Back into RC

[Bubbleboy 6]

I love fishing. So much so my wife says I have a problem. But in winter, I can't stare down a hole in the ice....that's mind numbingly boring. So to fill the time this year I've decided to get back into RC.

I was introduced to Tamiya back in 1982 in grade 7 while reading Model Airplane News. A Super Champ was under the Christmas tree that year and RC stuck with me for about a decade. Extremely fond memories of the hobby. I think it was over a dozen cars later, none of which I unfortunately didn't keep.

As started with an SRB, I thought why not start there again. I recently acquired a MK1 Rough Rider while on business in Calgary. It's in quite decent shape. There will be some parts which need replacing, and quite a bit of work to restore the original body. I quite enjoy the mechanical end of things, but prep and paint isn't one of them, so I may farm that out.

This will eventually become a shelf queen and while capable, will never be run once completed. Hopefully an original Sand Scortcher and Super Champ will accompany the RR.

A few questions for everyone...what are the chances of finding an original black bumper. I really want to stay away from a re-release. Where is a good source for new decals. I received some, but the quality of the reproduction is awful. Can anyone suggest a good source for original Tamiya parts other than EBay, and the odd post in RC forums?

And for the pics...

Thanks everyone!

Adam

[Dojo Dave 889]

Hey Adam, welcome back..... to The hobby. I was the same as you started with my child hood rc except mine was a wild willy. There are a bunch of die hard SRB guys on here that im sure can help you source what you need. Thats a tidy one you have. Good luck, perhaps post what you need in the wanted list on here.

[mongoose1983 3335]

Welcome to TC. That's a nice specimen you have there. Seems to be in very good conditions. Keep an eye here and also check TC's main page trade section. Or if you post a wanted ad here in the forums you might get some replies.

[Hibernaculum 933]

Bubbleboy, on 04 Oct 2015 - 2:18 PM, said:

A few questions for everyone...what are the chances of finding an original black bumper. I really want to stay away from a re-release. Where is a good source for new decals. I received some, but the quality of the reproduction is awful. Can anyone suggest a good source for original Tamiya parts other than EBay, and the odd post in RC forums?

Nice model you have there Adam. Restoring it will be a joy, and even more so if you take your time to find the pieces you need. I restored a terrible Sand Scorcher a few years ago, and took my time getting every new in packet spare part I needed. Cost plenty, but very satisfying.

You are right to stay away from reissue parts in my opinion. Doing so will mean you always have the satisfaction of knowing the model is all original. And if you ever decide to sell it, you will also be able to say it is "all original", making it more attractive to others.

Reproduction decals are both banned by Tamiya (they have tried to crack down on sellers), and not something I'd ever touch anyway (for any model) - even if a few were good efforts. Original decals do come up on eBay every few weeks or months, and cost a premium. But they're worth it. They are not especially rare, just be prepared to wait.

The original bumper set is part #5135. The set came in either black or beige. The beige bumper is far more plentiful, as it was rolled out as standard in later runs of the Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider kits, plus the F150 Ranger XLT, Super Champ, Sand Rover and Holiday Buggy. This means the vast majority of spare examples of the bumper are the beige version.

Your best chance of getting an original black bumper will be a used one, from another genuine collector who can guarantee it's an authentic original black bumper. (I think the embossed stamp on the reissue gives it away anyway)

Your other option is to get a beige one (there is a NIP original example on eBay right now) and they generally cost $50-$100.

Keep in mind that considering the original kit did come with beige bumpers (in fact, more Rough Riders were probably sold with the beige, than the black!) it is a totally legitimate original piece for the Rough Rider and nothing to sneeze at.

Collectors like the black version for reasons like:

- It's the original type included in the earliest examples of the kit.

- It's shown on the box art (the box art with the bumper anyway - the earliest box art did not show the kit style bumper at all and was later revised)

- It's shown on the catalogue model.

Finding a NIP example of the black bumper will take a while (it could take years) - and may cost over $200 if you get the chance. I paid $400 for one a few years ago. Yep, collectors sometimes suffer for the art It is a very rare part indeed.

But then, you can always take the approach of getting something legit in the interim (like an original beige). And then just keep an eBay "saved search" for the future just in case a black one ever comes up.

As for alternatives to eBay...unfortunately not much. Always check foreign eBay sites, not just your local ones, and ask sellers if they will ship to you.

One more thing...

Generally the "Mk1", "Mk2" naming is what people use to distinguish variants of a release.

So, original release Rough Rider (1979 - 1985) underwent a couple of little variants during it's time, such as with the bumper change and box art change.

Mk1 = Earliest type

Mk2 = Slight revision (such as box art)

Mk3 = Slight revision (such as beige bumper)

(there were also other changes)

30 years later, Tamiya issued an entirely new model with a new model number and called it "Buggy Champ". Sure it was the Rough Rider redux, but with an entirely new model number, name (and 20 other differences), it is technically a new model in Tamiya's history books.

I've tried to come up with a master definition to break this down (for myself as much as other collectors )

If interested, it's here: http://rctoymemories.com/models-releases-and-variants/

I hope to expand on this in future, and really define the "Mk1" vs "Mk2" etc variants of the original models.

Hopefully a few other TCers might be interested to assist As no single person (least of all me) knows every variant.

cheers,

H.

[mynameisdannyowens 61]

Fishing and Tamiyas.....two of my greatest loves....you're not into motorbikes as well are you coz that'd make it a full house!

Great SRB you have there

I'm the same, had a Lunchbox as a kid, bought one for years ago for my lad and now he's got one Tamiya and I've got sixteen (though he thinks we share them!)

[edeneen 23]

If I lived near a big frozen lake I would build one of those sail rigs with skis on it.

[Bubbleboy 6]

This is some great info, thanks everyone, especially Hibernaculum! I won't know the extent of how many parts will need replacing until I tear it down. This could be a couples months, but I'll keep this thread updated as I go along.

No motorcycles unfortunately. Wife canned that idea long ago....probably a good idea as my right foot is about 34lbs heavier than my left

Now...I just have to sell a bunch of fishing gear to afford a NIP black bumper

[Indetrucks 72]

Don't do it!!

This is how it started with me... a simple restoration of my old Childhood Fox and now I literally have over 15 restored Vintage Tamiya's. It's a TRAP!!!! Runnn

[njmlondon 570]

[Bubbleboy 6]

Then I'm doomed!!!!

My love for vintage stuff really lies with the SRB cars. After my Super Champ I had a Frog, Hotshot, then I got into RC10s, Yokomos, then ended the run with the original Schumaker Cat.

We'll see how this restoration goes, then decide what to do next. The one that might break theme might be an Avante, just because of the potential it had, even though it was a flop.

Regardless, I'll have to start saving.

[Bubbleboy 6]

So I picked up a set of vintage rear tires. Between the box looking it's age and he white dust on the rubber, I'm confident of its age. The front wheels I have pictured here, I'm not entirely sure they are vintage however. Is there a way to easily identify vintage front wheels vs. Re-re's?

Another thing, was the Sand Scorcher exhaust ever used on Rough Rider models? From pictures I've seen, it's not, but mine has it. Not sure if it was stock or an afterthought.

Thanks

[Hibernaculum 933]

The box, a bit of white dust on tyres etc are good signs of the wheel/tyre set being original. If it's in the box and has the little sealed screw packet and the old wheel parts sprues, it's most likely vintage. In my experience, the vast majority of boxed vintage tyre sets, contain legit vintage parts.

I can't remember what's embossed on the reissue wheel parts sprues in this case. But many of the reissue parts have a "run number" - ie. either on the part or the part sprue. It's a plain ol' number that might look something like "500345353". Whereas this never existed on original parts sprues which only had meaningful words like "Made in Japan", the model name, and maybe the year of release, embossed on them.

Ah the good old days, when every Tamiya part was labelled and named according to the model it came from To me this is one of the nice, quaint aspects that define what the "vintage" era truly was (and where it ends). Eventually Tamiya homogenized everything by chassis number, for optimal manufacturing efficiency^TM. Which funnily enough, is precisely where I lost interest.

And no, the 'stinger' and other plastic exhaust parts were not part of the Rough Rider kit. So your one must have inherited it from somewhere else, which means you could just sell it off to someone else.

[Hibernaculum 933]

Just a bit more info about the bumpers, to follow what I said about embossed writing.

This will help you guys weed out the reissue stuff, when searching for authentic originals.

Vintage Original Black bumper:

- Is made from a more "matte" plastic compound.

- Has nothing written on the underside (the side facing the ground when the bumper is on a car).
- Has "1/10 RC RACING BUGY MADE IN JAPAN" on the top side. Yes, including that spelling mistake!
- Has two protruding plastic pins that you are supposed to cut off, on the top side.

Reissue Black bumper:

- Is made from a "gloss" plastic compound.

- Has "TAMIYA PLASTIC MODEL CO" on the underside (the side facing the ground when the bumper is on a car).
- Has ">ABS<", "58015/0979050-00" and "© 1979 2009 TAMIYA" on the top side.
- Has no protruding plastic pins (AFAIK)

Vintage Original Beige/Grey bumper:

- Is made from a more "matte" plastic compound.

- Has "TAMIYA PLASTIC MODEL CO" on the underside (the side facing the ground when the bumper is on a car).
- Has "1/10 RC RACING BUGGY MADE IN JAPAN" on the top side. Yes the spelling mistake found on the vintage black one is corrected here.
- Has two protruding plastic pins that you are supposed to cut off, on the top side.

Reissue Beige/Grey bumper:

- Is made from a "gloss" plastic compound.

- Has "TAMIYA PLASTIC MODEL CO" on the underside (the side facing the ground when the bumper is on a car).
- Has ">ABS<" (and some other stuff I can't remember) on the top side, probably similar to writing on reissue black bumper.
- Has two protruding plastic pins that you are supposed to cut off, on the top side.

Feel free to correct me (anyone) if I have any of this wrong.

[Champ85 609]

Similar to what Hibernaculum mentions about bumpers is also true of the plastic wheels, especially the white ones from the Sand Scorcher/Super Champ/Frog/Grasshopper/Hornet (they are all the same).

The original wheels are a bit more "off white" and not just due to age. They were never a "bright white" like the re-issue ones are, even when they were new.

The original wheels were less glossy/shiny/reflective as well. They were smooth but had an almost matte-like finish, not like the re-issue wheels which have a definite "glossy/glass" look to them, almost like they are coated with polyurethane.

I do not know if the sprues changed - I assume they did.

[Bubbleboy 6]

Thank you both for the specifics on the vintage parts, much appreciated.

[Hibernaculum 933]

No worries Bubbleboy. And yes, what Champ85 says about those original wheels being "off white" and matte is absolutely true also. Really noticeable when you see both.

All reissue wheels are bright white and more glossy. Having grown up with the cars, the catalogue photos, and put so many of those wheel sets together... the Reissues just don't look right to me. All that crisp, bright, glossy plastic, combined with the fake decals, even altered car naming... ugh. Clearly Tamiya used a different plastic compound for the reissue stuff. It's easy to spot.

[Champ85 609]

H, you and I are on the same wavelength on that. The new wheels didn't "look right" to me from the first moment I saw them. Different plastic compound for sure.

[becbec 5]

Yes correct but there is also another original black bumper same as the first one listed but has the correct spelling of buggy I do not know which is rarer bugy or buggy but both released with mk1 Riders and Scorchers there was also bugy misspellings on very early Rough Rider body shells and early drivers parts trees

Cheers Rob

[becbec 5]

Sorry I should have said first very nice example of a mk1 RR chances are it came with the grey bumper but I understand you wanting a original black one but its still a mk1 which indeed is a special car to have if I had a spare bumper I would send it your way but unfortunately there all needed for other projects but good luck in the search should be a nice restore

Cheers Rob

[Bubbleboy 6]

Thanks Rob for the info! The bumper in the picture was likely the original given the little wear on the rest of the car. I have a NOS bumper coming from eBay, along with a few other goodies.

Just working on my man-closet. It's not a man cave, but an area in our storage area, ever so graciously offered by my wife to work on my RC goodies. Better than an unheated garage! Pictures to follow

[Bubbleboy 6]

A productive weekend.

Before...

After...

Can't wait to get going with the tear down!

[Bubbleboy 6]

A lot like Christmas in 1983, I just couldn't wait. In about an hour and a half, everything was apart! So much fun!!!

There's a few more pieces that will need replacing (see my ad in the classifieds!). There is some signs of wear, so this was a runner at some point in its life. The bent front arm shaft gave that away.

A couple of things of interest;

1) I noticed the rear suspension arms only had one brass bushing supporting the axle

2) take a look at the motor picture, has anyone seen this type of plug? Usually there are individual connectors

3) quite surprised with the amount of wear on the rubber and brass inserts on the rear shocks

Some pics of the progress...

[jupitertwo 1484]

That room/cove looks awesome, great work!

I would wonder if you need to put a lip round the cutout for the water heater (or whatever it is), it looks like a magnet for screws, bolts, e-clips

[mongoose1983 3335]

[...]

A couple of things of interest;

1) I noticed the rear suspension arms only had one brass bushing supporting the axle

[...]

Those rear susp. arms are the earliest type made by Tamiya, that's another sign that confirms this is a MK1, so you better treat it like a treasure, my friend.

Back to the susp. arms, although it seems they might use two bearings each one, they only use one per arm. If you care to check the original manual you'll be able to confirm this. It's curious, though, Tamiya changed those arms pretty soon after the first production. But as far as I know, it was never meant to use two bearings each side.

Congrats again on finding such jewel!

[Bubbleboy 6]

Made some good progress today. The majority of the parts I've ordered have come in and were installed. All vintage, no re-re's.

Can someone tell me, is this connector attached to the motor standard issue? I don't think so, but want be be sure before I cut it out.

Thanks