25 replies to this topic

[ideal2k]

So I want a new racecar.
But which one? There are so many.
Xray T3 '12
417
Hotbodies TCX
TC6
Top Photon

Someone on here recommended a Serpent S411, but I've not been tempted due to Serpent's bad record with regards to parts supply.

Who here can tell me anything definite about these cars?

I like:
-predictable handling
-prefer rear grip over front grip
-hate cars that spin out on every corner (also hate one-way fronts)
-prefer low maintainance

Is there someone who can tell me of a car that will fit my needs?

[sosidge]

They are all pretty similar, they are all competitive, they are all very adjustable so you should be able to get each one going in the way you like.

Really I would choose one based on overall parts quality and availability over anything else. Or just chooses the one that appeals to you. A bit of shared setup knowledge is helpful.

I would also choose a car that is gear-diff friendly and LiPo-balanced out of the box.

If you want a Photon, I would suggest waiting for the new version that has been shown in prototpe form already. There is a TC6.1 which has a few better parts on it than the original although I feel that AE quality has gone downhill since the Thunder Tiger takeover. XRAYs are very popular but I can't say I've ever been impressed with them personally. I'd have no reservations about buying a TCX or the new 417X which is due soon.

[Percymon]

I'd take a look at what others in the club/area are using. Parts availability should be a factor, but of a few fellow club racers run the same you can at least keep strategic spares amongst yourselves, and then parts are to hand at race nights.

Most internet suppliers will deliver within 2-3 days, but always worthwhile phoning them to ask what their typical real time spares position is - last thing you want is waiting for a distributor to send to a retailer, only for them to resend on - this takes days if not a week or so. For instance modelsport list over 500 spares from Hot Bodies but only about dozen are specific to the TCX, and whilst they sell the T3 model and have lots of Xray spraes listed (over 1800) very few again are specific to T3 This one time when ebay can actually be a better place to buy - sellers have the stock to hand so at least you are onyl at the mercy of one mail journey.

[ideal2k]

I don't really know what they're using.
I've not been mingling in the racing scene in Norway for years, and I've recently relocated to Spain (at least part of the time..), where I basicly don't know anyone lol.

I'm going to try to find something second hand, I think.

[SteelRat]

Get a TT01. They're awesome and I know how much you love them.

*smirk*.

[bromvw]

Its none tamiya but the HPI cup racer is a great chassis . well worth a look .

[94eg!]

For what it's worth, you may want to take a look at what some of the top guys are driving at your track (at least the more friendly ones). Not because they are winning, but because chances are they will be able to help you with setup changes. Just a thought.

[94eg!]

I like:
-predictable handling
-prefer rear grip over front grip
-hate cars that spin out on every corner (also hate one-way fronts)
-prefer low maintainance

- Any carbon chassis car will be predictable as long as you can maintain it properly. This requires quite a bit of setup equipment. Tweak board, height/droop gauge & camber gauge are a must.
- Grip at either end can be tuned with setup. Usually standard kit setups are more stable (lots of rear traction). You will need to study a lot about setup to understand exactly what changes do what. Hudy has a good setup guide you can dowload.
- Again, this is all about setup. Most people don't use front one ways now. It's all about front spool, but it really depends on the track.
- All race cars are high maintence if you really want to stay competitive. You will need to rebuild diffs (or get a gear diff) and constantly check, flush & oil or replace bearings. Always check for chassis & suspension tweak to keep the car flat & straight. Lots of work prepping, cleaning, scrubbing & storing tires. Brushless & Lipo take a lot of the pit work out of the game.

Personally I would look for a used 416WE or later. Obviously the later the better.

[ideal2k]

What is this "tweak" many people speak of?

[94eg!]

What is this "tweak" many people speak of?

Chassis Tweak:
It's when the chassis plate gets twisted (not perfectly flat). It can happen in a crash because the bulkheads shift. It can happen if you don't install your electronics properly and they push against the upper deck. It can happen if you run your belts too tight. It can also be permanent if the chassis plate somehow gets bent (I've seen this).

Almost 100% of the time, plastic tub chassis come like this from the factory. Its because the plastic gets distorted and stressed as it cools in the mold. It can be possible to straighten it with heat in an oven, but I've not tried that.

The problem is that it makes it almost impossible to setup the car perfectly left to right. Your down stops (droop limiters) and ride height and pretty much everything else depend on the chassis being perfectly flat. What you end up with is a car that handles different from left to right, and pulls to one side on and/or off power.

Weight Distribution:
Tweak is also reffered to when dealing with weight distribution. A car with unequal weight distribution left/right will have more pressure on one corner than all the others (opposite corner will have less than all the others). This causes the car to handle differently left to right as well. A tweak board is then used to adjust the preload collars to even out this weight distribution diagonally so the car will pull straight and turn equally well left to right.

If you look at the picture, the rear bridge is fixed and level. Then the support rod is set to your wheelbase and leveled. The front bridge with the bubble-level then slips onto the end of support rod and pivots on ball bearings. Once you get the car centered on this thing, the unequal weight distributions (or chassis tweak) will tilt the front bridge. You then adjust your preload/ride-height collars to level it out. If you do it correctly, you can get it level while only having a very very minimal impact on ride height. This helps correct for uneven weight distribution and/or a tweaked chassis.

BTW: You also check for chassis tweak by removing your wheels and laying the chassis flat on this tweak board. If there is any twist, the bubble won't center. If this is the case, it's time to loosen all your chassis screws and see if you cannot make it go away.

[ideal2k]

Ok, that's a quite reasonable explanation thanks.

I've got two potential cars "on hand" and we'll see how it goes tomorrow, with regards to price and such, I might have bought a car tomorrow evening
I'll keep you in the loop

[sosidge]

The list of setup equipment you might read about "needing" on the internet is somewhat longer than what you actually need to get the car running well, same with the amount of maintenance.

My cars are setup with no more than a flat board, ride height gauge, droop gauge and camber gauge. "Tweak" and left/right balance can be calculated simply by lifting the car from the board with the holes that most cars have in the middle of the shock tower. The expensive setup stations are a complete waste of money because they give misleading readings - always set-up the car with the tyres on. And always set-up the car to suit you, not someone else.

My cars need very little maintence also. Most of this comes from a good build and good prep - when parts are well aligned and free-running in the first place they are less likely to wear out. Not crashing helps. Just have a visual and manual check of the car between races to make sure that everything runs smoothly and freely and there is no damage or significant wear.

My TOP Scythe tourer is now 4 years old, and I've never broken a part on it. I've had one wheel bearing go bad, and a few drivetrain problems this season caused by running an alloy diff (I have since returned to plastic), and worn out one spool. My M-05 racer is now in its second indoor season, one plastic rear hub has been damaged. I've even been using alloy Tamiya pinions in it most of the time!

[94eg!]

I crash a lot!

[Eddystone]

What do people think of the 3Racing Sakura Zero S? It seems like a decent looking touring car for but TT-01 prices. Could that also be a budget contender?

Sakura Zero S

[ideal2k]

What do people think of the 3Racing Sakura Zero S? It seems like a decent looking touring car for but TT-01 prices. Could that also be a budget contender?

Sakura Zero S

Wow, that does look like a proper bargain

[qatmix]

Wow, that does look like a proper bargain

The sakura Zero S is a fantastic car for the price. Parts are easy to get hold off, and the car is fast. The geometry is very similar to a TRF416, so its very good.

I would recommend the Sakura zero-s to anyone who wants to do TC racing. Its a great car that can win an A final at club level, you can upgrade it to the alloy shocks / carbon plates if you want. (Shocks are good, carbon not so essential, as you loose some chassis flex making the car rely more on a precise set-up.

Get the Sakura... See if you enjoy TC racing and then you can always punt a load of cash on a high end kit if you feel necessary after a couple of years.

[ideal2k]

Just a quick question about batteries, do you really need heavy C, or is 30C enough? (Question of price really)

[qatmix]

Just a quick question about batteries, do you really need heavy C, or is 30C enough? (Question of price really)

30c is totally fine.

[ideal2k]

I wound up ordering a Serpent S411, I got a really good deal with the Norwegian distributor and it was as cheap as ordering from RC Mushroom/HK, and I don't have to worry about added VAT + got free shipping.
So I got a good deal on it!

I did seriously consider the Sakura Zero S, but what put me off it was mainly:
-needs +4mm shock towers, and Tamiya TRF shocks or other hopup shocks
-needs optional hopup spur holder and pulleys as the plastic kit spur holder wobbles - and the kit belts are too tight, so smaller pulleys help, and/or replacement belts as the kit ones are cheapo type
-difficult to get setup tips as nobody runs it here, meanwhile there will be a factory driver here from Serpent which I can get some tips from.

Cost would end up at approx $180~200 for the Zero S in hopped up condition ready to race.

I may still get a Zero S at a later date to keep as a "loaner" for friends and such, because they are so cheap!

[qatmix]

Cool enjoy it! The 411 is a nice car.

Regarding te Sakura all of the mods you listed are ways to make it more refined, but not needed to start out.

Post updates of your progress here. This site doesn't have enough racing talk

[WillyChang]

hah! Resistance is Futile...

[ideal2k]

Soooo I'm sat here in Spain building it now.
I'd say this kit is mainly for the "advanced modeler", as the manual isn't very detailed it's not really suited for kids or first time builders.
For example the manual has some omissions, for example with regards to the gear diff, there's two small shims which obviously should go on the outside of the smaller bevel gears in the diff, however they've forgot to write that up in the manual.
Similarly the manual contains no "additional information" which would be useful to most people, such as IDR / FDR charts and recommendations, etcetera, and there's no "changing this setup to this and that, will result in such and such", which again would be helpful.

I can't really progress any further in the building process as I don't have loctite or antiwear grease.
I haven't got any from before, as this is the first RC I've brought to Spain, and Serpent in their infinite wisdom decided they didn't want to spend $0.10 on a small portion sized flappy plastic pack of loctite, and certainly not $0.20 on a microscopic jar of antiwear joint grease. Which is slightly disappointing IMHO.

I can't for the life of me find a decent hobby shop in Malaga, they all seem to only have RTR stuff from Jamara, Revell, LRP, Walkera.. and don't really stock tools or grease.
I was however able to find Tamiya PS spraypaint at "Jugueteria Poly", but even though they sold a RTR Kyosho Inferno Neo, they had no grease/loctite or even tools!
So I've resorted to order an EMS express package from RCmart and one from HobbyKing.
Hopefully they'll arrive early the coming week but I'm worried that with Christmas and all, it might take a while. Or worse, it could be intercepted by the Spanish Customs office.. which would bring about all sorts of Fawlty Towers'esque moments

In my Carry-on luggage I managed to bring my Futaba 4PK, some brushless motors, pinions, Sanwa ERG-WRX servo and four sets of tyres, 10A powersupply and iCharger 106B+, and one LiPo hardcase 5500MAH 35C. Unfortunately I couldn't bring any tools or chemicals, I was scrutinized thoroughly just for bringing this stuff! But luckily the security guy at Gatwick was into RC and as soon as he saw I had RC kit we had a nice little chat about that and I was on my way, he said "pity you hadn't built it already as I've would have wanted to see it"

Anyhow, I'm stuck at this stage until I can get the loctite and grease.

I'll keep updating

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[EddScott]

Bit off topic but is there anywhere to race in Fuengirola?

Mother has a place there and my brother lives in Gibraltar.

[ideal2k]

First off: If you would like to come over for coffee or RC talk or anything, I'm down here for long periods at a time so you are very welcome to drop by!

Secondly:
Absolutely not off topic, I've done my research, there is a track in place in a parking space near the "Hipodromo" (the horse racing track)
It's in slot 13 left, in the parking area.
Here's a picture I took:


Anyhow, those guys who race at the "carpark track" which seems to be permanently in place, have some oddball rules.
For some reason they decided to go with their own rules, rather than anything EFRA compliant like everywhere else in Europe.
So the limit is 9T sensorless, for some reason it must be sensorless. If it is 2wd touring pancar, you can run any tires you like. If it is 4wd you can only run some regulation 40 shore foams.

Basicly I only intend to use this track here in Fuengirola (Mijas) for practising, since apparently there's no lap counting, and they've invented their own little oddball rules.
Probably they have these oddball rules so they can stay in their own little pond and be big fish there, but I really don't know why so it's only speculation on my part.

Then there are some other more professional tracks around in Andalucia.
There is a brand new track over in Almeria which looks stunning, then there is an equally stunning track in Alcala La Real, and then there is one in Cadiz in the "puerto de santa maria" area which also appears thoroughly professional, judging from the pictures.
There are good videos taken from championship races at the Cadiz and Alcala la real tracks on youtube, just go there and put it in the search. "Andalucia campeonata" and the place name I think finds it.

There are some other "carpark" type tracks around, there is one in Arroyo de la miel in Benalmadena, and then I believe there is one in Marbella.
But I don't know what kind of people race there, and I assume it's basicly only worthy of practise status as there'd be no lapcounting.

I've scoped out the race calendar at Cochesrc.com, I've tried to post there a few times but they are not capable of English, so they just ignore me. Fair enough, I should learn Spanish anyway.
Spanish Touring car championshio:
rd.1: 15th of April - Circuito de Villareal
rd.2: 27th of May - Circuito de Vigo
rd.3: 2nd of September - Circuito de Alcobendas

So I'm not sure about this, but I could only find three rounds in this championship. Says 1/10 and 1/12 pistas electricos, so it would be "track" and "electric". I'm assuming this means Touring car and 1/12th.


Then they have an off road championship, they call buggy "TT":
February 19th round 1 - Madrid
March 25th round 2 - Jerez (is it in Cadiz or am I mistaken? Anyway, I believe this is the Cadiz area)
May 20th round 3 - Circuito de capo
June 24th round 4 - Bilbao
September 16th round 5 - Barcelona

Anyway, I don't have anything worthy of running in an off road championship series, and I honestly don't think I could afford to invest in that.
I do have a nice 1/8th buggy, Mugen MBX-6, and a suitcase full of parts, so if I could discover a 1/8th series I'd go for that. But then I'd have all sorts of difficulties bringing it with me down here.

My plan now is to compete in the three rounds of the Spanish Touring car championship, and if I can get my 12th scale with me from Norway, I'll try and enter into that series as well
If I had a raceworthy buggy I'd enter into the electric buggy championship, but I honestly don't.
If someone reading this has a raceworthy buggy, and would like to trade it for a Top Force Evo project car, go ahead and shoot me a message

I will keep updating this as I progress.

My to-do list now includes figuring out how to enter into competitions here.
If it is anything like Norway, I have to be a member of a club and hold a racing license, possibly EFRA.
We'll see what I can find out, but the language barrier is tough to conquer, I speak Norwegian, German and English, and I figure I need to learn Spanish now as they only speak Spanish here.

[ideal2k]

Well, I tell you what, I spent this evening using google translate to read up on the local Andalucian championship series.
Again they've decided to go with some really annoying rules and specifications.
For some odd reason they seem not to give a rats "behind region" what EFRA think, and go with a completely different regulation.
They allow 3S lipo, and foams.

Now, if your intention is to race, and maybe later race in national or international events, would it not be a point to stick with the same regulations as used there?

I can't for the life of me understand why they want to run 3 cell lipos in a racing series. My Lord, how frustrating!