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Hop-up Front Suspension For Tamiya Brat/fog?


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#1 flight23

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 05:37 PM

Hi,

I'm looking to modify and upgrade the shocks of my Tamiya Brat. I'm sure most of you know it sits on the "Frog" chassis. I just purchased the hop-up shock towers and hardware from TeamCRP on ebay:

Ebay Auction

I sent TeamCRP an email about shock recommendations but they never responded back. According to their auction, 55mm shocks should be compatible. Can anyone recommend any high quality shocks that would fit this kit??? Has anyone upgraded their Frog or Brat with success? Also, any good shocks or mods for the rear suspension as well? Here's some pics of what my Brat looks like:

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Thanks for any responses in advance!!

#2 gozone

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 07:48 AM

Nice looking Brat there. :D

I have the CRP-conversion on my runner Frog, and i have just used original CRP shocks, made for the same set of towers. :D Take a look in my showroom.. There should be a few pics of it..

Cheers...
Michael

GO FOR IT!!!    Visit my showroom: http://www.tamiyaclu...oom.asp?id=7812

 

 


#3 Corona Powered

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 09:50 PM

I also purchased the CRP front shock towers. They're sitting in a box right now. If you look long enough on Ebay, there's a guy that sells sets of the original CRP shocks that go with these towers, but other members on Tamiya Club said they were poorly designed/leaked/not worth it. I got really frustrated about a year ago, and then I got serious about finding a solution, because I love the Brat and I wanted it to run as good as it looked. SO, after many failed attempts at trying for shocks that would work with the CRP mounts in front I gave up. Nothing on the market has the right amount of travel. And if you want it to handle good, you want to retain the full travel that the suspension has available. The best solution is to get a 2 sets of the readily available Tamiya CVA black short shocks (part # 50520). For the lower pivot, attach them to the outboard metal suspension pieces that pivot the A arms. Then construct your own front shock tower out of sheet polystyrene - you don't need anything stronger, I've been running mine for about 8 months now without problems. I'll try and post of picture tonight of my setup on the Brat. In the meantime, here is a link to the short wheelbase Brat that I built that uses the same front suspension setup. The only difference is that the front mount uses one bolt at the top to mount both shocks because the Mini body needed to sit a little lower. Good luck with your Brat. It looks nicely detailed.
http://www.tamiyaclu...a...71&id=23407
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#4 HunterZero

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 07:40 AM

Yeah, as said before, those front CRP dampers are really bad. They just don't work too well at all, and the spring tensioning collars are fragile.

I have the CRP damper stay towers, but I have 60mm Yeah racing alloy dampers on there, and they are much better. Just about a perfect fit.

Rears need to be about 75mm... You can either get the 80mm Yeah racing ones to match the front, or the re-re Frog dampers, which work better than the original Frog rear dampers.

- James

#5 HunterZero

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 07:43 AM

Here was the original thread about it...

Frog Front Shocks

- James

#6 flight23

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:21 PM

I appreciate and thanks to all for your responses.

Hey HunterZero, I just purchased both pairs of Yeah Racing Dampers on ebay (60mm & 80mm). It wasn't cheap, $50 US which included shipping and insurance. The auction for the 60mm shocks included two pairs where I only needed one. The seller wasn't willing to sell just one pair and so I went forth with the auction. I guess I'll try selling this extra pair of 60mm Yeah racing dampers on here when they are delivered.

Anyone interested? If you go to ebay and search for Yeah Dampers 60mm, you can see the shocks. Model (DP-1003TI)

TeamCRP finally responded and mentioned that 55mm shocks is the length I should look for. Yeah Racing also sells 55mm shocks and was just wondering why everyone is buying the 60mm... I assume TeamCRP is incorrect with their measurements or 60mm is a better fit.

Yeah, as said before, those front CRP dampers are really bad. They just don't work too well at all, and the spring tensioning collars are fragile.

I have the CRP damper stay towers, but I have 60mm Yeah racing alloy dampers on there, and they are much better. Just about a perfect fit.

Rears need to be about 75mm... You can either get the 80mm Yeah racing ones to match the front, or the re-re Frog dampers, which work better than the original Frog rear dampers.

- James



#7 jonth

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:52 PM

I have tried 60mm yeah racing shocks on my Re-released Brat:

http://www.tamiyaclu...a...60&id=18522

But after a day of vintage racing:

http://www.vimeo.com/1698551

I removed them before the final. The problem is that brat/frog chassis is very light at the front, and with the shocks on the suspension was to hard. The problem is even worse with the original brat, due to the rubber tubing used on the front radius arms.

The frog dampers work well on the rear wheels (standard on the re-released brat).

The worst problem on the track was the front tires, and it was impossible to drive the car at full speed (with sport tuned motor). I changed to sand scorcher front tires after a few rounds with much better result.

My runner has the following upgrades (compared to my original brat):

- Sport tuned motor (more than enough for this car!)
- Proline front tires on sand viper wheels
- Proline hole shot rear tires
- TeamCrp rear shock mounts
- Re-released oil dampers rear(*)
- 50473 Hi-torque Servo Saver
- Re-released bumper and server guard(*)
- 53913 The Frog (2005) Alu. Wheel Adapter
- Lexan body (*)
- Rear dog bones(*)
(*) Standard from the re-released brat.

My suggestion? Keep your beautiful brat as it is, buy a new frog/brat, replace the motor, (front wheels if a brat) and servo saver, and have fun!

Jon.

#8 Corona Powered

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 07:42 AM

Please post a full report of how the Yeah Racing shocks work out for you.

Here is a link to my Brat in my showroom running the Tamiya CVA shocks with a custom front mount. I also listed details of my spring and damper settings. It makes for one of the best handling 2wd RC cars I've ever had. But most importantly, it keeps this truck off its roof - you don't want to ruin that paint job!

Good luck.

The link...

http://www.tamiyaclu...a...34&id=23407
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#9 flight23

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:02 PM

Most definitely Corona Powered. Still waiting for my shocks to come in as well as some other parts. I also picked up a Lexan Body to use when I'm running the car which will allow me to save my original resin model body for the shelf. Thanks for posting the pics of your "extreme modded" Brat. One of the best Brats I've ever seen!! I'd to get some tips from you as far as where you bought your parts and how you modified/fabricated your tranny, suspension, and frame.

Thanks again...

Please post a full report of how the Yeah Racing shocks work out for you.

Here is a link to my Brat in my showroom running the Tamiya CVA shocks with a custom front mount. I also listed details of my spring and damper settings. It makes for one of the best handling 2wd RC cars I've ever had. But most importantly, it keeps this truck off its roof - you don't want to ruin that paint job!

Good luck.

The link...

http://www.tamiyaclu...a...34&id=23407



#10 HereBeMonsters

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:40 PM

Just got to say, nice pics. I need to get myself a Brat as well as the VLB I think...
M03 Mini Cooper/TT-01 Lancia Delta Integrale/Bear Hawk/Lunch Box/Hornet/
Avante 2001 QD/Avante 2001 DF-03/Clod Buster/Pajero/Nissan KingCab/
Losi Micro-T Desert Truck/Mardave Caterham/and I love Mini 4wds!

#11 deejay1711

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:44 PM

with the crp front mounts, i have 60mm front and 80mm rear, yeah racing bought from RCMart and if i remember rightly didn't set me back a fortune. I much prefer it to any original shocks but never tried the re re rears so couldn't comment. i also think they look much better. basically the same as hunter zero has said so for the curious of you yeah racing shocks are a very good option in my opinion

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#12 HunterZero

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:14 AM

Yeah Racing 60mm dampers only come in a set of four, as they're sold as a set for touring cars.

The problem I had was I originally used the CRP shocks, which were rubbish, and I still had the original front springs in, so the front suspension was way too hard and you get no steering. Front end kept bouncing around everywhere. Taking out the internal springs helped somewhat... :D Yeah Racing dampers aren't TRF, but they are light years better than the CRP ones.

The light weight at the front and stubby front arms don't help either, it makes it difficult to get it working right with a damper. You need to use about the softest possible oil/springs/pistons. To properly mod a Frog/Brat for racing you'd need to replace the front arms with longer ones, and add a top turnbuckle. Like this... Frog 4WD IFS

The re-re Frog rear dampers are very good though, far better than the originals.

- James

#13 Live Steam Mad

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:14 AM

a day of vintage racing:

http://www.vimeo.com/1698551


Wow, fascinating video, and a great track, just the right size! Thanks for sharing! :D

Cheers,

Alistair G.
in NW & want to recreate vintage FUN races? Contact me!
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#14 acorn

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:44 PM

Yeah Racing 60mm dampers only come in a set of four, as they're sold as a set for touring cars.

The problem I had was I originally used the CRP shocks, which were rubbish, and I still had the original front springs in, so the front suspension was way too hard and you get no steering. Front end kept bouncing around everywhere. Taking out the internal springs helped somewhat... :D Yeah Racing dampers aren't TRF, but they are light years better than the CRP ones.

The light weight at the front and stubby front arms don't help either, it makes it difficult to get it working right with a damper. You need to use about the softest possible oil/springs/pistons. To properly mod a Frog/Brat for racing you'd need to replace the front arms with longer ones, and add a top turnbuckle. Like this... Frog 4WD IFS

The re-re Frog rear dampers are very good though, far better than the originals.

- James


Stuff the front end, those frog shaped battery holders are a must !!!!!! :D

#15 robster959

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 04:57 AM

What a great track. Nice combination of everything.

I've got a pair of the CRP shocks, but no mounts. I was going to get a set of the mounts to use with the CRP shocks, but that doesn't like a great idea anymore. I've also got a Parma Front shock, which is a monoshock going across the hood. Anybody have any experience with one of these?

Rob

#16 Corona Powered

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 06:05 AM

Great thread!

Man, that 4wd Frog is amazing. The attention to detail is crazy. That person went to insane lengths to keep the "frogginess" of the chassis. The carbon fiber work is top notch. I agree, the frog battery holders are probably the coolest bit. That, and the inboard front suspension.
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#17 flight23

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:26 AM

with the crp front mounts, i have 60mm front and 80mm rear, yeah racing bought from RCMart and if i remember rightly didn't set me back a fortune. I much prefer it to any original shocks but never tried the re re rears so couldn't comment. i also think they look much better. basically the same as hunter zero has said so for the curious of you yeah racing shocks are a very good option in my opinion

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That's a sick chassis deejay1711!!! Is that chrome paint?? If so, how is it holding up? I may take my Brat apart and do the same thing. Can you give me tips on how you painted the chassis??

#18 HunterZero

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:50 PM

Great thread!

Man, that 4wd Frog is amazing. The attention to detail is crazy. That person went to insane lengths to keep the "frogginess" of the chassis. The carbon fiber work is top notch. I agree, the frog battery holders are probably the coolest bit. That, and the inboard front suspension.


Yeah, it's very impressive, especially how he's fitted upgraded steering rack, belt drive 4WD and IFS and still managed to fit it all under the original bodyshell unmodified over the top. As well as all the nice little touches like the battery holders, and front 2WD wheel hub adapters for 4WD.

I look at the Frog body shell with the bulges on the bonnet, and it just looks like it was meant for IFS, with the shocks transverse under the bulges. Keeps the original look of the Frog, like an F1 car with no dampers in sight.

Would love to have the time and tools to do at least the IFS conversion!

There's a double IFS Hotshot which is equally as amazing. Again, keeps the original 'look' of the car with the front monoshock:

Grahoo's Hotshot

- James

#19 HunterZero

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 12:58 AM

Another note on the Frog's handling (and the Hornet and Grasshopper for that matter) - the original tires are part of the shock absorbing system. Fitting newer lower profile tires exposes more of the shortfalls of the suspension, front and rear. It's actually preferable to keep the original tires on it.

- James

#20 Prag79

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:19 PM

Check out www.50calibercustoms.net. They have couple of Mods Aluminum front and rear arms. Also check out Seller: dinball on ebay, has Yeah racing Suspension sets.

#21 larbut

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:16 AM

But after a day of vintage racing:
http://www.vimeo.com/1698551


Hi Jon,
Thanks for the Video, brings back good memories. You shold not be complaining about suspension trouble, just look at my Rough Rider jumping all over the place, lol B)

-Lars

#22 MAD RACER

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

My Frog is so good on the race track.

It can keep up with my fox in sport tune class.

Its the Black and yellow one in the frog front shocks forum.

The little YOU-G front dampers work so well. I get full suspensiom throw. I made my own mounting points for these as i didn't get instructions;

Yes they leak but a little thread tape helped alot. Drilled one hole in the solid brass pistons and 30wt oil.

The rear shocks are easy to match. The secret is not too stiff springs. I used CAT 3000 front shocks with blue springs. I have a little droop at ride height and it has heaps of rear end grip.

Vintage all the way!!!!!!   




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