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Twin Motor / Twin Battery - What Esc And Motors?


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#1 Mad Ax

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 12:49 PM

I'm considering buying a Twin Detonator as a high-speed project. I love my Blackfoot Extreme but have always yearned for 4x4 control and twin-motor torque. I was also very impressed at how well twin-battery twin-motor monsters perform.

I've done some reading and I understand I need to wire the motors in parallel and the batteries in series to produce a 14.4v twin-motor beast of a truck. I know some of you have already done this on your TXTs / Clods - so my question is: what are the recommended motors for 14.4v mayhem, and what ESCs can handle 12 cells across such motors?

Any advice appreciated :)

Ax
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#2 tamiya monkey

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 01:48 PM

you could go for an esc from a e-savage or e-maxx but they can only handle 23 turn motors, depending on what motors your fitting, the hpi 550 gt motors are only 6 odd at modelsport and there 23 turn but considering how fast they are in a big truck then it should make the twin detonator fairly rapid.

#3 secretasianman

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 01:52 PM

To take the ESC out of the equation you could use an MSC but then you'd have to supply receiver power from a 4-cell pack to keep it from being fried :)

All jokes aside, the idea is mindblowing. then I heard about the E-maxx.

The Novak Super Duty XR supports dual motors and comes pre-wired with two tamiya battery connectors.

http://www.teamnovak...tyxr/index.html

On paper it's perfect:
Supports down to 10 turns (2x20 turns parallel)
or down to 12 turns if using 12-14 cells
BEC supplies 6V and 3A
400A forward current and 180 reverse/braking

However there's one gotcha in a gray area: the product listing *says* dual battery config supports 550 motors only (traxxas e-maxx) so I don't know what that means if you run the device on 540 class cans with two batteries. Being a good consumer who never voids his warranty I followed the instructions and rewired the unit to one battery connector (bridge the battery 1 leads, they appear to be wired in series, attached) Personally, I don't want to be SOL if I toast the unit.

However that's just my contribution. If anyone's run two 540-style motors in this ESC with two batteries, I'd love to hear about it!

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#4 mymonsterbeetleisbroken

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:49 PM

To take the ESC out of the equation you could use an MSC but then you'd have to supply receiver power from a 4-cell pack to keep it from being fried :)


You don't need a receiver pack when using an msc. Nearly all tamiya msc's have a power lead on them for the receiver, all you need is a battery eliminator or a receiver with the battery eliminator built in. (BEC)

I like to run 2 esc's on a Y lead to power twin motors. Its easy enough to set up and you can decide on single or twin batteries depending on how you wire them up.

Traxxas EVX esc's are also cheap and seem pretty good :)

#5 backtomyroots

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:11 PM

Well, first figure what motors you want to use then you'll be able to figure what esc can handle it. When wired in parallel an esc will assume two 16 turn motors are one 8 turn motor. There's one example - then you know you need at least an 8-turn motor.

More:

Motor & ESC Wiring

Some great ESC's:
  • Novak Super Duty
  • Novak EVX
  • LRP Bullet Reverse ESC


Toys they're not.

#6 secretasianman

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 05:33 PM

You don't need a receiver pack when using an msc. Nearly all tamiya msc's have a power lead on them for the receiver, all you need is a battery eliminator or a receiver with the battery eliminator built in. (BEC)

With dual batteries, I'd be afraid of sending 14.4 or more volts to the receiver. It looks like MSC just wires the receiver power in parallel to the battery. Part of Mad AX's project scope includes dual batteries.

However there's one gotcha in a gray area: the product listing *says* dual battery config supports 550 motors only (traxxas e-maxx) so I don't know what that means if you run the device on 540 class cans with two batteries. Being a good consumer who never voids his warranty I followed the instructions and rewired the unit to one battery connector (bridge the battery 1 leads, they appear to be wired in series, attached) Personally, I don't want to be SOL if I toast the unit.


Found the answer to my question, the Savage and E-MAXX 550-class motors are rated to take the 12-16 cells of voltage. a lot of the 540 stock and modifieds vary from 6-8.

revisiting theoriginal question:

I'm considering buying a Twin Detonator as a high-speed project

I say transplant the E-MAXX 550's and run off the Novak Super Duty or Novak EVX. you sound like you're willing to spend :) this sounds exciting, I say post pics, video if possible.

#7 Saito

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 12:13 AM

Correct. Running twin 540s on twin 6 cell packs will toast the 540s not the speed controller. I run twin 550s from All Electronics (virtually the same as Titans and under $5 USD a piece) and twin 7.2v packs through a Novak Super Duty in my heavy TXT-1. That ESC barely gets warm and has taken all I can through at it. Its the toughest dual motor brushed ESC on the market. I've heard various results with the EVX. In fact I think Traxxas (actually Novak) intro'd a new EVX 2. The thing with the EVX is its maxed out with two 550 Titans. If you craved more speed down the road they suggest you step up to the Super Duty which is a direct bolt-in for the E-Maxx EVX.

#8 Mad Ax

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:28 AM

Thanks for the advice homeboys :huh:

Now definately considering the TD at the beginning of December, built and run with standard motors on MSC with a 4" shock conversion like my Blackfoot Extreme... And then in the new year, once the Xmas spendage is out of the way, upgrading to a Novak Super Duty, twin 550s and dual batteries. I guess I will have to investigate some chassis customising to find a suitable place for two batteries - keeping the COG as low as possible without reducing ground clearance.

This should be a fun project :D
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#9 4wdmt

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:03 PM

Since you will be building it stock for the moment. Did you also consider the newest TD offspring, The Dualhunter? It already has a basic dual motor ESC.

#10 richb

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 02:23 PM

You can pick up the Mtroniks Super E Truck ESC on ebay for reasonable money. I paid just over 30 for mine. You can comfortably run 2 17 turn motors on a single stick pack. cant remember what the limit is with two packs, but i know its lower. Something like 11. I wouldnt recommend going a low as a 11, but may be 15 would be ok.

#11 secretasianman

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 02:31 PM

This should be a fun project :huh:


heck yeah it should be, you're transplanting the insane e-maxx powerplant into a smaller car! almost reminds me of the Monster Miata!!!

#12 Mad Ax

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:04 PM

Since you will be building it stock for the moment. Did you also consider the newest TD offspring, The Dualhunter? It already has a basic dual motor ESC.

I'm not really sure I see a point in spending the extra for an ESC that will be surplus to requirements in a month's time anyway... Plus the TD has a much nicer shell; the Dualhunter is absolutely vile...
I'd rather have a Slash than a Wii

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#13 4wdmt

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:59 AM

Sorry, I was just merely asking. Don't get me wrong. I have a newly built TD. With a basic F/R airtronic BL ESC, Tamiya CVA shocks and BBs all around. If I only knew that the DH is coming anytime soon, I should have waited. I don't mind the body. Just that, I'm more to the ESC.

I am kinda' planning what you are planning. I have in my possession a new Novak super duty XR and 2 new 13T venom motors. Just don't have time to put them on yet. But I am not going for more than 7.2 volts. Keep us posted with your project.

#14 Saito

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:50 PM

I know I debated for months on whether to run twin packs with twin 550s or one pack with twin mod motors. I didn't like the extra weight and charge time of two batteries, but I didn't want to fuss with the maintance of two mod motors. Closed can 550s seem to last forever. I'm glad I went for 550s. The speed and torque is incredible and the weight of the extra pack isn't even noticed.

#15 Rabiedmushroom

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:16 PM

Hey Madders,
Alex and I are running Novak Super Duties in his TXT, and my Draggin. And you know from Ham Hill that my monster goes like stink... B) Imagine that in a Dagger-type chassis! I'm running it with 2x3300 batteries and 2xSuperstock TZs and the ESC is handing that with ease. Plus you can easily make up a connector plug to stop up one of the outputs so you have the option of running 2 batteries or just 1. The XR is not cheap, but you get what you pay for and its really easy to wire in, set up and is very flexible.

Ask Santa if you can put one on your Christmas list!

'Cus girlies can have Minis & Mudpluggers too...

#16 Rabiedmushroom

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:31 PM

Oooh I've just thought of something else to bear in mind.
If you're running that chassis at high speed, consider sticking with a low mounted truck body.
Remember that 'Wessex Water' Blue Landrover I put on mine last year for the first Ham Hill run? It was hopeless; that little extra height/weight tipped it over on corners, and when I rolled (inevitable! :rolleyes: ) it wouldn't land on its 'feet' like with the original Wild Dagger body. My Hpi Landy body is better but its still happily tips over when cornering at high speed, even with softer ground-hugging shock set up. Its not a patch on your Dark Impact...

'Cus girlies can have Minis & Mudpluggers too...

#17 Mad Ax

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:49 AM

I'm running it with 2x3300 batteries and 2xSuperstock TZs and the ESC is handing that with ease.

Are you running your batteries in series or parallel? I thought the TZs would be fried with 14.4 volts...
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#18 secretasianman

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 03:59 PM

My guess they're in parallel. If they were in series, the esc & motors would see the setup as a single 14.4v/12-cell battery and the motors would be close to croaking if they already aren't burnt. However I don't think there's a performance advantage if it were parallel. It'll just appear to the system as a huge 6.6 amp giant that would run really really long. At least that's my take.

#19 Rabiedmushroom

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 09:53 AM

My motors are wired in parallel, and the batteries are wired in series. The ESC will take 12 turns for 12 & 14 cells, so I thought the 2x23 Superstocks would be OK, bearing in mind a big monster truck driving in short spurts. So far, no problems! :lol:
SuperDuty XR (550 sized motors) reference:
Single motor @ 6 cells - no limit
Single motor @ 10, 12 or 14 cells - no limit
Dual motors @ 6 cells - 10 turns
Dual motors @ 10 cells - no limit
Dual motors @ 12 & 14 cells - 12 turns
By the time you've included overseas postage, they cost about 80. Expensive, but serious bit of kit.

'Cus girlies can have Minis & Mudpluggers too...

#20 Mad Ax

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:39 AM

If you're running your batteries in series over parallel motors then I'd keep an eye on the cans. The ESC is fine with 12 cells but Tamiya 540 motors are only rated up to 8 cells - running 12 is likely to fry them ;)

The TZs are rebuildable I believe, so if it fries the brushes you're OK, but I'm not sure if 14v might melt the winds..?
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