Jump to content

Mark all as read

Photo

King Blackfoot project


13 replies to this topic

#1 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:57 PM

I’d been enjoying bashing my old original Blackfoot & had got it going as well as I could with lots of the mods listed on here so was very happy with it, but while doing that I also read about the King’s “better” suspension, so I thought it would be fun to get one & see just how much better it actually was than my original. I managed to find one on the bay to have a fiddle with.
Here are the pics from eBay, how it looked to start with:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


It looks a bit beat up but actually it had hardly been used the plastic bearings in it looked brand new & apart from the obvious damage was in good shape.
First off I fixed the body with some fibreglass & fitted new a new grill from an extreme, then as it’s so dark all the time this time of year & the new grill had nice holes for it I fitted an ansmann light kit, they are very clever with all the functions of a 1:1 car from a two channel radio!

Posted Image
(Gaffer tape is bodge to hold the wires for now, not to fix the body!)

The old MSC only had one speed, so next I fitted an ESC I liberated from another car & tightened up all the screws that had never been done up fully (I guess a kid made it, I remember how hard they were to do up back when I was 10!).
I wasted no time in taking it out for a test drive, but it was rubbish! Mainly because the tyres weren’t glued & the wheels just spun inside the tyres, I didn’t want to glue the old tyres on so used some honey(!) to temporally stick them. It worked well but then I could see just how bad the fiction shocks & the awful bump steer / steering was. My original modded Blackfoot handed much better…

Posted Image

Posted Image

At least the lights looked good, better in the dark, but the pics are rubbish...



So the proper modds started. I wasted quite a bit of time trying to get the original servo saver to work with no luck so changed to a central direct servo (Like my original BF now has) by just cutting the front plate down & using the old front mount at the back. The servo saver was a bit week, but it was much better than it was & actually went where I wanted! I also found some old oil shocks I had & fitted them as others have using parts of the kings.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The old guard I had left from fitting the new frog part to my original came in handy underneath:
Posted Image


As you can see I also fitted an old 17T double I had, it didn’t make much difference to start with but it still had the plastic bearings in, so I swapped them all out for ball races & was very pleased with how much faster it was then. I thought it was rose tinited glasses thinking back to how much difference they make, but clearly not! Then I remember about the honey in holding the tyres so took them off cleaned the wheels up (the honey as intended was easy to remove!) & fitted some new tyres, was better again then. I bashed it a round quite abit like that it ran well apart from the bump steer.

After a while the bodged up servo saver popped its plastic spring so I got one of these:

Posted Image

I’d already fitted one to my original so I knew they were good with that triple metal spring:

Posted Image

Normal ones tend to not only have week springs but also slop side to side, these have much firmer locating collars that interleave the two halves to stop all unwanted movement:

Posted Image

I used the repair plate from the old servo saver as a reinforcing plate for the new one: But also to drop the in board mounting point of the track rods (steering arms) as much as possible:

Posted Image


This was the first bodged up servo saver with the ball joints higher:

Posted Image

It not much different, but it all helps...


The bump steer (in case you didn’t know) is caused by the track rods (steering arms) following a very different path to the “wish bones” (suspension arms), on full droop they all line up:

Posted Image

But on full compression they are in a very different alignment:

Posted Image

The suspension arms are effectively getting shorter as they come up moving closer in to the chassis, the steering arms are at the same time effectively getting longer as they move to the peak of their arc, so the wheel gains massive tow in.


The upside down servo trick looks like it would help with this, but I don’t think it would be right either, to be correct the inner points need to be in between the suspension mounting points & this just isn’t possible on the blackfoot chassis. Also I don’t like the idea if the steering arms being so exposed down that low so I tried to do my best with it this way up.

The orginal BF has it’s outer upright track rod ends / steering arm mounts much higher up than the Kings new set up, this pic isn’t really at the right angle:

Posted Image

But the ball joints actually line up with the top arm of the suspension, so with the centre servo steering mod the original has no bump steer at all.




I wanted to try and move the kings ball joints up to some how. I ordered some of the longer ball joints from an xtream & uprights from a lunch box, I hoped to be able to just screw them in, but the lunch box uprights were different.

Posted Image

So there wouldn’t have been any steering lock with them

Posted Image

Lunch box upright on the left in this pic:

Posted Image

So I fitted them to the Kings uprights instead:

Posted Image

It was a bit of a pain though as they old ones don’t unscrew so I had to press them out.

Posted Image

Once cleaned up that left quite a big hole inside though:

Posted Image


As the threads weren’t long enough to go right though:

Posted Image

I drilled & tapped them to bolt them on:

Posted Image

I was carful to make sure they still cleared the chassis on full droop:

Posted Image

It’s better now there isn’t any bump steer till ¾ of the way through the suspension travel but still not as good as the original!

Posted Image
(still some tow in on full compression)

I also added some cooling for the motor as I run it in my very steep garden & it was getting very hot. The fan was fixed flush with the heat sync but it turned out the tuned motor had such strong magnets in it they stopped the fans motor running, so I fixed it up further away from the motors magnetic field. It took me a few minutes to work that one out!

Posted Image

I've just picked up this lot for a bargain, so I may be changing over to xtream uprights to fit those nice new hex rims, so maybe I'll get better results with them...

Posted Image

Just as well I got that lot, I think I’ll need it, all this was the result of the first run out:

Posted Image

The steering was so good it instantly flipped and rolled down my big hill, fixed again now but with the servo saver being so tight you have to totally change your driving style – in that the slightest movement on the stick on the TX box & it’s darting all over the place, once I’d got used to it thought it was great. Still not sure it’s any better than my original though!


Lastly anyone know of a different bumper that would fit the King's chassis, that one is so close my nice new chrome bumper on the body gets smacked every time my son gets the controls!

#2 waterbok

waterbok

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dutch living in Frankfurt, Germany

Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:02 PM

have to do that steering mod too, looks great.

how about setting the front with a little \ / on full droop so when the suspension is a little compressed it goes | | and fully compressed you will have less / \.
think it is like this on the Willy 2 WR chassis

already changed the dampers for some oily ones from a DF01 (manta ray) and did the full bearing.
and of course a light kit.

fun car to bash with
58035swb 58035lwb 58039 58048 50087 58154 58161 58192 58204
58242 58344 58405 58445 58452 57602 57604 57606 57743 ax90014

#3 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

have to do that steering mod too, looks great.

how about setting the front with a little \ / on full droop so when the suspension is a little compressed it goes | | and fully compressed you will have less / \.
think it is like this on the Willy 2 WR chassis

already changed the dampers for some oily ones from a DF01 (manta ray) and did the full bearing.
and of course a light kit.

fun car to bash with


You are right, it is a good car to bash with, the four body mounts seem to hold the solid body much better than the three for the original BF so it takes the rolls better, I've only broken it once! I've been doing a few more jumps with it lately & it lands very well now.

By \ / do you mean tow out or positive camber? (tow out would be looking at the wheels from the top, positive camber would be looking at them from the front) I did set it with a little tow out so it performs as you say.

Unfortunately a bad side effect of this mod is becoming apparent - the raised ball joint creates a large twisting effect on the upright arm & as the uprights are quite flexible this results in a little play. I didn't think this would matter but I've found when it's on a hard lock, say turning left, the steering arm is obviously pushing out hard on the right hand upright while the wheel is pushing back on the upright trying to resume its natural path of least resistance (going straight a head), raising the ball joints moves them closer to the wheel rim anyway, so when turning they get pushed right into the rim. Now it's becoming apparent that if I hit a bump whilst cornering the extra force pushes the wheel rim back against plasic adjuster even harder, so as the rear part of the spinning rim is effectively moving up all the time, the adjuster being forced into it gets pulled up & off the ball joint - Grrr!

The upgraded servo saver, with the servo mounted where I did is very good though, that one is well worth it.






Posted Image

Oh well I'll just have to get some blackfoot xtream uprights to use my chrome hex wheels (pictured with my ebay haul above) on the front. The xtream uprights were made to go with the longer ball joints & are hard plastic so wont flex. Although seeing the aluminium hop up relpacments for them makes me think the hard plastic may break!

Those tyres that came with the chrome rims are much more fun to drive with, I've fitted them to the rear now. The Kings spiky tyres have almost too much grip, it wouldn't power slide with them on, but the block tread on the new ones have enough grip to get up a wet grassy hill, but will still break traction enough to be a laugh, and that is what it's all about!

#4 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:32 AM

Started work on the xtream body I got:

Posted Image
Was in very good shape, but as it was going to live on my King the graphics were wrong so it seemed like a good excuse to strip it down


Posted Image
Luckily it hadn't been painted so this was easy


Posted Image
The body mount holes turned out to be in the wrong place (sure I read the body’s were interchangeable - but they aren't) so filling the holes took quite some time. What looked like dog teeth marks(!) removed from rear wheel arch too.


Posted Image
I used automotive plastic bumper repair kit for filling the holes, I laid it up so I've got some where I can try sticking strips of Velcro to hold the body down. Would be nice not to have any posts sticking up through the body. If it doesn't work can still drill new holes for the Kings mounting points.

Hopefully I'll get it sprayed tomorrow...

#5 Jeffescortlxturbo

Jeffescortlxturbo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

I'm in the middle of restoring my King Blackfoot. I drove it hard, and it has many of the same scrapes and breaks as yours.
But I'm using super glue and JB weld to fix breaks and cracks. I'm a little worried the glue wont flex and twist with the body as it's used, so it could break again in the same spots.
Automotive plastic bumper repair kit sounds like a better fix.

I think once I'm done with the restore, I'm going to add some kind of front grill guard and wheely bar so the rear bumper does'nt get so abused. There is not much protection from the factory bumpers on these trucks.

#6 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:21 AM

I'm in the middle of restoring my King Blackfoot. I drove it hard, and it has many of the same scrapes and breaks as yours.
But I'm using super glue and JB weld to fix breaks and cracks. I'm a little worried the glue wont flex and twist with the body as it's used, so it could break again in the same spots.
Automotive plastic bumper repair kit sounds like a better fix.

I think once I'm done with the restore, I'm going to add some kind of front grill guard and wheely bar so the rear bumper does'nt get so abused. There is not much protection from the factory bumpers on these trucks.


I'd think JB weld will most likly break again after a roll or two, for the broken bits of the body I find fiberglass is best, my orginal Backfoots body is alost all fiberglass now!

Posted Image

If you used it you need to rub the area down with some rough aluminum oxide paper like 80 grit so it can get a good key on the surface to stick to. Small fiberglass kits with all the bits you need are very cheep from any car parts shop

I think once I'm done with the restore, I'm going to add some kind of front grill guard and wheely bar so the rear bumper does'nt get so abused. There is not much protection from the factory bumpers on these trucks.

That's a good idea, I've now broken off my new bumper from the body, the rear got knocked off a while back! A wheely bar would be good, but my ends up doing so many cart wheels I'm worried it will do more harm than good...

#7 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

Been having some fun with it in the snow, ran very well

Respray is taking longer than intended, I was hoping to just paint directly over the plastic primer, but the filled holes still stood out too much so they needed a good coating of filler primer:
Posted Image

If you look closely you can see the out line of the holes still there, that sanded out ok after this thick local coat dried, so I then sprayed the whole thing:

Posted Image

I was going to go for metallic dark purple / black, but it looks quite nice in this light primer so I'm not sure now! Still it looks good with no body mounting holes, hope it can stay like that. At least I can run with the original body while I make my mind up!



I am trying to run xtream uprights on it so I can use my chrome hex wheels on the front, I thought I was going to be lucky they fitted right on by just turning the upper suspension arm round, but because of the different off set of the hex wheel & the upright being a different design it ends up with the wheel far to close in:
Posted Image


I won't go on with explanations, these pics show what the problem is, I'll just have to get round to making some new longer suspension arms some time.

Posted Image

Posted Image

On the up side my adjusters have stopped popping them selves off my modded king uprights so it's running really well now (as you can see from the vids I linked to at the top of this post)

#8 Jeffescortlxturbo

Jeffescortlxturbo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:21 AM

Body is looking good.

I think mine started in worse shape then yours. My front hood corners were broken, and where the screw holes go for the front grill.

#9 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:44 AM

Body is looking good.

I think mine started in worse shape then yours. My front hood corners were broken, and where the screw holes go for the front grill.


Thanks, the good looking body in primer that had the holes filled is the new Blackfoot Xtream body I got off ebay, that was in very good shape. I'm still running with the original King body, the one pictured broken right up at the top of the thread, it was badly broken like yours by the sound of it. In that pic right up the top of the thread it's just about in one bit, but the corners & mounting screws came off in my hand as I tried to straighten it up a little. So I sanded the under side of all the bits to give the fibreglass a good key, taped it all together on the outside, then laid up the fibreglass mat with resin in side, then fitted the metal bracket for the grill & fibreglasses that in too for good measure. The lower front corner of one of the wheel arches was missing so that is made from fibreglass now:

Posted Image

As you may notice the new body bumper has been knocked off, I've now taken to glue gunning this back on, so it can knock off again easily again (with out breaking anything else) & then glue gun back just as easily.

Its taken quite a few full speed front impacts & stayed together fine (less the bumper!), so I'm staring to tidy the out side up a little with car body filler in the cracks. I wanted to leave it like this for a while to check the filler didn't crack before paining this shell too, is been fine so far:

Posted Image



The repair I made to the crack in the side is also holding up very well. Also the the rear body mounts are doing well - for those I sanded the inner ridges down till they were almost flush with lower part so the body was thinner round the holes because the mounting pins don’t have much extra room for the thickness of the fibreglass.:

Posted Image
Looking at the body mount holes, you can see the lighter coloured area where the resin in the fibreglass has cracked where the body was cracked, but the glass part of the fibreglass – the matting is it is still holding it all together nicely.


It gets regular abuse like this link to vid & the body is doing fine.


The roll bar needed some reinforcement in the form a screw with the head cut off epoxied in, looks like they all go in the middle there, I found my spare was cracked too when I went to fit it:

Posted Image

It was running really well, so I made some in car videos from it in this thread

Unfortunately I've now destroyed the front suspension by clipping a lap post, it's taken many other high speed impacts fine, I think last one must have been just on the wheel, missing the chassis bumper & body so it ripped the suspension off. Oh well, I'll just have to find time to make some new wish bones to mount the xtream hubs with now....

#10 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

Got a new baby so not had much time to find an 'easy' way (without making new suspension arms) to mount hex wheels on the front lately, but found the original upright carrier actually fits the Kings suspension perfectly, it allows the upright to be mounted much lower in relation to the suspension arm pick ups, so the arms can move as they were meant to, moving the wheel back out where it should be giving the wider track.

Posted Image



The xtream upright needs cutting down a little to fit in & I found something knocking about to fit inside to reinforce it as there’s not much left after cutting it down, then it’s just fitted with the original Blackfoot long screws though the upright. I’ve been testing the cut down uprights on my original Blackfoot to see how they held up, quite a few packs through them now & lots of big jumps & crashes & still working very well.

Posted Image



Just have to get round to fitting it all back to the King chassis now…


I have also found all my wheels have different of sets, even the non hex fronts from the original black foot are different to the Kings which complicates things some what!

#11 isthisnametaken

isthisnametaken

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:46 AM

I'm interested in mounting hex front on my King Blackfoot too. Any pictures of the new track width using the original carriers? How do the shocks mount up?

Nice work overall!

#12 billg4

billg4

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1146 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:00 PM

if you ever want an easier job fit the super front end on a BF
It was the best front they had, and eliminating the bump steer wasn't as bad.

Yours may end up being the best in the end, lots of work and testing you've put into it

#13 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

THIS HAS BEEN UPDATED - the orginal carriers do work!

Thanks for those comments sorry for late reply, I’d almost forgotten I’d started this thread! I’d put it on the back burner as I snapped a drive shaft & was having a lot of trouble tracking one down, so mean time I got distracted resurrecting my old Hornet, then got an almost new Blackfoot Xtream of the bay for a very good price. I was going to nick the suspension bits off it to see if they would work any better with this, but it turned out to be a really good truck it’s self so I’ve been busy bashing & modding that up… (& the wishbones from the Xtream won’t fit easily on to the King with out lots of cutting up)

I'm interested in mounting hex front on my King Blackfoot too. Any pictures of the new track width using the original carriers? How do the shocks mount up?

Ignore what I did say here I've made a much better reply below, the shocks do line up ok if they are mounted on the front.

if you ever want an easier job fit the super front end on a BF
It was the best front they had, and eliminating the bump steer wasn't as bad.

I only recently realized the Super Blackfoot had a different front suspension set up to the original, at a glance they look the same. I scored some Super Blackfoot front suspension bits from the ebay with a load of parts including drive shafts so I think I’ve got all the bits to fiddle now, just need some time – that’s by far the hardest bit!

#14 Andyrt200

Andyrt200

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts

Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:45 PM

I found a little time to fiddle with this again & try out some of the growing parts pile out.
Seems my memory isn't working so well, but in a good way. Fitting the original uprights does work with not too much bump steer (with the centre mounted servo):

Posted Image

Posted Image
So if you just want hex drives on the front with very little bump steer they will be ok, the problem I was thinking about was my next step. The other draw back with the kings suspension is it gains massive positive camber (the reverse of what should happen!) as it goes into bump:

Posted Image


This had nothing to do with fitting the modded parts it's an effect of the position of the inner mounts on the king chassis. As you can see the standard parts are just the same on the other side. If you are just running off road with original tyres it wouldn't be too bad, but I want to use these, so when cornering the truck leans anyway then the suspension compresses both these effects combined mean non of the tread is in contact with the ground:

Posted Image


Posted Image


A possible solution as far a camber goes, with is with Super BF suspension:

Posted Image

Posted Image


The geometry is the same as the original BF, which combined with the caster keeps the wheel uptight as it rises:

Posted Image

Unlike the King:

Posted Image


The Super BFs longer arms would likely place the wheels in the right place, but with out fitting them to a chassis I don't know how bad the bump steer would be.

So working with what I had I tried moving the outer mounts up to stop the positive camber on bump:

Posted Image

Posted Image
This worked well for camber, but was a disaster for bump steer!




I tried the upside down servo trick which gave perfect results with the moved suspension mounting point, but the steering arm is just far too exposed for my liking:

Posted Image


So I tried fitting the all the suspension from the BF xtreme, the mounting tab is too long for the xtreams lower wish bone / suspension arm, so I split the arm to test fit it, the geometry is spot on, with no bump steer & positive camber, so either making the xtream parts fit or making up new arms (as detailed in another old thread) is the best bet:

Posted Image
It puts the hex drive in the same place as with the other mod parts:

Posted Image


Just for ref this is rear, all measured from the centre of the chassis:

Posted Image


Just to round up, the suspenion when fitted to it's home on the Xtream, keeping the wheel upright:


Posted Image



However that’s all theory, if the xtream leant over that far the wheel would catch on the body, it doesn’t, so I think I’ll just try putting the King back together with the original BF parts & just see how it goes for now…



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users