29 replies to this topic

[Daves956]

I'm debating another off road car, of these three which is the better pick?

[bromvw]

I'm debating another off road car, of these three which is the better pick?

purely in terms of looks i'd say the brat . Its the only one that looks anything like a real car

[gozone]

Frog at all times!!! It´s by far the meanest looking of those 3 models, and actually, it does not run all that bad either.
One of mine runs on the softer spring set from CRP i believe, with rebound limiters on the rear arms, and stock tires, and the other one has CRP front shocks, and other CRP hop-ups i could source, Pro-Line tyres at the rear, and what i recall as some stud / grooved tyres upfront, using a stepless-adjustment-motormount from Ebay (good item indeed), and powered by a Tamiya Superstock RZ motor, it´s pretty darn fast!..
Also had a Brat, but the tyres were rubbish where i run mine, and just fitting new tyres looked rather silly, so i transformed it into the #2 Frog i have now.

Cheers.
Michael

[OldSchoolRunner]

Frog at all times!!! It´s by far the meanest looking of those 3 models, and actually, it does not run all that bad either.
One of mine runs on the softer spring set from CRP i believe, with rebound limiters on the rear arms, and stock tires, and the other one has CRP front shocks, and other CRP hop-ups i could source, Pro-Line tyres at the rear, and what i recall as some stud / grooved tyres upfront, using a stepless-adjustment-motormount from Ebay (good item indeed), and powered by a Tamiya Superstock RZ motor, it´s pretty darn fast!..
Also had a Brat, but the tyres were rubbish where i run mine, and just fitting new tyres looked rather silly, so i transformed it into the #2 Frog i have now.

Cheers.
Michael

I agree here! Lots of cool upgrades and neat items being designed for them still!
OSR

[Daves956]

I looked at parts on Ebay and all 3 were in good supply and the original release car only was running as low as 10 and up to around 50 for all 3. I don't know much about the off road cars but it sounds like the frog would be a good runner if the price is right.

[teddyt]

I agree here! Lots of cool upgrades and neat items being designed for them still!
OSR

I agree

[MadInventor]

If you're looking at original cars the frog and brat will probably have shot drive shafts. They use the old hex drives which operate at extreme angles and wear out quickly. The frog diff is prone to shredding (I think the diff gears are made from a custom mix of butter, sand, and stilton cheese). The original brat doesn't have a diff, but this just means the hex drives wear out that much quicker when used on a high grip surface. It's not easy to fit oil shocks to the front of any of the vehicles, and out of the box, the hornet has equivilent handling characteristics to a drunkard on a unicycle, thanks to it's live rear axle setup with the whole gearbox and motor being unsprung weight. Having said that, the hornet has a tough transmission system that will take a lot of beans, and is a lot lighter than the other 2.

If I was you, I'd ignore all three and buy a re-re hotshot, boomerang, or thundershot based car. The hotshot based cars are a nice build, they still use frog diffs, but don't suffer so badly with shredding diff syndrome, and the thundershot trans is tough as old boots and it's a car that handles well given it's age.

[commiedoor]

bahhh .... takes about an hour and a bit of alloy angel and some longers screws to mount front shocks on a frog , as forthe gear box , if you dont go and run a great big motor and replace the hex shafts with new ones or do a re re conversion to a cup and bones set up , you will have plenty of fun ..this front shock mount was made nearly 25 years ago , done with a hack saw and a file .



the re re set up that tamiya sell .. an easy fit both conversions can be done on the frog and the brat .. and you can fit a frog diff in the original brat gearbox , thats if it hasn't been changed already i

[Daves956]

This is for off road. My daughter has a vintage hornet that she thrashes about. The only time it's had a problem is when I clipped it with the F103 and snapped a very old upright. I'm thinking of adding another so the speed and offroads don't cross paths again. The 959s here don't have the ground clearance for where these get driven and if I can pick one up for 20 or 30 bucks I can justify putting parts in it to be thrashed. The starting cost on a re re is around 200 and the end cost on one of these is less than that. Not pretty is kind of a requirement too, something that looks just as good after being rolled is perfect. If it handles like a drunk on a unicycle I can blame it on the car.

[HunterZero]

Chalk up another vote for the Frog!

The Brat bodyshell may be nice and scale looking, but it always looked ridiculous and wrong to me on the ORV chassis, IMHO. It bugged me that the real Brat is 4WD, but the Tamiya Brat is RWD.

- James

[eriknyg]

Another brat votes for the Brat!

[Daves956]

So far it looks like the frog and brat are the most popular for various reasons. Since they are on the same chassis it looks like a how it looks kinda thing. I'm trying to remember what I saw of the brat the last time I looked and I'm not positive it's not a re re. How can you tell? As far as wear and tear it and the frog were on opposite ends of things. Would I be better off to look at one as a parts car for the other. I do tend to agree that a 2 wheel drive brat is just not right. But I'm not on the prototypically correct bus. However I'm kinda leary of a parts car if there's any hope of it running.

[Daves956]

I did some more digging and the brat wasn't the only early brat. What if it's a mudblaster 58077 instead?

[GregM]

Frog and Brat do have basically the same chassis with different bodies, body mounts and wheels. The vintage Brat doesn't feature a differential and has just a 380 type motor.
Junfac manufactures and sells suspension upgrades for the Frog, which will help you to add oil shocks on the front and reinforces the rear suspension. I don't know if these upgrades will fit to the Brat body too. For running, the re-releases are preferred with their dogbone type drive shafts. Both re-releases do come with 540 type motors and differentials.

For performance, I wouldn't go for the Hornet. The rear oil shocks on the Hornet are practically useless due to the solid live axle suspension, and the front friction shocks are way too stiff for absorbing jumps. They are not easy to replace with oil shocks unless you fit slightly modified wider A-arms from a Super Hornet/GrashopperII/Rising Fighter.

[MadInventor]

I did some more digging and the brat wasn't the only early brat. What if it's a mudblaster 58077 instead?

The diff and hex drives will destroy themselves in half the time

Have a look at the super blackfoot or bush devil if you really want an ORV chassis. They have a good strong rear gearbox.

[taliesin]

The diff and hex drives will destroy themselves in half the time

Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?

[zulu69]

Frog is my cup of tea..! If you are into off road the lexan body will survive even after hard times ..dont know about the rear wing ...but with both steel antennas attached the Frog will end up most of the time on foot after a roll over..and the looks of a Frog for me is timeless....
The Brat has exactly the same chassis and can have exactly the same upgrades..you also have two bodies included in the kit (hard like vintage one and a lexan) so ,you can have the hard body for display and the lexan for bashing around..The nice painted hard body will be destroyed in the first run..thats the problem with ard bodies anyway..and they are heavier...
Also I think its a bit strange to have a 4wd body in a 2wd chassis...:-(
What ever you choose enjoy it.!

[MadInventor]

Speed costs money - how fast do you want to go?

Faster than this ...

http://www.youtube.c...7HxANvCcyoJ_o1R

[Daves956]

I do enjoy the tone shifts as a speed car loads and unloads the suspension. You can tell how good the surface is that your on by the sound they make. These three are all for sale used, I'm going to have a look at some pieces for current projects there and was thinking of returning with a car. I'm trying to narrow the field in a hope of not returning with three more projects. The white 956 was a parts car and so were one of the Roadwizards and 959s, now they're the best of the bunch. I don't do well with a whole car as parts, that's why I was thinking one car only.

[Daves956]

I've read all the reviews and looked at all the parts for these models and it's pretty clear that the brat body is what was disliked. Mudblaster was a bust and the superbeetle was a hit on basicly the same chassis. The same goes for brat vs frog. Come to think of it, the same goes for the real brat. People either loved or hated them, they weren't a big hit for Subaru.

[Daves956]

I think the body is the deciding factor between them. Ya the brat body looks good but it's ABS or styrene and 30 years old. If it gets breathed on it will shatter. I have one hornet now and a second sounds good but the frog sounds better. I have to admit the hornet upgrade thread helped the decision too. If it's not too far gone I'll post a picture later.

[Daves956]

I do listen to you all and I appreciate all the advice and views. The frog was gone and I couldn't pull the trigger on the brat or hornet. It was far from a wasted trip. Aside from checking out some really nice things, a vintage gas powered tandy, mini el camino and so much more there were some things too cool to pass on. This one checks out fine, just needs put back together. 30 bucks and there's another body for it too.

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[MadInventor]

I do listen to you all and I appreciate all the advice and views. The frog was gone and I couldn't pull the trigger on the brat or hornet. It was far from a wasted trip. Aside from checking out some really nice things, a vintage gas powered tandy, mini el camino and so much more there were some things too cool to pass on. This one checks out fine, just needs put back together. 30 bucks and there's another body for it too.

Bargain, and spares will plentiful for a while when the super hotshot is released shortly.

[jnail]

bahhh .... takes about an hour and a bit of alloy angel and some longers screws to mount front shocks on a frog , as forthe gear box , if you dont go and run a great big motor and replace the hex shafts with new ones or do a re re conversion to a cup and bones set up , you will have plenty of fun ..this front shock mount was made nearly 25 years ago , done with a hack saw and a file .



the re re set up that tamiya sell .. an easy fit both conversions can be done on the frog and the brat .. and you can fit a frog diff in the original brat gearbox , thats if it hasn't been changed already i

Can you tell me what rims and tires you have on your brat in the pics?

thanks, jeff

[commiedoor]

they are old traxxas '' eagle '' rims with proline mini pin rears and ribbed fronts , off a staduim race truck i had in the 90's , the fronts use a long axle and the rears use the round 5 pin drive like the frog etc . you can buy '' blue eagle '' rims as well but they are a sloped dish tyre and use the short axle .
i still have these rims as they where on my frog , not a brat .. that i raced as a srt back then .. i put a baja bug body on the frog but removed the big wheels and put sand scorcher wheels with alloy outters on it ..the frog is also full of '' 50 caliber custom '' alloy parts ..