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Kyosho Sand Master


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#1 Raman36

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:54 PM

Has anyone seen this

http://www.kyoshoame...3B_p_10811.html

Looks to be a retro style buggy. First the UltimaDB and now the Sand Master. Looks like they're noticing Tamiya's success with the Re-res but still aren't sure if they should dive in. Come in Kyosho, your cars aren't fetching top dollar like Tamiya's SRB was back in the day.

Re-re the Turbo Scorpion, Ultima etc.

#2 Champ85

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:24 PM

That looks really cool.

#3 bromvw

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:41 PM

OMG i like that . its very retro . price is reasonable too .

#4 markbt73

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:52 AM

Now that's more like it... and available as at least a partial kit. It looks good from the front, but a little "off" in the rear. Like it's missing a crossmember on that roll cage. But it is nice to see something that looks more like a real off-roader.

I agree, though: I'd LOVE to see a true re-release from them, especially an Optima.

#5 Rigga

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:45 AM

Very very nice!

#6 RichieRich

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:22 AM

Hey, I really like the way that looks. Looks like a barrel of fun.

#7 berman

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:10 AM

Reminds me of Motorstorm's Jester BXR...

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#8 Sayer

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:33 PM

Has anyone seen this

http://www.kyoshoame...3B_p_10811.html

Looks to be a retro style buggy. First the UltimaDB and now the Sand Master. Looks like they're noticing Tamiya's success with the Re-res but still aren't sure if they should dive in. Come in Kyosho, your cars aren't fetching top dollar like Tamiya's SRB was back in the day.

Re-re the Turbo Scorpion, Ultima etc.


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#9 berman

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:46 PM

Javelin



Oh badword yes, Javelin = bermans favourite kyosho buggy, probably favourite RC buggy ever ;)
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#10 GregM

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:59 PM



I think I should get one, shouldn't I? :D
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

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#11 GregM

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:54 AM

Does anybody know if the kit and/or the ready-to-run comes with ball-bearings or just plastic bushings?
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

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#12 Percymon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:20 AM

Does anybody know if the kit and/or the ready-to-run comes with ball-bearings or just plastic bushings?


well if this link is anything to go by it sounds like the kit has several prefabricated items - the image suggests the axles are already in the turnbuckles. Given the 'readyset' version comes with ball bearings I'd guess the kit will too...http://www.rcdriver.com/rcd/index.php/kyosho-sandmaster-kit/

History last 3.9yrs.. spent a fortune, had a great time - current stable 61 !   Visit My Showroom


#13 GregM

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

Many thanks. I've recently asked Kyosho the same, and they told me that both Sandmaster kit and RTR are equipped with a full set of ball bearings. However, as expected the kit has no steering servo included, while the RTR has.

Now I just have to know the damper lengths to see if I could get some oil dampers in colours matching the bodyset. The manual (which is available for download at Kyosho's website) of the kit doesn't provide that information.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

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#14 Percymon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

I found a thread elsewhere where the fronts had been replaced by Ansmann Racing 75mm units, but the rear were still yet to be changed, presumably needing longer shocks

http://www.msuk-foru...ggy-110-review/

The images of the kit laid out would suggest theres not much difference in length between front and rear shocks, maybe the rears are slightly longer (85mm ?)

History last 3.9yrs.. spent a fortune, had a great time - current stable 61 !   Visit My Showroom


#15 GregM

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:54 PM

Thanks. Yes, I think so.

I just couldn't resist and ordered the Sandmaster. As soon as I get it, I'll post the shock lengths. :lol:
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

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#16 Percymon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

Be interested to hear your views, it's easy to be critical about it's quality but you have to remember it's the same money as tamiyas holiday buggy.

History last 3.9yrs.. spent a fortune, had a great time - current stable 61 !   Visit My Showroom


#17 GregM

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:31 AM

Haven't received the Sandmaster yet, but some more info about shocks and pinion gear.

From looking at the spare parts lists and manual, it seems the front and rear friction shocks are all the same.
Somebody from another R/C forum claims the supplied pinion gear may be a plastic one. I'm not sure about that! However, Kyosho sells two pinion gears for the Sandmaster: #W-6065-29 (29T, 48dp) & # W-6065-31 (31T, 48dp). Are these made of steel? At least they look like that.

I'll keep you guys updated!
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png

#18 Percymon

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:39 AM

The first Sand Master has appeared in the showroom gallery - whatever the pinion I'd just drop a known steel pinion on for the sake of a few pounds.

History last 3.9yrs.. spent a fortune, had a great time - current stable 61 !   Visit My Showroom


#19 bromvw

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:24 AM

The first Sand Master has appeared in the showroom gallery - whatever the pinion I'd just drop a known steel pinion on for the sake of a few pounds.


Heck , steel pinion , decent dampers and a sport tuned and you'd still have change out of 150 . I call that a good deal .

#20 GregM

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:38 PM

I got my hands on the Sandmaster today. I chose the RTR, as it includes a steering servo and radio gear for just 117 €. Going the kit way (89 €) would have been more expensive.

The Kyosho branded 2.4G transmitter has analogue trims, channel reverse, EPA and steering dual rate. 4xAA batteries (available seperately) went into the battery compartment. The transmitter, while still being a basic one, feels much better than the cheap entry-level Flysky FS-GT2 2.4G transmitters. It is technically identical to the Carson Modelsport branded Carson Reflex Wheel Pro (without LCD).

When I pulled the Sandmaster out of its box, the first thing I noticed were the thick hard plastic body panels. I expected them to be made out of thin wobbly lexan. All 4 friction shocks measure 85mm. While the fronts have very soft springs (which seems to be all right), the rears are hard as rock. With this setup, the ground clearance at front is good, but terrible low at the rear,. I am not sure what to do here, other than replacing the friction shocks with cheap red alloy oil shocks of the same length and experimenting with spring rates.

The lower rear arms seem to prevent to get more ground clearance by using longer shocks. Speaking of lower suspension arms, all of them are fixed using secured pins. No fiddly suspension e-clips, no annoying screw pins, I like that. The rear arm pins could use some washers to eliminate slop.

I tried to get the motor cover off, to access the pinion gear. It is fixed with 3 plastic clamps - what the..??? :blink: Kyosho, why not just screws? Eventually I wasn't able to get the cover off, so I couldn't check what kind of pinion is used on the RTR. I'll give it another try tomorrow. The cover has even some small holes where dust may enter the gearbox.

The battery pack compartment of the Sand Master is said to be designed for NiMH racing packs. I was able to fit a thick and heavy 7.2V 4500mAh NiMH, I think 2s LiPo will fit too. However, I don't know if the ESC features a cutoff for LiPo batteries. The battery door is pretty fiddly to open and close, but as there's a proper release switch, I am not expecting to see batteries playing "prison break" and falling out of the compartment (like they did on the Grasshopper/Hornet).

Without going into too much detail about the looks of the car: I still think it looks great. I haven't run the Sand Master yet, but I will. I hope there'll be a better motor cover, as I expect those clamps to break in the long run.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png

#21 GregM

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

Today, I took the Sandmaster out for a spin. I added more preload on front dampers (to make them stiffer) and on the rear (to keep the rear from sitting down). The Sandmaster is no master of sand at all, and on even short grass, the low sitting rear skid plate will stop the vehicle inevitably. However, on tarmac and plain hard sand, it does fine while giving a nice scale look running with the stock silvercan motor. This car doesn't need a fast motor to get attention. The wheels are spinning with a lot of slop in sharp 180 turns or when going in reverse.

To make this car handle better off-road, I have to get the rear end higher above ground. So it's time to take out the dremel! I think I can file a bit of the chassis plate away where the rear arms would touch the plate. I hope this will give the arm more down travel to install longer shocks (95mm to 100mm would be appreciated).

While doing this, I will take the opportunity to shim the suspension.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png

#22 GregM

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:02 PM

I've disassembled the Sand Master yesterday. The disassembly was not that easy, as you have to take the whole rolecage, bodypanels and driver figure away, before you can reach all the good stuff in the chassis.

The pinion is plastic (shocking) 48dp 27t, simply pressed on the stock unlabeled "22 turn" sealed silvercan motor. This will surely have to make way for a proper steel pinion!
Removing the motor is only possible when you disattach the plastic spur gear (48dp 91t) which is held in place by two E-clips on a metal shaft. You can either do this by removing the E-clips or disassambling the gearbox, where one of the metal gears shares the same shaft as the spur. With the dremel and a hobby knife, I was able to get rid of some material at the rear chassis plate. So the rear arms got a bigger swing radius, which makes it possible to install rear shocks up to 100mm length and get a better ground clearance. The rear suspension pins have been shimmed with 3x 0.3mm and 1x 0.2mm shims (per pin). I've started to paint the driver's body with XF2 flat white. The body is black polycarbonate or PVC, however I hope the paint won't flake as the driver's body sits pretty safe from impacts in it's rollcage.I'll post pictures soon.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png

#23 GregM

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:35 PM

Taking the big spur gear E-clips apart was way more easy than I feared at first - what a relief.

At the rear, there are now REELY red alloy shocks installed (Conrad #237077). They are described as being 100 mm long, however their true eye-to-eye length is 92 mm. This seems to be the right length to get a good ride height, and the drive shafts won't pop out or bind with the drive cups. The supplied springs are totally wrong, as they are even harder than those of the Sand Master. You can't use the springs of the Sand Master big bore friction shocks with them. So I digged out some softer rear springs of the DT-02 blue friction shocks and added as much preload on the REELY shocks as possible. Seems to be OK now at the rear, but will have to test with full RTR weight.

For the front, I want to use another set of #237077, but this time with spacers to shorten the max. length to 86 mm.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png

#24 speedy_w_beans

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:14 AM

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and discoveries on this buggy. It's interesting to read about it.

-Paul

#25 GregM

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:07 AM

Thank you! :)

This is what I did to the rear chassis plate:
Posted Image

I found out the rear shocks have to be a tad shorter than 92, as the wheel drive cups would else grind slightly on the driveshafts. 90 mm should be fine and will still give good ground clearance. I need some 1 mm and 2 mm spacers. I'll get the front shock set tomorrow.
Runner: Mad Bull, BMW Z4 Hatsune Miku, Kyosho Sandmaster EZ, Baja Champ, Sand Viper
Build projects: Too many | Retired: The Hornet

tamiya2ulspb.png



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