

My views on MSCs also relate to another couple of perspectives (about life and the universe)...

1) If running cars in the 1980s was such an inconvenience due to MSCs, how did we all become such fans of kit-based R/C cars? Didn't we have fun childhoods? MSCs were apparently fine for a lot of running back in the day (just not competition). And if that was untrue, then either you ran your cars extra hard. Or you also now think life would be awful without a mobile phone and ATM card. And while I agree it would be (!) the strange thing is, nobody really thought so before those technologies came along. You just lived your life around life's minor limitations. Like cleaning an MSC. Withdrawing cash for the weekend on fridays. Or not being in-contact, on-call, to every friend you've ever had, 24/7.

2) This relates to how people often avoid running vintage cars and only keep them as shelfers... but I take the view that "you only live once". Preserving cars MSCs/Cars/whatever is very worthy. But if you secretly want to run them with old-school equipment, then I say: run them. Or else you'll wake up aged 80 one day and realize it's too late to just enjoy them for what they were, warts and all.

Plus it's not like all MSCs are in short supply. For some vintage models, there are literally tons still out there. For others, some are rare, but can still be found periodically.