33 replies to this topic

[Saito]

The old days were great but we RC enthusist have it pretty good today. We Tamiya addicts tend to be a nostalgic bunch. If we weren't, the re-res would have never flown. I admit I miss the heyday of RC in the 80's. It was an exciting time. Something dawned on me as I was screwing together my new Avante MK II. Here I am assembling a car that is light years ahead of the Boomerang and yet it cost less than one did back in the day! I looked at one of my packs laying on the bench. A 1200mAH pack would go for $25-30 in '87. Now I have a cheapie 1900mAH sitting here for only $12. Old Escs were not cheap. Now we get them in most kits. Its just nice that in a world where it appears everything goes up and up in price, we have a hobby that not only has gotten cheaper in some aspects, but also better.

[federx]

evolution, anyone?

[ryanbored]

Yeah- It's quite sweet.

Everything is sort of the same too- I still can't afford everything, I still get nagged (fiancee and not mother!) and i still want everything!

[markbt73]

Agreed - except that back then we weren't subjected to the word "truggy."

[terry.sc]

Amazing how things have got cheaper over the years. Converting the prices of old kits to modern values, if they were new kits (not vintage models!) who would pay $180 for a Holiday Buggy or $500 for a Hilux. Again converting the value to modern times an ESC would cost $150 minimum for something more basic than a TEU-101BK which Tamiya can afford to include in their kits.

And on the track you gear the car to run as fast as the grip allows, instead of gearing it just to last the 5 minutes.

[Hibernaculum]

The old days were great but we RC enthusist have it pretty good today. We Tamiya addicts tend to be a nostalgic bunch. If we weren't, the re-res would have never flown. I admit I miss the heyday of RC in the 80's. It was an exciting time. Something dawned on me as I was screwing together my new Avante MK II. Here I am assembling a car that is light years ahead of the Boomerang and yet it cost less than one did back in the day! I looked at one of my packs laying on the bench. A 1200mAH pack would go for $25-30 in '87. Now I have a cheapie 1900mAH sitting here for only $12. Old Escs were not cheap. Now we get them in most kits. Its just nice that in a world where it appears everything goes up and up in price, we have a hobby that not only has gotten cheaper in some aspects, but also better.

Agree here too. Things are a lot cheaper now.

However, while this is great, I wonder if the ease with which we can now get stuff also diminishes the excitement of getting it?

After all, the harder something is to get, the more you appreciate it. Tamiya's current release items are cheaper now - compared to the cost of living - than ever before. So which is more fun - finally being able to afford lots of current release cars now? Or was getting 1 car when you were 10 years old, after months of saving and begging, still more exciting?

Vintage items, on the other hand, have risen in value and are still pretty much just as 'untouchable' (if not more so) as they were when we were kids.
So because they are still hard to get, I still feel especially excited if I finally get hold of one.

cheers,
H.

[Saito]

Very well put Hibernaculum. With more income and cheaper kits some of the anticipation fades away. And don't even get me started on how the overall change in kit presentation has altered the purchasing experiance. Nothing will ever compare to the day I finally walked into the local hobby shop with my long saved money to purchase my first Tamiya, a Lunch Box.

[WillyChang]

I miss the days when one could spend all day at the track or bashing ground... with no risk of being interrupted on the mobile.

Or even mobiles whose batteries could flatten within hours, not weeks... hence plausible excuse for being offline.

[94eg!]

I will never miss those 5 minute run times. When your only 14 years old, it's the most disappointing thing in the world!

BTW: I just got my first taste of brushless tonight with a Velociti-7.5 powered Lazer ZX-5, and I must say I'm hooked. 10T horsepower + 19T Runtime + low maintenance = !!! I still love cutting comms on the motor lathe though...

[highflyer]

Yep, EVOLUTION of R/C in general has been great...

[madaz75]

I will never miss those 5 minute run times. When your only 14 years old, it's the most disappointing thing in the world!

True that..
It was even worse when you only had 2 batteries, and no fast charger..

5min run time after a 14 hour charge.. Very Dissapointing

[TheFantom]

I can remember back in 1986, when I was just a little kid, finally getting my first real RC car (Road Wizard F1). I will always have fond memories of sitting down with my dad and building that car, and also of the insane excitment of taking it to my first sanctioned "official" race. Man that was fun!

But like my buddy 94eg, I certainly won't miss the 4-6 minute run times. When you are 10 years old and you have to wait 45 mins+ per charge just to get a couple minutes behind the wheel, it's maddening!


PS: Sean, the Lazer was sick man, we definately have to take it out again soon. Maybe even challenge Rob's 501x to a friendly race, lol, eh Rob? ;-)

[highflyer]

PS: Sean, the Lazer was sick man, we definately have to take it out again soon. Maybe even challenge Rob's 501x to a friendly race, lol, eh Rob? ;-)

OOOH, Your On!!!

[mobias]

sorry double post

[mobias]

The people of today (ie us lot) have it much better in all but one important thing - buggy design. The Avante II may perform loads better than the original but does it look loads better? As we've all said before here if Tamiya would only go back to making propper RC model buggies, even like the mid 80's stuff, instead of the characterless spaceships on wheels they make then today really would be the golden era of RC cars.

[markbt73]

The people of today (ie us lot) have it much better in all but one important thing - buggy design. The Avante II may perform loads better than the original but does it look loads better? As we've all said before here if Tamiya would only go back to making propper RC model buggies, even like the mid 80's stuff, instead of the characterless spaceships on wheels they make then today really would be the golden era of RC cars.

Absolutely. I was just looking through some showrooms of old cars and it occurred to me what Tamiya really needs to bring back - ROLLCAGES! The Wild One/FAV, the back half of the Hotshot, the roof of the Bigwig, that cage sticking out of the back of the Falcon... they just scream "RC buggy" to me, and there is nothing besides the rereleases that has that look now. Even the Marui and Kyosho cars with cages looked 100 times better than their Lexan-bodied twins.

I'd love to see someone take one of the modern cars and make a plastic rollcage and driver figure for it, just to show that you can have the cool looks of the old cars with modern suspension geometry and efficient gearboxes. Almost everything today is hideously ugly, and they all look the same; please, Tamiya, rescue us from the ugly cookie-cutter Duratrax nightmare that the hobby is stuck in right now! HPI can do it with the 5b; you can do it at half the size.

[94eg!]

I think that within this hobby, those who like plastic roll-cages are in the minority. I personally very much prefer a lexan body over plastic bars for both light weight, looks, decoration and aerodynamics. Again this is all an area of personal opinion, but there is simply no "practical" reason to go back...

[madaz75]

... there is simply no "practical" reason to go back...

Same argument could be applied to the Re-Re's..
But they sold by the truck load..

I say go right ahead and at least test the market with a Wild One/FAV looks, modern chassis/gearbox.
and let the market decide if it's a good thing.

I'd buy one.

[Z]

I love roll cages. They look soooooo great, and so charmingly superfluous!

[stulec52]

Agree here too. Things are a lot cheaper now.

However, while this is great, I wonder if the ease with which we can now get stuff also diminishes the excitement of getting it?

After all, the harder something is to get, the more you appreciate it. Tamiya's current release items are cheaper now - compared to the cost of living - than ever before. So which is more fun - finally being able to afford lots of current release cars now? Or was getting 1 car when you were 10 years old, after months of saving and begging, still more exciting?

Vintage items, on the other hand, have risen in value and are still pretty much just as 'untouchable' (if not more so) as they were when we were kids.
So because they are still hard to get, I still feel especially excited if I finally get hold of one.

cheers,
H.

Mr. H,
as usual you got me thinking !
In the world of full scale cars, one of the most collectable and sought after cars is the single biggest seller of all time, the VW Beetle.
So, with that in mind, is it possible that the cheep and cheerful, and plentiful, of today, might in fact go on to become the most wanted of tomorrow?

Also, kids of today have so many more things to divert their attentions from rc cars, so I wonder if the excitement most of us had carries over to todays kids? I'll tell you in a couple of years as I have stockpiled a few different models for my kids when I think they are old enough to appreciate them ( about 5 years old ought to do I think !!!)

I'm off to put my Rose Coloured Glasses on again !

[Hibernaculum]

I think that within this hobby, those who like plastic roll-cages are in the minority. I personally very much prefer a lexan body over plastic bars for both light weight, looks, decoration and aerodynamics. Again this is all an area of personal opinion, but there is simply no "practical" reason to go back...

I totally agree that there is no practical reason to go back.
I would just add this: There is no practical reason to go forward, either. At least not for a lot of people.

In the old days, buggies improved from year to year in huge leaps and bounds. From the fundamental changes (one year they didn't even have spring suspension, the next year they did!), to the high performance - like the invention of 4WD, ball bearings, ball diffs, whatever. These were obvious improvements that everyone could see.

But these days (and correct me if I slip up because I'm merely an avid reader!) buggies have come so far, that advancements in buggy design seems to involve trying to eek out further tenths of performance each year - small improvements which are only appreciated by those involved in racing, for whom a tiny increase in performance could mean a big difference in a high quality competition.

If you don't race, these improvements don't really matter any more. They don't have much backyard practicality.
I think that buggies have been taken to the limits of their practicality in terms of speed (or if they haven't, they will reach that limit one day soon).
Brushless powered off road cars travelling at ultra high speeds (what are we up to, 70-80km/h?) look amazing, but also seem practically uncontrollable to me. A 1/10 scale car can only go so fast, before a small obstacle will send it flipping over end to end. And if you hit a solid object at these ever increasing speeds, what materials can withstand the impact? In which case, what's the point? Just keep on advancing until we reach light speed? "Check out my new R/C car, dude." "Where?" "There!" "Where?"....etc.

I am merely saying that I think there is a level of physical practicality to be reached with operating scale model cars. There is not an infinite path leading to higher performance and higher excitement in equal measure.

Therefore, there's a logical argument in favour of a fallback - at least for a small segment of the R/C industry - at which point R/C designers could focus on improving other aspects instead. And that opens up the possibility of both developing new things and learning something from the past - both in terms of slower, more practical speeds, to more realistic or interesting body designs. New ideas leading to greater realism, materials, versatilities and so on, would be welcome.

The only question is the fickle and small market. Is there or will there ever be a big enough market again, who are interested in more than mere performance, like there was in the 1980s? New pundits are usually blinded by performance above all else. How do you convince people of today, who go to hobby stores looking for the latest brushless or nitro truggy to use for bashing or chasing cats up and down their street at 60km/h, that racing a couple of 25km/h Hornets around a track with some buddies back in 1985 was actually more fun?

cheers,
H.

[94eg!]

I don't really know about that. If you look at the advancement in the Tamiya line up in just the 4WD buggy segment, each new series of car seems to be leaps & bounds over the last (with the exception of the DF-02 )...

Hotshot series: Shaft driven, but terrible suspension. Took many iterations to get kinks ironed out.
Thundershot series: Beefed up & dependable
Avante series: Tripple diffs, ball-diffs & Torque splitter options, great suspension geometry, with plastic, FRP & CFRP versions to choose from.
Top Force series: Looks to have been designed to be more robust.
DF-02: Total step backwards in engineering, performance & execution. Obviously aimed at the entry level.
DF-03: Phenomenally better than the previous cars with a new addition for Tamiya 4WD.... The slipper.
DB-01: Designed for durability, simplicity, efficiency, with integrated bulkheads, long awaited suspension mounting blocks, & race proven geometry. This car should easily out-class all the rest of the Tamiya 4WD buggy lineup...

[highflyer]

I don't really know about that. If you look at the advancement in the Tamiya line up in just the 4WD buggy segment, each new series of car seems to be leaps & bounds over the last (with the exception of the DF-02 )...

Hotshot series: Shaft driven, but terrible suspension. Took many iterations to get kinks ironed out.
Thundershot series: Beefed up & dependable
Avante series: Tripple diffs, ball-diffs & Torque splitter options, great suspension geometry, with plastic, FRP & CFRP versions to choose from.
Top Force series: Looks to have been designed to be more robust.
DF-02: Total step backwards in engineering, performance & execution. Obviously aimed at the entry level.
DF-03: Phenomenally better than the previous cars with a new addition for Tamiya 4WD.... The slipper.
DB-01: Designed for durability, simplicity, efficiency, with integrated bulkheads, long awaited suspension mounting blocks, & race proven geometry. This car should easily out-class all the rest of the Tamiya 4WD buggy lineup...

**** SDAWG, NICE POST!!

[Hibernaculum]

I wasn't talking about Tamiya specifically, but thanks for the info.
Was referring to buggies in general, and the rate of advancement at the very top level, speculating whether the changes these days are more subtle than they used to be because performance has been very high for many years. Perhaps there is an argument that performance can only be taken so far (and therefore, that R/C designers should focus more attention elsewhere, not just performance). Compare the top car from 2007 to the top car from 2002, then compare the top car from 1987 to the top car from 1982. Bigger rate of advancement in the early days, slower these days. etc.
cheers,
H.

[94eg!]

Of course the advancement is gonna taper just like anything else starting new. R/C racing had just begun in 82, and the manufacturers were all playing guessing games and grasping at straws. Some things worked and others didn't. Take the Avante for example. It was a car designed solely by engineers with no racers input whats-so-ever. As a result, the car was fundamentally flawed. No car since has ever gone back to tripple diffs, aluminum rod ends, and flexing front suspension. But we did get carbon chassis, lexan under-trays, torque splitters and ball-diffs out of it. These were all major steps forward in racing (probably pioneered by Kyosho though)...

I certainly agree that the current steps are small. But even still, the cars are still getting better & better. I love the oldies, and run my Hotshot & Vanquish all the time. But at the same time I certainly love our new brushless Lazer, and can't wait for the Durga to hit the shelves as well.