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buddhahat

Restoring Nissan Kingcab - battery question

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I pulled my old Nissan Kingcab out from the loft to show my son recently. We only seem to be able to get about 5mins of battery out of it before it's too low on power to drive. The batteries aren't particularly old. One's a 1500 and the other's a 3200. Both seem to last about 5 mins, although the 3200 can take a further 15 - 20 mins to totally discharge (is that normal?)

Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what needs replacing to get this running for longer? The batteries aren't brand new - one is borrowed so I can't vouch for its age, but the 1500 is only about 5 years old so I should get more than 5 mins out of it, right? These batteries have been sat idle for years though, admittedly.

Is it worth perhaps replacing the motor, or maybe I should buy another new battery first?

Any advice much appreciated - thank you!

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Get a decent charger. It will tell you whether the batteries are charging to their full capacity and give the most performance from them.

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Get a decent charger. It will tell you whether the batteries are charging to their full capacity and give the most performance from them.

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are you still running the 'old' mechanical speed controller or a modern electronic ESC?

5 years is enough to kill a NiMh if it wasnt used/charged for that time, it will take some re and dis charges to get it back to life if it will at all.

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1500 mAh? 5 minutes for these batteries are normal.
I remember my first battery with silvercan discharged in 5 to 8 minutes but the battery was new. It was the normal discharging time.
Probably your 1500 should last 10 minutes but maybe it is old or charged bad.
The first thing to do is control the King Cab electrics and electronics. If it has the msc you need the esc, you will have more minutes of fun. Check the wires, use new ones, thicker silicon wires with gold plated connection. Use a ball beared motor. If you have a silvercan, clean the brushes and oil the bushings.
Frictions are another big problem for the battery life. Replace all the bushings of the model with new ball bearings. If your model is in good shape it will be more efficient.
At this point you can buy a better charger.

When you will do all of this and your battery continues to discharge too faster, well, change the battery with a better one.

Max

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Hi thanks all for the info. I'm really a newbie to all this so a lot to digest here but useful. I think I will try charging/discharging the battery a few more times to see if it picks up.

I should have said that I really don't want to invest a lot in this car - was just hoping to get it going for 15 mins or so for the kids to play with. The 'restoring' part of the title was a bit misleading although was curious if a new motor (I.e minimal investment) might spruce things up. Sounds like I'd be better off replacing quite a bit in reality but I will mull this info over (certainly kontemax's post) and may be back with further questions!

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And yes it does have the old msc. Out if curiosity, how much are esc's and is there a particular type people would recommend?

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The msc is a big problem. All the current you don't use to spin the motor is drained by the resistor. Touch it and you will understand where all the current goes. If you have a silvercan, an esc for brushed motors is what you need but other mates can help you better than me on this choice.

And probably your wires are 30 years old, it's time to replace them with new and modern ones.

Max

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thisone should do the trick, QuicRun-WP-1625

You can find it on ebay, is in use with several TC members ad is even waterproof.

check the rear wheelhubs and the front wheels if you can see ballbearings or copper friction ones

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Thanks again guys!

thisone should do the trick, QuicRun-WP-1625

You can find it on ebay, is in use with several TC members ad is even waterproof.

check the rear wheelhubs and the front wheels if you can see ballbearings or copper friction ones

I checked that esc out. It says it's suitable for 1/16 and 1/18 models, yet isn't the Kingcab 1/10? Would it fit properly?

As I said, I'm clueless about all this and about mechanics and electronics in general!

If I replaced the msc with an esc, what else would I need to change (bare minimum for it to run)? Would I need a new receiver and transmitter? The receiver is an Acoms 2 channel thing with connections that run from the battery and to the two servos.

Would I need new servos?

Finally, could anyone kindly explain what 'brushed' means please? That quicrun esc is brushed and I see a lot of talk about brushed vs brushless motors. Just wondering what that means and whether I'd need a compatible motor with that esc.

Thanks for your help and patience folks!

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Oooops my wrong, your so right, thats the 'light' version.

this is the right one, Quicrun Wp-1060.

You should be able to use your old Transmitter and Receiver aswell as the steering servo, you wont need the servo that is attached to the MSC.

This is a setup of steering servo, receiver and esc in my car. same chassis as yours.

DSC01768.jpg

brushed is your standard tamiya 'silver' motor, brushless is newer you would need both an esc and motor for that.

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Ok i'am no expert so this is the best way to explain the difference between motor types

http://electronicdesign.com/electromechanical/what-s-difference-between-brush-dc-and-brushless-dc-motors

A MSC is now very old tech . They never where very efficient and added to the drain on the battery . You can replace any MSC with a modern ESC . without changing any other components . Simply remove the MSC, its servo and its wiring . The new ESC will come with instructions but basically you connect up your battery , and throttle channel from your receiver to the to the ESC . Its as easy as that . Any more questions feel free to ask .

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The msc were old tech in the 80ies eheheh!

I did hate them at that time but I had no money to buy an esc.

At the end I would like to ask you what you wanna do with your King Cab.
The King Cab is a very collectible model and it has its issues. I'm not sure is it's a good idea to use it for the children.
May be you should switch to some ready to run modern model, it's easier and cheaper in my opinion.
Having a King Cab without deal with all the issues it has is a non sense. Because it could be frustrating, you solve a problem and find another one. If you decide to restore or use it you should make a deep resto project to solve all its problems.

Max

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Waterbok - thanks for the photo. That is great - really helpful! Out of curiosity, do you put the Kingcab body on that chassis, or something else?

Thanks BromVW for the info about brushed/brushless. Much appreciated.

Kontemax, you make some sensible points and thanks for your advice. I have actually bought a ready-to-run Maverick Ion for my son so that base is covered! It then prompted me to buy a Tamtech Frog for myself as I was curious about these smaller cars. I've been amazed at the improved battery life, plus these small scale cars are so fun to drive!

Anyway all the above prompted me to dig out my old Kingcab. I guess part of me is curious about getting more 'hands on'. I can't afford to buy a new build-from-scratch project at the moment but thought I might tinker with the Kingcab to see if I can improve its performance. You're right - one fix will probably lead to another problem and these things can turn into money pits. Fitting the ESC might be a reasonably cheap thing to try at first though. And if I get into it, maybe I can restore other parts bit by bit!

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The best you can do is to point to the efficiency on the King Cab.

Don't try to have speed or more acceleration than the mabuchi can give you because you will enter into an inferno with the weak King Cab differential.

The best you can do cheaply is:

- modern esc

- ball bearings all around included into the gearbox

- modern gauged wires all around

- gold plated connectors

- modern tires

- steel pinion gear.

Maybe a 5.5 kilos servo will give you some more satisfaction.

Max

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The best you can do is to point to the efficiency on the King Cab.

Don't try to have speed or more acceleration than the mabuchi can give you because you will enter into an inferno with the weak King Cab differential.

The best you can do cheaply is:

- modern esc

- ball bearings all around included into the gearbox

- modern gauged wires all around

- gold plated connectors

- modern tires

- steel pinion gear.

Maybe a 5.5 kilos servo will give you some more satisfaction.

Max

I agree with Max . The only other thing i would change are the tires . The Tamiya ones wear quickly and don't offer much grip . i've found these to be a good durable replacement .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proline-Dirt-Hawg-Truck-Tyres-1-10-PL1070-/281419205286?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

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Thanks bromvw.

Max - now your earlier post has got me thinking. I hadn't considered that the Kingcab might be collectible, especially one that's not working brilliantly like mine. However, looking at ebay it seems as if, even old and a little beaten up, the Kingcab doesn't fetch a bad price for parts. Maybe it might be more sensible ultimately to sell and invest in a new build, which would give me the 'hands on' satisfaction with less of the frustration and expense of replacing parts.

One last question therefore: If I bought a new car I'd probably go for 4wd. What model (that's not too expensive) would folks here recommend? Is the Dark Impact any good? Or the re released Hotshot (although probably a bit over budget for me)?

There's certainly a lot to consider here and I appreciate everyone's input - thank you! Once I've made a decision on whether to restore the Kingcab or buy a new rc, I'll post back.

Best,

Ben

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If your aim is to run the car quite vigorously, then yes, selling it to someone who would enjoy it as a collectible and using the proceeds to buy yourself an up-to-date runner would be a very good idea.

The Dark Impact and re-re Hotshot both have their pros and cons, and depending on what you want from the vehicle, both (or neither) may be suitable.

What sort of running would you like to do? What sort of terrain? Do you see yourself racing competitively, or driving for fun? Do you enjoy tinkering, or do you want something that just keeps going with minimal adjustment and maintenance? Do you like the vintage look, or would you prefer something modern? Do you want a buggy, a truck or aren't you fussed?

Let us know more about what you want from the car, and we'd be very happy to recommend suitable models for you to consider.

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As XV says its all down to what you want from it . Scale looks ? Buggy ? . Racer ? . Give us more info and we can help narrow the choices down

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Thanks XVPilot and BromVW.

I'd be running the car for fun with my son so it would get bashed about a bit most likely, probably on a mixture of road, paving slabs and a bit of off road too. I'd be after a buggy.

I like the vintage Tamiya buggies, hence my interest in the Hotshot, but appreciate that limits my options a bit. I initially said 4wd but am not rigid about that. I guess 4wd would be preferable.

As for the tinkering. I like the idea of building it myself but, as you can probably tell from this thread, I'm pretty clueless with the technical side of things, so minimal adjustment once built would be preferable for me.

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Mine is not the King Cab, I got the Hilux with a pretty bad paintjob :huh:

Here is an old picture, had an mixture of white, red and pink rims :blink:

hilux2.JPG

Currently restoring it, did an upgrade of the steering this weekend, avante steering arms with ballbearings, that removes most of the sloppyness.

IMG_20141122_195008719%255B1%255D.jpg

Motorwise I wise thinking to run it with an 35T or maybe even an 45T (more T slower motor, tamiya silvermotor has 27T)

depending how old your kids are you could do the same with there new cars, takes out some of the speed (aka less damages) and will provide longer runtime.

you can get simple 'slow' 540 motors from rc4wd that cost around 10$

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Depending on the age of your son i would consider a Mad Bull . Tough , reliable , able to cope on almost all surfaces and cheap . Easy to build by a novice just by following the manual - can't really go wrong given the quality of Tamiya's instructions .

Replace the plastic bushes with ball bearings and use a steel pinion, add a metal motor mount and it should give you good use for many years .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tamiya-58205-Mad-Bull-Radio-Control-RC-Kit-with-Tamiya-ESC-Unit-Car-/161146217357?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item258510238d

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAMIYA-58205-Mad-Bull-Madbull-Bearing-Kit-COMPLETE-10-Bearings-/251719280525?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&var=&hash=item3a9ba3678d

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEX40&P=SM

http://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-ta01013bu-alum-modified-motor-mount-1621t-ta01ta02-p-27517.html?cPath=595_744_754

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Hmm, let's see...

Two approaches present themselves given your needs and your appreciation of vintage Tamiya: you could consider trading the King Cab for a different classic that can be restored more easily and cheaply to make a tough and reliable runner, or you could sell it and put the money towards the purchase of a new model that pays homage to a classic.

If you fancy going the restoration route, how about a DF01? They are old enough to be considered classics in terms of qualifying for entry into classic RC meets such as the A1 Revival meeting, but they are not so rare as to command ridiculous prices, and parts are still easily available for them. Good used examples come up on EBay quite regularly.

They have a couple of minor issues in stock form, but these are easily rectified, and once this is done, they make solid and reliable runners that can handle quite a bit of abuse. I restored one for the A1 Revival meeting. See link for more info:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73379

In terms of new builds that pay homage to the classics, you have quite a few options in terms of 2WD buggies:

The DT01 chassis as used by the Mad Bull recommended by bromvw is very rugged and ideal for rigorous use on a variety of terrain. The Mad Bull bodyshell is a mildly-reworked version of that used on the Grasshopper II, so if you fit a Mad Bull shell and standard buggy wheels and tyres to a DT01, you have a very tough runner with classic looks. A fellow forum member is building one now, documenting his progress in this thread:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74850

The Rising Fighter is another rugged, simple model that might suit your needs. Based on a reinforced Super Hornet chassis, with a reworked Super Hornet shell and Bear Hawk wing, it combines old-school looks with the ruggedness and easy parts availability of a new car. And if you want it to look like a true classic, you can fit it with a Super Hornet shell, as done by a forum member in this thread:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72155

Yet another modern reliable 2wd buggy that pays homage to a classic is the DT02 Holiday Buggy 2010. Or if a Mayer's Manx is your idea of a stylish beach buggy, there is also the DT02 Sand Rover. Here is a thread that shows how a DT02 Holiday Buggy goes together:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68879

The Sand Rover is the same, apart from the shell.

The recently-released DT03 Neo Fighter a.k.a. Neo Frog is, as the name suggests, a new buggy that pays homage to The Frog. Excellent value and surprisingly race-capable, it might be worth considering. Here is a thread about one belonging to another forum member:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74050&hl=%2Bneo+%2Bfrog

In terms of 4WD buggies that are of modern design but pay homage to the classics, the choice is somewhat limited. There is the TT02B Neo Scorcher, which sort-of pays homage to the Terra Scorcher of old, but apart from similar decals, they don't look much alike. That said, the TT02B is good value, quite well-regarded as an entry-level chassis, and has many upgrade options, so it may be worth a look. Here is a thread showing a TT02B being built by a rookie:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74251&hl=tt02b#entry556101

The DF03 Avante Mk II is perhaps another option. Purists don't like it, and some have gone as far as to call it a smear on the Avante name, but others appreciate it for what it is - a relatively modern midrange buggy with looks inspired by a classic. Here is a thread in which one is restored:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72976&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

There is also the DF02 Aero Avante, but that is inspired by the Mini 4WD car of the same name, and has very little in common with the RC classic, so it would probably not appeal. Just in case it does though, here is a link to a thread about the release of a Red Metallic Special version:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72814&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

Then there is always the possibility of getting that vintage look by placing a classic bodyshell on a modern chassis, or painting a modern car in a classic colour scheme. Here is a thread dealing with such an approach:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55435&hl

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Beware about high turns motors because it's real they have low rpm but they are plenty of torque and they can damage the fragile mechanics of the King Cab.

Max

Motorwise I wise thinking to run it with an 35T or maybe even an 45T (more T slower motor, tamiya silvermotor has 27T)

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