27 replies to this topic

[Live Steam Mad]

Hi, I am building a custom Sand Scorcher and was wanting to use Kyosho Optima dampers on the front (and probably on the rear as well as I tried the front Optima dampers on the rear end of my SRB and it works fine, fits OK, but still needs the assistance of softened torsion bars from the stock kit setup in order to return the wheels to positive camber after suspension is compressed then released (the daft characteristic of the SRB's ) because of the heavy chassis (you can get away with stock Optima springs adjusted i.e. compressed by about 15mm if you only want level suspension!)

I have a complete set of front and rear dampers from an Optima in pretty nice condition but don't really want to use them on this custom bug as I wanted to complete my Optima restoration one day LOL.

I also happen to have 4 shock bodies and piston assemblies from Optima front dampers (although no springs) BUT the anodising is VERY faded. Not sure if the original Optima anodising was red or pink/purple (they seem to be always pink/purple when you see them these days, 26 years on).

Then I read years ago about this guy using Dykem to coat the shocks with or at least touch them up in his Scorpion resto', where he mentions that the Dykem Steel Red layout fluid (marking fluid / marking out fluid) is a "very" close match for the original Scorpion dampers color ;-

http://www.rollerbros.com/id46.htm (wasn't this gassinine designs ages ago?)

At the time I left the idea as hopeless as ITW Dykem is an American company and difficult for me to order from.

However SCL Maintenance are doing a "fair" price on the Steel Red dye of 6.22 GBP plus VAT so I finally got round to ordering one of the 8oz (225 grams approx, so over 200ml I suppose) bottles with brush applicator in it. Even if postage was 5 quid ;-

http://www.sclmainte...?product_id=203

I'll hopefully take some pictures of what the dampers look like once I have managed to coat them in Dykem Steel Red (and compared to the originals) and post them here.

Here's another good view of what the dye looks like (although it's on Brass so maybe a tad inaccurate?) ;-

http://www.builderof.../harmonica.html

(scroll down to see it).

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[RichieRich]

Cool, this should net some interesting results.

[fristajlo]

Alistair, how did this work out?

[ATRC2011]

??????? Dykem fluid is only good for laying out holes and laying out scribed surfaces . Not to coat shock shaft to color them????? It will wear off in time from the friction.

[fristajlo]

Would be no problem for me and my shelfers
Curious though how this worked out for Alistair before I try it myself....

[Live Steam Mad]

Sorry for the delay guys, been heavily involved with vintage video gaming / console mod's, but I am just now getting the last of the pink anodizing off one of my shocks and getting ready to apply some dye. Maybe I can somehow hard coat or bake the item in my oven afterwards to harden the coating?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[ATRC2011]

Sorry for the delay guys, been heavily involved with vintage video gaming / console mod's, but I am just now getting the last of the pink anodizing off one of my shocks and getting ready to apply some dye. Maybe I can somehow hard coat or bake the item in my oven afterwards to harden the coating?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

That won't work. It will wipe right off with alchol wipes. You need to anodize them again.

[Live Steam Mad]

That won't work. It will wipe right off with alchol wipes. You need to anodize them again.

Well I do notice that the spring on one of my used Optima shocks, rides close to but not actually touching the shock body, and so unless it is smashed into by another car I don't see how the red can come off the shock body easily and can be touched up for ever LOL. It's water resistant also for when I go to the beach with the buggy. I won't be planning on getting solvents near it but you're right it comes off with Isopropyl Alcohol.

The red dye snells exactly like Tamiya's liquid PolyStrene Cement in the orange hexagonal jar. It's very runny buy just very slightly viscous. It's like a lacquer. It's fairly easy to apply. I used P400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 3000 Silicon Carbide used dry on the shock body to remove scratches and coated it with the stuff.

The red dye dries on the shock body like a ruby, a jewel red. Nothing like the pink anodising on my used Optima shocks. So much for a color match LOL. Although it's probably closer to my NIP Scorpion shocks that I have, to be fair.

I think I went too far by using the P3000, it's way smoother than the fairly rough micro finish on my used Optima shocks.

Well at least the shock body looks a heck of a lot better than it did before I started (anodising had faded like you wouldn't believe).

Here's a picture. The shock with the spring on is the used Optima shock, the other has had Dykem Steel Red Layout Fluid applied to it using the brush-in-cap that came with the Dykem ;-

Once again the flash shows up every slightest flaw. Looks way better in real life under domestic lighting.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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[Live Steam Mad]

A person just contacted me regarding this topic with insults and personal attacks, that are not allowed on TC. The coward didn't tell me his TC user name so I don't which TC member sent it to me. Well congratulations whoever you are, you just made the first ever on my blocked list in my e-mail client. Maybe this is one for the moderators. I just wanted to know who insulted me LOL. Go on, post here I dare you.

EDIT : Your e-mail has been forwarded to the moderators.

ARG.

[Live Steam Mad]

For the record, I do like originality but frequently cannot afford it. So sometimes I try experiments like this where I read about someone else doing the same thing. The guy obviously took exception to me trying what someone else had done LOL. I think the shocks look nice, which is all that matters to me. Maybe I'll be able to get some originals NIP one day. But for my custom Scorcher I didn't actually require original Optima shocks, as these shocks were never meant for an Optima restoration.

I know full well what anodizing entails and why it's such a hard finish but I am not in the financial position to set up an anodizing rig at home and if I could afford to have them reanodized I'd instead buy NOS ones of course.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad]

OK this is getting out of hand. I just received another insulting e-mail from a TC member, this time from a different name but it's obviously the same person. What is this, a make up your name day?

Again it's been sent to the moderators. Hopefully the person's TC name will be revealed. Here preferably!

I have nothing to say to the sender re: this topic unless it's here. I have never experienced this sort of thing before on TC.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[fristajlo]

The anonymous insults are just sad, I hope it will end.

The finished shock looks good to me. Almost too good Perhaps a P1000 or P1200 would suffice?
Do you know if the shocks on the Landjump were the same red colour when new? Mine are really, really pink nowadays.

[mugenbulldog]

I like the red better than the pink. You could probably plastidip them red and that might turn out OK too. I just might do that to a set of gold shocks and post the pictures on TC, especially if I might get insulting emails in return!

OK this is getting out of hand. I just received another insulting e-mail from a TC member, this time from a different name but it's obviously the same person. What is this, a make up your name day?

Again it's been sent to the moderators. Hopefully the person's TC name will be revealed. Here preferably!

I have nothing to say to the sender re: this topic unless it's here. I have never experienced this sort of thing before on TC.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[SKIPP]

The red is definatly closer to the original
from what I remember from kyosho kits
from the early 80's,if thats what your trying to achieve.
I don't remember them having that pinkish,purplish
color.I think thats just what they fade down to.
I like the results.
skip

[metalmickey0]

The red is definatly closer to the original
from what I remember from kyosho kits
from the early 80's,if thats what your trying to achieve.
I don't remember them having that pinkish,purplish
color.I think thats just what they fade down to.
I like the results.
skip

I dont remember red. the kyosho shocks i got are gold ones. And they now on my 1/18th scale lrp shark. They came of an Ultima i had many moons ago. And i dont see why you were getting nasty emails, i didnt read anyhting un toward

[Live Steam Mad]

I am interested to know what color the Optima dampers originally were. I have never seen a close up of them from a NIB Optima kit. Maybe some kind soul out there would provide a picture from their NIB? Or Ultima NIB / NIP front shocks as they are the same as the Optima front shocks.

In my 1986 English full Kyosho catalog it shows the Optima dampers as being slightly purple-pink but quite a lot of red. My used ones are distinctly metallic mid-pink which is annoying.

Here is a comparison photo showing my NIP Scorpion SC10 and SC11 shocks versus one of my used Optima shocks (with Raider shock collar) and my Dykem fun-experiment. I have never even seen a NIP pair of Optima dampers. If I ever found some I would find that small 'shock undo' tool to be rather useful.

If anyone is ever offering to anodize used dampers back to very close to the original color, I'm all ears LOL. It'd have to be a pretty low price though or I'm stuffed.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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[Live Steam Mad]

I noticed that my used Optima shocks leak quite a bit. I thought that it was the O ring so I remembered that I had a few years ago bought some CRP 1529 O rings (3mm) which are said to fit these exact shocks and that they stop the leaks. I just tried one and it was a nice damping action but it leaked quite quickly when I only hand tightened the shock as hard as I could (didn't want to risk stripping the Aluminium). There was a small pool of shock oil under it when it was lying on my work table.

So this time I have used the small Stanley brand Philips screwdriver with the blue handle and gripped the Shock Stopper in large pliers with a cloth so I don't mark the stopper and tightened it just about as much as I thought the Aluminium could stand. We'll see if it leaks. The problem appears to be the plastic Shock Seal not the O ring. The Shock Seal is a plastic material not rubber like on the Gallop Mk2 shocks. Perhaps it needs to be this tight in order to not leak, on the Optima shocks, or maybe the Shock Seal is damaged or too old or something.

Anyway if the shock leaks then to heck with it and I'll have to try another shock on my custom Scorcher, such as a Gallop MK2 shock, as my used Gallop MK2 ones don't leak. I'll report back if it leaks this time.

EDIT : OK left the Optima shock for 24 hours and it still shows no sign of leaking or weaping so I'm happy. Originally when I rebuilt the other used shock it weaped since I didn't tighten the Shock Seal up enough, and the O ring was too worn. Now this one has a new CRP O ring and I've tightened the shock properly it doesn't leak at all after testing the damping action.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Max Power]

If it is leaking from the shock seal would it be worth trying some Teflon/plumbers tape on the thread?
Also has any tried Tamiya X-27 (clear red) as a substitute for anodizing?

[Live Steam Mad]

If it is leaking from the shock seal would it be worth trying some Teflon/plumbers tape on the thread?
Also has any tried Tamiya X-27 (clear red) as a substitute for anodizing?

Fortunately when properly tightened they stopped leaking completely. Actually one of my used Optima shocks where the anodising had almost completely gone was tightened way more than I would dare by a previous owner and I found 3-in-1 style mineral oil in it which was like water!! So you can get them to stop leaking completely if you tighten them just enough. But be careful as it's only fine threads in a soft metal...

I never thought to try the Tamiya X-27 Clear Red. I have some in the Enamel jar (the square one), might try it on this next shock I'm doing just as another fun experiment.

BTW the Dykem didn't come off yet despite the handling and working the shocks up and down. Wonder how much it costs to have them anodised by a typical local engineering company?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[ATRC2011]

Fortunately when properly tightened they stopped leaking completely. Actually one of my used Optima shocks where the anodising had almost completely gone was tightened way more than I would dare by a previous owner and I found 3-in-1 style mineral oil in it which was like water!! So you can get them to stop leaking completely if you tighten them just enough. But be careful as it's only fine threads in a soft metal...

I never thought to try the Tamiya X-27 Clear Red. I have some in the Enamel jar (the square one), might try it on this next shock I'm doing just as another fun experiment.

BTW the Dykem didn't come off yet despite the handling and working the shocks up and down. Wonder how much it costs to have them anodised by a typical local engineering company?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

As easy as you brushed it on it will come off real easy with denatured rubbing alchol or CA debonder. Layont fluid is used for laying out scribed lines on a metal parts. So use a sharp object on it will come off real easy.The shock springs will wear it off over time. Any rubbing will.

[Live Steam Mad]

As easy as you brushed it on it will come off real easy with denatured rubbing alchol or CA debonder. Layont fluid is used for laying out scribed lines on a metal parts. So use a sharp object on it will come off real easy.The shock springs will wear it off over time. Any rubbing will.

You made those points already above. I understood the first time around. Are you the person who messaged me with the personal attacks by the way?

Or have you got any more positive suggestions than just knocking what I am doing?

I never said the Dykem finish would be hard, I already told you here that I understand that anodising produces a hard finish but that I haven't the equipment or money to do it.

Can you tell me HERE how I can anodise the parts very cheaply with easily available materials and tools?

I was thinking last night of using a teacup worth of acid and a couple of electrodes made from sheet Aluminium and an old 12V 5A car battery charger, and suspensing the shock body from a hook. But the red anodizing power is 13 GBP from Ebay and I don't know if I can get it to work with my very limited budget and equipment, I don't want to waste 13 quid on powder that I can't use. If you have something positive to offer, go ahead.

Actually I wonder whether the red anodising powder on Ebay comes out slightly purple / pink like the originals seemed to be in the catalog and on the Optima box?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad]

Does anyone know where I can get red (or slightly purple / pink!) anodizing dye from for a few quid (GBP) ? I am willing to spend up to maybe 5 quid.

I'm willing to have a go at it at home if it's practical and possible.

If anyone can give me just a little anodising powder or some helping hints I'd appreciate it.

I am wanting to do the anodizing on VERY SMALL parts, I don't want to use 5 gallon tubs and things.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad]

This looks to be a useful one ? ;-

http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

Cheers,

ARG

[Live Steam Mad]

OK so the first thing I am going to need is some pretty pure Sulphuric (Sulfuric) acid. Where can I buy enough to make up several good strength tea cups full of (!) in the UK? I will be doing only one shock part at a time if this works at all.

Here is the important relevant part from the above web page about getting the acid ;-

"Now, sulphuric acid is battery acid - so potentially you could buy lots of batteries and tip it all out - but that acid may well be contaminated. This also sounds like an expensive approach. My local automotive shop (Halfords) said they are not allowed to sell the stuff. So I was a bit stuck. Then I discovered www.thechemicalshop.com which seemed to sell all manner of exciting chemicals mailorder. Then next day 500ml of 98% sulphuric acid arrived. Cool!

November 2007: Please note the above link no longer works. It is very difficult to find anybody selling the chemicals these days. It might be worth talking to these guys http://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/ for advise. Also, some places sell battery acid which should work - I think battery acid needs to be cut 50/50 with water to be the right strength for anodizing."

I'll try a search for H2SO4 acid and see if I can come up with some from a UK supplier.

I tried a search on the Halfords website but no battery acid was there. I just e-mailed them asking whether they sell battery acid for car batteries but I suspect they will tell me they can't sell it to me.

Cheers,

ARG

[Live Steam Mad]

Online prices (Ebay LOL) start at 5 to 6 quid for the acid (96 per cent pure, liquid) and 8 quid for delivery. Darn. Too much money for experimenting with.

However I have a friend who knows someone who has just got into the hobby of Jewelery making and uses this sort of thing so I might be able to purloin some that way. I'll report back if I get some H2SO4.

EDIT: I just found some on Ebay with the title "Battery Acid 400ml" which looks to be dilute Sulphuric Acid with Specific Gravity of 1.27 which is for motorcycle batteries and is the same stuff as listed here ;-

http://www.mara-onli...ml?currency=GBP

It is supplied as a liquid (of course, since it is diluted with distilled water) and is 3 quid plus 3 quid postage. Might be worth a try, if that's strong enough for anodising? At least I can afford that.

EDIT: Halfords got back to me and said "I am afraid that we do not sell battery acid" (David, Halfords customer services)

ARG