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Guide To Blackfoot Chassis Reliability Mods.


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#1 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:29 AM

I've given tips to a number of people in the forum and in private messages of late, on how best to make there blackfoot chassis reliable runners with modern electronics and motors. I repeated myself often enough that I wrote it all down into a txt file and over the last week I've been filling in extra details, to make it a useful guide for anyone planning on making their blackfoot chassis into a runner. It's based on what I've learned from the dozen or so blackfoot chassis i've built or repeared in the last few years, include a couple of leasons learned the hard way.

Anyway I've turned it into a basic web-page and uploaded it to my webspace so anyone can access it, have a look and let me know that you think.

You can find it here: Blackfoot reliability mod guide (old link dead see page two of this thread for the reliablity guide.)

(There are sure to be some spelling and gramma mistakes too, feel free to point them out too.) :angry:
If all else fails burn the manual.

#2 skip665

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:39 AM

Thats fantastic! Only trouble is you have just cost me money as I am going to have to do some of those mods! lol
Drive 'em, don't hide 'em!!

#3 Blacque Jacque

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:00 PM

Hey nice work, that's a superb "How To", best you sign up for a showroom & get it posted in glorious technicolour here on TC ;)

Like Skip said, I can feel my wallet cringing already. :o

#4 billg4

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:30 PM

good start
I know where this picture came from http://homepages.xne...foot/servo3.jpg

http://www.rcmt.net/...hread.php?t=659 ;)



#5 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 08:07 PM

Thats fantastic! Only trouble is you have just cost me money as I am going to have to do some of those mods! lol


Ironically many of the mods I came up with to save money on replacement parts.

Hey nice work, that's a superb "How To", best you sign up for a showroom & get it posted in glorious technicolour here on TC :rolleyes:

Like Skip said, I can feel my wallet cringing already. :o

I've got a showroom it's just embarrassing. It's way out of date with images of my old orange blackfoot but none of my new purple blackfoot, there are still details of my abandoned 4 wheel drive lunchbox crawler project in there, but nothing about my current 4x4 blackfoot project , It shows mudblaster that's never going to be painted at this rate because my painting skills suck that bad. It needs a update bad, I probably will in the near future and post the guide in with my current blackfoot.

good start
I know where this picture came from http://homepages.xne...foot/servo3.jpg

http://www.myrcmt.co...hread.php?t=659 :(


Not sure it was that website that I got it from, but yeah it's borrowed (it's funny how some images have a life of their own on web). Many of the images are just something I had laying around on my HDD, If I get time I'll probably update it with all original images, but I just didn't have the time to take apart my blackfoot to photo everything.
If all else fails burn the manual.

#6 billg4

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 05:27 PM

yes, that's my mod/pic so it came from there :lol:
Also, you should add this one too, it helps stop a lot of breakage

Posted Image

#7 bigoggy

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:20 PM

Thats fantastic! Only trouble is you have just cost me money as I am going to have to do some of those mods! lol

yeah me to :lol:

#8 hoppi05

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 12:41 AM

This is a superb document with excellent information, thankyou very much and look forward to seeing what you may add to this in the future, maybe more performance hop ups? but thanks i am going to start looking at parts asap :D

By the way in the last picture what wheels are tyres are you using? they look pretty cool! di you require adaptors to fit them?

#9 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 10:48 AM

yes, that's my mod/pic so it came from there ;)

I guess your right then :D , hope you don't mind me using it, it's just it took me 30+ hours to put the guide together as it was without taking photos of everything.

Also, you should add this one too, it helps stop a lot of breakage

Posted Image

Looks like a good idea and I agree with you that it's easy to break the H1 (blackfoot) or E3 (super blackfoot) part, so it's a good idea to reinforce it, only problem is on the blackfoot unlike the super blackfoot the front shock tower (part J11) mounts flush to the top of the H1 part so there is no room for a metal plate on top like your picture shows. It's could be done but not without modifying the J11 part, and then there still the problem of the H1 part breaking off level with the front of the frame, which I can't see this fixing. Lucky for everyone, thanks to the re-release Frog & Brat the H parts tree is now easy and cheap to get(no more $100 USD ebay auctions for them), so we have a ready supply of H1 parts as replacements. I not sure how easy it is to get the E parts tree for the super blackfoot, so it's probably wise to reinforce the E3 part incase they become hard to source. (I may have to widen the scope of the guide to include chassis other version of the blackfoot chassis before I add your idea, but thanks for the tip.)

My H1 is protected and reinforced by a big ugly JG front bumper, most people don't like their looks, but they do a great job of taking impacts when you crash head long into something.

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This is a superb document with excellent information, thankyou very much and look forward to seeing what you may add to this in the future, maybe more performance hop ups? but thanks i am going to start looking at parts asap :D

By the way in the last picture what wheels are tyres are you using? they look pretty cool! di you require adaptors to fit them?

There are a whole host of hop-ups I can add, but I'm trying to keep it to the purely practical stuff at the moment. As for performance mods thats easy, do everything on the list so the chassis can take it the extra power and handles well enough that you can drive it at speed.
Posted Image

Then get yourself a 7 Cell 8.4volt hump pack like mine, a good ESC that can run 8.4v I run a Hitec EZR-R Pro, a good high performance motor with a bit of torque, the blackfoot isn't a light truck so while a 17 turn motor may give you a lot of top end speed it will take longer to get up and going, better to choice something with good torque and speed, I run a Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem 550can 22turn motor (loads of torque and plenty of top end speed), remember torque is not your enemy once you do the oldfrogshot screw mod, also make sure you use good motor lead the Trinity Golden No Solder Leads are the easy option, a good high torque servo and your set. Once you do the tranny mods you'll be amazed how much power you can put down to the ground, I had to change the throttle profile in my controller to keep the front wheels on the ground.

The wheels and tires in the last image are Pro-Line Striker II tires on HPI 5 Star wheels, the tires are available everywhere, but I'm not sure if you can still get the wheels they were very common at one point.
If all else fails burn the manual.

#10 billg4

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 05:45 PM

do you have a good shot of the CRP parts??

Posted Image

#11 hoppi05

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 03:01 AM

Hi guys what bearing set(s) do i need if i am using the original Brat and Blaster gear box set ups?

4) Ball bearing kit, replace all the plastic bush bearings and the stock transmission bearings with new bearings. If you using the stock blackfoot spur gear you'll need ten 5 x 11 x 4mm bearings and two 10x 5 x 8 x 2.5mm bearings, if your using the Frog/Brat re-release two piece spur gear you'll need twelve 5 x 11 x 4mm bearings. This takes a lot of the slope out the wheels and axles and makes them run smoother. (Note: Many of the ebay bearing kits don't include enough bearings to replace both the plastic bushes and the shock bearings, so are best avoided)



#12 hoppi05

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 03:04 AM

Also :) lol are these mtors any good for these chassis?...

I have got a Team Orion Core Modified 10 x 3 Motor, Team Orion Peak 19t Element V2 Motor, Vega Flux 19t Motor.

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Posted Image
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What sort of ESC would be needed for these?..

#13 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 06:20 AM

Also :) lol are these mtors any good for these chassis?...

I have got a Team Orion Core Modified 10 x 3 Motor, Team Orion Peak 19t Element V2 Motor, Vega Flux 19t Motor.

What sort of ESC would be needed for these?..


The 19turns are probably ok, the 10 turn will probably be lacking torgue and will probably make the car un-controllable once at top speed. With my 22turn at full throttle I can hear the front tires skidding sideways as I corner on Asphalt, on grass it turns a lot better but borders on rolling over some times. I like the punch of the higher torgue motor gives. Once you choose the motor your going to use, have a play with different combos of spur and pinon gears, this is where the adjustable motor mount is great because you can try no standard combos of gears to find the best option for your setup.

ESC wise, as I've said I run a Hitec EZR-R Pro which is good down to 17turns and up to 7 cells, so it would work with the 19turn motors, the 10turn motor again is a problem as most reversible ESCs max out a 12turn motors, and there is no point having a back yard basher that can't go in reverse. A lot of people run Novak ESCs but most of them are limited to 6cell operation and again I like the punch of 8.4v 7 cell battery to that of a standard 6 cell, but in the end you need something that matches your motor and battery setup and fits your budget.

By the way I like your yellow Mudblaster, I normally prefer them in blue but the bright yellow with the matching wheels works.
If all else fails burn the manual.

#14 hoppi05

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:59 AM

Much appreciated TAZ-NZ and everyone for your good advise i have been taking notes and roll on pay day :( lol and thanks for the nice comments on my Blaster

#15 hoppi05

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:18 AM

what about this ESC

Mtroniks - Viper RV15
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Forwards & Reverse ESC
Direct from the UK, Mtroniks have designed the updated, more intelligent VIPER range of ESCs.
The series consists of forwards only, reversible & marine spec controllers handling every job you can expect from the latest state of the art technology.

NEW built in failsafe to protect against complete loss of signal or when out of range (compatible with all manufacturers receivers)**INDUSTRY FIRST**
ABSOLUTE short circuit and motor overload protection
15 turn motor limit
Dual core microprocessor
4-8 cells input voltage
Adjustable features include programmable punch on the forwards only range and programmable reverse (including disable) & programmable brakes on the reversible range
4 Layer super power circuit board
Thermal integrated protection system
Digital one touchset up
Legendary 100% waterproof design
Dimensions : L39.0mm x W34.0mm x H13.0mm
Weight : 55g
All VIPER ESCs are capable of running the highest capacity cells available & the latest high spec motors. Each VIPER ESC incorporates a 1.2A BEC and the latest state of the art technology and GEN-Xi power FETs!
VIPER - ULTIMATE RELIABILITY


Code: VIPRV15
Price 34.99

This has a 15 turn motor limit so thats cool for my 19 turn motor? :(

Or theres this once at a simlar price?...

Novak XRS Sport Reverse
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XRS Reversible Sport Speed Control
Although the XRS is priced inexpensively, this little reversible ESC is full of features normally found in higher-priced speed controls, such as One-Touch Set-Up, a low 15-turn Motor Limit, and a more effective Smart Braking feature known as Smart Braking II. The small size of the XRS is another draw for R/C enthusiasts.
Novak engineers have equipped the XRS with their latest achievement: a newer, more effective Smart Braking feature. The new Smart Braking II feature provides full braking power. With more controllable braking, R/C drivers now have a full range of braking without worrying about accidentally sending the vehicle into reverse. To engage reverse, the driver must return the throttle to the neutral position, then "shift" into reverse by returning the throttle toward the reverse/braking direction. This feature gives the driver more controlled take-offs in reverse, while being easier on the car's drive train. So whether you are just starting out in R/C, or are expertly maneuvering your vehicle down a challenging embankment, the XRS Reversible Sport Speed Control is a great choice at a great price.


XRS REVERSIBLE SPORT SPEED CONTROL SPECIFICATIONS
Input Voltage: 4-6 cells NiMH (1.2V/cell) or 2S Li-Po when used with Novak's Smart-Stop Li-Po Module (#5470)
Footprint: 1.31” x 1.10” (3.33cm x 2.79cm)
Weight: 1.27 oz. (36.0 g)
Motor Limit: 15 turns (at 6 cells)
On-Resistance: 0.0055 ohms (Fwd/Rev)
Drive Frequency: 1000 Hz
Brake Frequency: 1000 Hz
Rated Current: 40 Amps (Fwd/Rev) @ 25C MOSFET Temp.
Braking Current: 40 Amps (Fwd/Rev) @ 25C MOSFET Temp.
B.E.C.: 1.0 amp @ 5 VDC
Motor Connector: Bullet
Battery Connector: Tamiya

XRS REVERSIBLE SPORT SPEED CONTROL FEATURES
Microprocessor-controlled
One-Touch Set-Up
Smart Braking II
Radio-Priority Circuitry
Thermal Shutdown Protection Technology
Polar-Drive Circuitry



#16 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 07:15 AM

I found myself with a bit of time on my hands, so i whipped up a CAD drawing of all the parts in a trinty Rear Anti-Sway bar.

sway1.jpg
sway2.jpg
sway3.jpg

The images are rendered in Rhino CAD which I used to draw the parts, you'll find in the attach .Zip file a copy of the CAD drawing in .3dm .dxf .dwg formats.

The drawings are not 0.01mm purfect, but they are close enough that they should be useful to anyone who might wish to make there own sway bar.
If all else fails burn the manual.

#17 Rcfreak363

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 09:07 PM

yes, that's my mod/pic so it came from there ;)
Also, you should add this one too, it helps stop a lot of breakage

Posted Image

if its not a problem, can you post a pic of just that metal piece, because mine seems to limit the front suspention down travel.


thank you
T-Maxx.15/Stadium Blitzer/Super Blackfoot/Micro Baja/Lunchbox

#18 Rcfreak363

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 02:43 AM

never mind to my last post, i fixed it, btw does some one have better pics for the steering mod for the super blackoot, i cant get it to work with out rubbing
T-Maxx.15/Stadium Blitzer/Super Blackfoot/Micro Baja/Lunchbox

#19 Needler56

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 12:37 AM

great information! seems like the screw mod for the diff is a great alternative to the thorp diff. would the screw mod be necessary for a 19x1 motor? i've been running an rs540 and plan on dropping in a 19x1. i have however ran a 14x4 and a 10x1. the diff plates are definately splitsville once off road with the 10x1

#20 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 06:18 AM

great information! seems like the screw mod for the diff is a great alternative to the thorp diff. would the screw mod be necessary for a 19x1 motor? i've been running an rs540 and plan on dropping in a 19x1. i have however ran a 14x4 and a 10x1. the diff plates are definately splitsville once off road with the 10x1


I'd rate the screw mod a must for any runner, even with the stock motor you get a curtain level of slip going from forward to reverse. Anything other than a stock motor will have issue with diff slip. High torque motors are worse than high rpm motors at distroying diffs.
If all else fails burn the manual.

#21 Rcfreak363

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 02:00 AM

if its not a problem, can you post a pic of just that metal piece, because mine seems to limit the front suspention down travel.
thank you

hello, can any one help me with this?
T-Maxx.15/Stadium Blitzer/Super Blackfoot/Micro Baja/Lunchbox

#22 TAZ-NZ

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:36 AM

The link on my original post has been dead for some months, and while I kept a copy zipped on my harddrive for those people the sent me PM to see if I still had a copy, I figured it was time I updated it a little, and posted it where it was availablet to everyone again.

So here it is again, there have been a lot of changes, a few additions here and there a couple of new mods to replace old expensive ones, a few old spelling mistakes corrected and probably a dozen new ones made :rolleyes:


How to tweak a orgianl Blackfoot chassis to be a modern day runner.
(applicable to Original Blackfoot, Monster Beetle & Mud Blaster)


This list of tweaks and mods for orginal blackfoot chassis, that will increase it's strength, reliablity, and handling, without effecting it's basic looks and character. It's based on the knowledge I've accumulated over the last four years while building, repairing and modding a number ORV Chassis kits.

Note: the following presumes you have a stock chassis that is complete and in basic working order. If you haven't already download a copy of the Blackfoot manual, it wouldn't hurt to grab the Super Blackfoot manual too.

To start with is a list of mods that should be done to any blackfoot chassis before using it as a runner.

1) Get yourself a Super/King Blackfoot B-Parts Tree, Tamiya part No: 9005350, as picture below, you will also need six 3x8mm self tapping screws (parts BB6).

Posted ImagePosted Image

You want to remove the original servo cover (part G9) and remove the original aluminum MSC mounting tray, replace this with the plastic B1 part off the new B-parts tree and screw it into place with four of the 3x8mm screws. This allows you to mount the new servo cover (part B10) to both the front shock tower (part J11) and to the new B1 part using the remaining two 3x8mm screws, in doing this the new servo cover acts as a brace the front shock tower. This greatly reducing the chances of breaking the front shock tower.


2) Get a new set of Frog/Brat re-release diff bevel gears as pictured below.

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These should always be replaced on any used chassis even then they look ok. This is the greatest weak point of the whole frog family chassis and always wear badly. (For the fix for the wear issue see item 3)


3) Buy a set of Frog/Brat universal joint axles, Tamiya Part No: 53908 (note get them from ebay they are cheaper there), you will also need 2.5x25mm counter sunk screw, some lock tight, and diff grease.

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Apply the oldfrogshot's screw mod to the drive cups, use the screw to hold the drive cups together as per the mod, apply some diff grease to the head of the screw and the bottom of the unthreaded drive cup so that it slips with ease, use the lock tight on the tip of the screw thread to lock it in place in threaded drive cup as pre the mod. (the screw mod is a must do, unless you like replacing the bevel gears ever half dozen battery charges)


4) Ball bearing kit, replace all the plastic bush bearings and the stock transmission bearings with new bearings. If you using the stock blackfoot spur gear you'll need ten 5 x 11 x 4mm bearings and two 10x 5 x 8 x 2.5mm bearings, if your using the Frog/Brat re-release two piece spur gear you'll need twelve 5 x 11 x 4mm bearings.

Posted Image

This takes a lot of the slope out the wheels and axles and makes them run smoother. (Note: Many of the ebay bearing kits don't include enough bearings to replace both the plastic bushes and the shock bearings, so are best avoided)


That ends the first section of must do's, now onto the highly recommend mods.


5) Buy a Super blackfoot/Dush Devil damper bag, Tamiya part No 9405685, cut the rubber tube SD8 and fit to radius arm screws, as seen in the picture below.

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This helps remove a lot of slop out of the front suspension.


6) Presuming your using a modern radio gear with an ESC (Electronic Speed control) you only need one servo, so get your self some continously threaded rod. Mount your servo at an angle so that it's is centered to the chassis as, in the image below. At the same time I suggest binning the stock servo saver in favour of a Kimbrough Item.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Then make new steering rods by cutting the threaded rod to length. This fixes the un-even steering and makes the car corner equally well in both directions. (don't waste money on ebay heavy duty steering kits)


7) Pickup two sets of Yeah Racing 80mm alloy shocks and some damper fluid, these can be picked up cheap on ebay, and a huge improvement of the both the stock friction and CVA shocks, as they have threaded adjusters and multiple spring sets so you can adjust the spring rates and pre-load to improve handling. (Ther are avilable in blue, silver, black, but don't come filled with damper fluid, so you need to purchase it seperatly.)

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8) Pickup a Mad Bull Steering Arm Bag, Tamiya Part no: 9415376, a Super/King Blackfoot F-tree, Tamiya Part no: 0005419, 2x BA7 3mm Flanged nuts, and 2x 3x20m count sunk bolts.

Posted ImagePosted Image

You only need the left & right uprights for the Mad bull steering bag, fit the left upright to the super blackfoot F3 part and the right to F2 part (this is the opposite to the super blackfoot manual) to do this you can either cut down the black stock BM3 parts to lenght or grab a Super Blackfoot rod bag, Tamiya part No: 9405687 and use the BS4 parts from that.

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Then mount onto each of the uprights using the 3x20mm counter sunk bolts and the BA7 3mm flanged nuts, a bolt though ballend like those circle in the picture of yeah racing damper kit above.

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Replace the end of the shock that attachs to the front suspension arm with a smartard 4mm rod end and clip this over the ballend you've just mounted, everything else mounts just like the stock item.


9) Pick your self up a set of Re-release Frog/Brat pressed parts and a 3x8mm screw (part BB6), remove the origirnal short aluminum under tray and fit the longer frog version of the under tray.

Posted Image

This braces the front of the chassis better and stops it flexing, which helps handling.


10) Remove the posts for your newly install plastic MSC mount (see picture below) and fit your receive there so it is protected under the servo cover. (don't mount your ESC here it will tend to overheat)

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11) Get yourself two 3x20mm screws (parts BA3) and two 3mm nuts (parts BA7), remove the screw holding the rear body mounts (parts J1,J6) to the chassis, replace the original 3x15mm with the new longer screws, once the screw clear the chassis place the nuts on and tighten them down. This stops the body mounts moving about and helps prevent the G1 part breaking. (the G1 is extremely hard to get these days)


12) Think about getting a set of CRP heavy duty rear shock mounts.

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Replace the stock items (parts J8,J9) with these, they flex less that the stock items and help the keep the rear shocks straight, reducing stress of the rear arms. (These are a vintage hop-up but are fairly easy to come by on ebay)


13) Replace the rear swing arm support (parts K3,K7) with the aluminum frog items you got with the pressed parts.

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These don't flex and help keep the rear end from sagging. Grease them with candle wax to help reduce wear. (I suggest getting them Annodized black or painting them black to keep the stock look)


14) Use the two screws (parts BA4) you took out of the body mounts, and get two 3mm nuts(BA7), remove the screws mounting the shocks to the rear swing arms, With a drill bit the same diameter as the BA4 screws, enlarge the shock mounting holes in the rear arms so that new screw just fit with out needing to be screwed it, re-assembly with the BA4 screws using the 3mm nuts to hold them in place.

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This reduces the stress of the mounting holes and helps stop them cracking.


15) Pickup a complete set of re-release Frog/Brat transmission and pinon gears and make sure you get the wire C-Clip.(note the original brass frog counter gear & a steal pinon will wear better than the re-release aluminum items) Also see if you can pickup a CRP adjustable motor mount or the modern CRA Preformance version pictured below.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

This will allow you change your gear ratios and run non-standard gear combos, a must for tuning your setup to match a modern high preformance motor.


16) See if you can hunt down a Trinity rear sway bar kit, helps the rear end a no end, stops roll overs when corning at speed & stop the rear swing arms (parts B6) spreading, which causes the the rear axles to jump out of the drive cups.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

CRA Preformance also makes a reproduction version of the sway bar kit now, that can be found on ebay from time to time.


17) Get yourself tamiya style hump pack battery that is designed to fit an old school frog/blackfoot chassis battery compartment, or if you have need for speed like me, get a custom 8.4v 7 cell pack made.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


That's it for now, keep on bashing.


One of these days I'll be able to bring myself to tear down my blackfoot at take pictures of all the mods, but until then sorry to those poeple who's pictures I've nicked. ;)
If all else fails burn the manual.

#23 Leethal Driver

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 10:57 PM

This is a first rate guide. Good job I'm selling my Hornet runner, gonna need the cash to get some of the upgrades for my MB! The wife got me the CRP chassis brace for christmas and it rocks, makes such a diff to the rigidity of the whole set up. Came up with the idea of drilling out the rear shock mounts and using M3 screws and lock nuts with my dad the other week (they break easier than Jack Bauer's enemies let's face it) before I saw this article - nice to know I'm beginning to think lik a pro!

Top stuff!

#24 thedoginthewok

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:38 PM

@ Number 3

How do you remove that rod from drive cup of the 53908 set ?

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Brushless Blackfoot!

#25 NJhopper

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:07 AM

@ Number 3

How do you remove that rod from drive cup of the 53908 set ?

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Im not exactly sure you can remove that piece. With those I think the only thing you can do is cut it off at the base.
Also, please don't post in threads that have been dormant for 2 years now.

NJhopper's "see if it breaks" school of engineering-Jonny Retro
"Parts Gopher"



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