tamiyamexifan 3 Posted April 23, 2014 Hello everyone, I've been a longtime viewer of this site. Love it. Over the years, however, I've started to pay less attention to the current Tamiya line-up of buggies and focused my attention on their vintage offerings, some of which I've owned. At heart I'm a collector and a builder. I enjoy the assembly of Tamiya cars much more than the actual running. And since I'm constantly looking for the next great Tamiya build, I stumbled upon the much hated 4WD DB02 LEONIS. Now this buggy strikes me as a kit that will hold some kind of special value in the future. It shares some characteristics that made the BigWig and Avante niche cars: interesting build, very unique chassis, high price tag and over engineered parts. (In the case of the Leonis, I'm talking about the placing of the battery, something that surely impacts on the load of the problematic drivetrain) Does anyone else here feel the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tamiya1/10 382 Posted April 23, 2014 it seems the location of the battery will give the rear wheels traction and balance the chassis out. Not sure if the weight will place stress on the chassis from jumping . if Tamiya's engineers strengthen the rear, s/b ok. Regardless ,there will be no recalls from Tamiya like Toyota, Ford , GM....:-D:-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grastens 2795 Posted April 23, 2014 Before I make any really serious conclusions: is it true that the Leonis had fast-wearing parts in the drivetrain? And if so: did this affect it as a runner and not just as a racer? If there was a fundamental problem with the car as a runner, it would seem to be a lesser-known Juggernaut 1; if not, then the Avante/Bigwig niche is probably correct. We will probably all end up loving the unusual tuner-based styling and unique driveshaft placement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Percymon 2184 Posted April 23, 2014 The early wear in the drivetrain certainly prevented serious racers jumping on it. There are some mods muted to improve things but u think this one struggled to take over the in racer mantle of the DB-01 - remember tamiya released a hop up DB-01RR chassis quite a while after the DB-02 release . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tamiyamexifan 3 Posted April 24, 2014 Before I make any really serious conclusions: is it true that the Leonis had fast-wearing parts in the drivetrain? And if so: did this affect it as a runner and not just as a racer? If there was a fundamental problem with the car as a runner, it would seem to be a lesser-known Juggernaut 1; if not, then the Avante/Bigwig niche is probably correct. We will probably all end up loving the unusual tuner-based styling and unique driveshaft placement. Yes, that's my point exactly. It's a unique chassis. I know of no other Tamiya buggy wit this kind of rear setup. By tha way, the body is also unique to this particular model. It was designed by TOMS, so that's another interesting aspect. If I were a speculator, I'd collect one or two of these models and see what happens. The market of Tamiya RC seems to revolve in cycles so you never know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super gripper 419 Posted April 24, 2014 the main problem with the Leonis from a racer's point of view is that to make it competative (ie strong enough and reliable) is the cost !! The kit is way over priced and after adding all hop ups necerssary (thats right - NECERSSARY) it cost the same if not more than a TRF502x !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qatmix 794 Posted April 24, 2014 A guy at our club bought one and its been a good car for him. The drive train is reliable although it can benefit from some obsessive shimming to make it even better. The car is not as light or as simple as the excellent DB01 and that's the main issue with it as the extra weight and complexity is only going to create more likelihood of damage when you land it badly from a large jump. The guy loves his and its won races and been reliable so its not a stinker. As supergripper also states its expensive though, but it is quirky and that's why you are interested in it so that's cool. (The shell is also cool in my opinion) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB 151 Posted April 24, 2014 I love this buggy. I bought one but returned it on advise and got a DB01R instead. The reason I originally went for it was the interesting drive train and cab forward styling. I totally understand the OP's thinking on this and am still considering getting one if not for the fact its unusual and good looking (IMO). Its just a shame there's not more development or hopups from Tamiya. But I agree with others, the biggest issue is the pricing, it should be at least £60-£70 less than its current rrp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super gripper 419 Posted April 24, 2014 I always wonder what this buggy might have been. Think about it ................. The DB01 is a plastic version of the TRF501x The DB01 is massively successful especially in its R form. It has the same drive train So if the DB02 had exactly the same drive train as the TRF502x, well it would have been HUGE !!! BUT, because it had to carry the stupid stick pack instead of lipo bricks .................... its a huge massive flop !!!!!!! THERE are countless slaggings off of the DB02 on the net, they are there and not hard to find if you LOOK .............. even one by a top Japanese driver .... VERY few appraisals .................. and I mean very few .......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB 151 Posted April 24, 2014 I always wonder what this buggy might have been. Think about it ................. The DB01 is a plastic version of the TRF501x The DB01 is massively successful especially in its R form. It has the same drive train So if the DB02 had exactly the same drive train as the TRF502x, well it would have been HUGE !!! BUT, because it had to carry the stupid stick pack instead of lipo bricks .................... its a huge massive flop !!!!!!! THERE are countless slaggings off of the DB02 on the net, they are there and not hard to find if you LOOK .............. even one by a top Japanese driver .... VERY few appraisals .................. and I mean very few .......... Not everybody looks at these buggies from a racers perspective Lee, for a collector/enthusiast its a very interesting looking design, and also quite good looking as well, which was the OP's original point I think. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tamiyamexifan 3 Posted April 24, 2014 Not everybody looks at these buggies from a racers perspective Lee, for a collector/enthusiast its a very interesting looking design, and also quite good looking as well, which was the OP's original point I think. Yes, that was exactly my point Dave. In the past we have seen MANY racing buggies that are forgotten because they lack "character". While the Leonis is indeed trying to be a racing car it failed massively in that respect and now almost everyone is bashing it soundly. Maybe the same thing happened in the 80's with the Avante, BigWig, etc all of which Tamiya launched as racing options but turned out to be terrible as racers when compared to Optimas, ProCats, RC10s, etc. Anyway, the Leonis certainly is a controversial kit, so that can be only be good for Tamiya in the long run Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB 151 Posted April 24, 2014 Tamiya have recently released a universal prop-shaft hop-up which looks like it will solve many of the fundimental drivetrain issues with the buggy. I was looking into pricing and you can get a new Leonis plus the prop-shaft hop up for less than £200 delivered (assuming you don't get hit by customs). I'm seriously starting to consider this as I really like this chassis, even with it's flaws, and I'm a big fan of the Tom's styling. It's also worth pointing out that it's not directy comparable to a DB01R for value, as you get wheels, tyres and a body/wing with the Leonis - these don't come with the DB01R, and this adds at least £50 to the cost of getting a DB01R up and running. I'm not saying the Leonis would compare to the R as a racer, but I recon it would be a really fun build and good fun to thrash about the back garden Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeepnMike 150 Posted April 24, 2014 You guys are making me want to buy one of these, just to have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mheald 351 Posted April 24, 2014 You guys are making me want to buy one of these, just to have. This! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super gripper 419 Posted April 24, 2014 Not everybody looks at these buggies from a racers perspective Lee, for a collector/enthusiast its a very interesting looking design, and also quite good looking as well, which was the OP's original point I think. I do understand this but until you have a racers perspective in the mix then you do not have the whole picture ! Yes, that was exactly my point Dave. In the past we have seen MANY racing buggies that are forgotten because they lack "character". While the Leonis is indeed trying to be a racing car it failed massively in that respect and now almost everyone is bashing it soundly. Maybe the same thing happened in the 80's with the Avante, BigWig, etc all of which Tamiya launched as racing options but turned out to be terrible as racers when compared to Optimas, ProCats, RC10s, etc. Anyway, the Leonis certainly is a controversial kit, so that can be only be good for Tamiya in the long run It certainly does not lack ''character'' thats for sure, just comes with a hefty price tag !! Tamiya have recently released a universal prop-shaft hop-up which looks like it will solve many of the fundimental drivetrain issues with the buggy. I was looking into pricing and you can get a new Leonis plus the prop-shaft hop up for less than £200 delivered (assuming you don't get hit by customs). I'm seriously starting to consider this as I really like this chassis, even with it's flaws, and I'm a big fan of the Tom's styling. It's also worth pointing out that it's not directy comparable to a DB01R for value, as you get wheels, tyres and a body/wing with the Leonis - these don't come with the DB01R, and this adds at least £50 to the cost of getting a DB01R up and running. I'm not saying the Leonis would compare to the R as a racer, but I recon it would be a really fun build and good fun to thrash about the back garden As Dave very rightly points out there are the hop ups to correct some of the cars flaws. As a ''basher'' all be it an expensive one the hop ups needed just to make sure it doesn't break is even more expence ! I am all for people buying this car, I am offering my knowledge of the drive train as I race aTRF502x. Not wanting to see these kits stay in their boxes, I am interested to see how people get on with them. I spent a good ten hours plus researching this car in depth, I really wanted one to compliment my DB01R. if you do buy one I emplore you to buy the slipper clutch and drive train hop ups. There is one very well respected and trusted member has had nothing but trouble with his Leonis even having spent lots of money on the hops ups You will need the slipper clutch and the centre UJ's Dave suggests I have read every post intencely and have understood all people's points. Just please heed my advice ................................ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plopes 138 Posted April 24, 2014 I really do like the way it looks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SB_Aust 42 Posted April 24, 2014 The DB01 is still king for me, reason why I have three of them (2 runners and a shelf queen) and it got me back in the Tamiya hobby after 20 years absence. When I heard about the DB02 release I initially got excited but quickly changed my mind and have stuck with DB01 for the last 6 years and counting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
super gripper 419 Posted April 25, 2014 here's one with all the hop ups on, some one buy it quick .................... http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149814 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB 151 Posted April 25, 2014 here's one with all the hop ups on, some one buy it quick .................... http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149814 It's certainly a bargain but, as discussed, those who wish to buy this buggy probably want the experience of building a NIB from scratch so as to full appreciate the uniqueness. In saying this, at £130 it probably covers the price of the hop-ups alone, so could be worth it to someone who actually wants to race one.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB 151 Posted April 25, 2014 Looking at some of the owners comments it looks like shimming the gears correctly is essential, this seems to be the main issue - in general, more shims are needed than are shown in the instructions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Klausen 1197 Posted April 27, 2014 Man I hate this thread. I am so close to buying one of these babies argghhhh. Maybe not the best performer, but the design is definately unique, and I am almost certain it will make me happy, when I look at the shelves in 20 years 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy_w_beans 4272 Posted April 27, 2014 Tower is showing the DB02 Leonis as discontinued, but Tamiya USA still has them in stock. Maybe Tower didn't sell enough to justify keeping this kit in its catalog? I think this will be an orphaned platform like the TRF801X/XT family. Interesting to look at, but run at your own risk long term. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redzone 212 Posted April 28, 2014 Modern classic no, modern orphan yes! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B.M.T. 127 Posted April 28, 2014 In future years it may be rare (but desirable?) unless shops get stuck with oodles of them. I guess it comes down to how many were made in the first run. I suppose people who want one of everything will eventually have one, but I can't see it obtaining a cult following as some do. For example, I doubt it will anyone's first car, so it will miss out on the SRB/Holiday Buggy/Hornet etc mythos, and fair enough, the Avante gained cult following for the OTT engineering, but it's the engineering that has made this one a flop, I think. That bevel drive just makes me shudder for all reasons... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
94eg! 834 Posted April 28, 2014 If it were an R-spec chassis we were talking about, then I DO feel it might have ended up a cult classic kit. But since there is literally ZERO eye candy contained within the box, the DB02 (in kit form) will probably just fade away into the sunset. Sure the maxed out hopped up runners will be interesting to see in the future. But the insane cost as a vintage NIB kit with zero luster + tons of expensive hop-ups will make the thing pretty unwanted many years from now. More of a novelty (or even oddity) than something really special. It would be like Tamiya producing the Vanquish without making the Avante or Egress. Without the advanced version, the base model has nothing to aspire to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites