The Protoshot
We'll probably never know for sure, but this looks suspiciously like one of the Hotshot prototypes. I'll admit, I'm a believer, and super proud of the old girl. The biggest clues are the two running pictures in the RC Guide Book of a Hotshot with the yellow FRP stabiliser arms and black springs this car has (... and indeed, if you look closer, you can see many of the other changes below as well).
There are lots of differences to the production car (at least to a mk2, perhaps some of these apply to mk1s as well?):
- red parts are really black painted white then red;
- rear axles are half hex, half dogbone (hex into the gearbox);
- has pins + e-clips instead of screws on wishbone;
- front suspension mount is longer/higher (potentially to give more clearance off e-clip/rod wishbone attachment);
- suspension molding is different (particularly the adjustors);
- different colour/material stabiliser arms/battery holder;
- bumper and ball connectors are dyed plastic;
- bumper is much thinner, bendy plastic;
- missing scratch protecting fins for screws under body;
- missing second screw holes on battery holder;
- missing body struts/ribs above battery holder;
- missing ribbing on rear cage behind resistors;
- square resistors (probably supershot parts 'upgraded' by a subsequent owner);
- different metal plates on rear suspension linkage;
- notch out of rear gearbox plastic on bottom screw;
- mount for stabiliser bar holder is black not red;
- black springs (MUCH stiffer);
- taller body post;
- roof made out of something different (shinier);
- axles made out of a different metal (shinier);
- propellor shaft is different;
- missing the spacer on the rear gearbox top bolt;
- missing the metal plates around the front upright balljoints;
- missing the plastic washer on the side of the rear gearbox;
- every second screw, bolt, washer is different;
- steering rod/front upright connectors are much shorter;
... and that's just on the outside =)
Comments
Crash Cramer
You know what you have started here will have to fill another couple of posts for the MK1 guys to drool and see all the differences. Nice find and I hope it can stay in the club and intact. Those link pins are cool instead of the screw pins, but I wonder why Tamiya never went with them and why these are so long in the front upper arms??
neobrunox
Perhaps a Hotshot prototype or maybe an interesting clone ?? for sure very interesting
gordb
Crash Cramer: the thread far pre-dates this showroom entry: [Click here]
gordb
neobrunox: I forgot to add the 'clue' (it's in the description now). If you look at the original RC guide book, there is one photo of a Hotshot with the black springs and yellow stabiliser arms). Intriguing eh?
gordb
Rosey: are you sure? The only round resistors I saw were from the 'production comparison' photos I thought? Maybe I'm getting confused though =)
Wandy
Love it...what a find this was. Truly unique and surely nobody else is going to find another like it. It's even more different to the finished examples than I ever thought. Stick some gold wheels on it and you truly have the car from the original promo video, although that one had the familiar heatsinks so not sure if this was what they started off with. I'm very jealous!
JWeston
Blimey! Is there a clue in its history? This is incredibly intriguing - especially as Crash and Rosey haven't ruled much out.
Wandy
Just guessing here but I reckon this is a very, very early prototype and they started off with the standard type heatsink before coming up with the classic design.
Wandy
I wouldn't rule out the MSC & resistors being genuine period fitted prototype items. The gold wheels & pinspike tyres were left for the Supershot and yet the promo video Hotshot had those fitted too. It's feasible that they decided to hold back on fitting this MSC for the Supershot along with the goldies and the pinspikes.
gordb
I'm inclined to agree with Paul on the resistors - I just compared them to an original Supershot, and they look identical. I'm guessing someone unfortunately 'upgraded' them at some point. I do have an original MIP hotshot speed controller in my spares box - but I'm guessing I'll probably leave this bit of history as-is.
gordb
Wandy (excuse me for getting my reply out of sequence) - it's certainly possible. They did change the molding around the rollcage there, so perhaps they changed resistors for the cooler looking ones, and went back for reliability with the Supershot. Maybe I'll pop it open and see what's on the other end at some point =)
Wandy
I just don't see why someone would intentionally remove the beautiful classic resistors for the more boring Supershot ones. Makes no sense to me, especially when the rest of the car has not been modded. I reckon this is a 'Mk0.5', the vid car a '0.75' and Rosey/Chris Smith's are Mk1s. LOL.
gordb
I do agree with you Paul. I think the 'they knew the supershot was coming' conspiracy (see gold wheels + pin tires) is cool - perhaps they really did design the cage day 1 to handle both setups - but I think these being a late 'upgrade' from supershot parts is the more likely scenario.
gordb
Just another thought there - if there was even a single difference in the metal from these to the original supershot parts, it would be a different ball game - but these really do look the same (design, material and finish) - and given every other bit of pressed metal on this kit is different to the mk1 production version (roof is different metal, rear suspension coupling is very different, front upright plates are missing entirely) - it's not impossible, but does seem unlikely.
gordb
Oh - and you can see the internals from Jacques' original restoration here [Click here]
HOLY COW - the rear axles are actually hybrid: the outside is dogbone, but the inside (at the gearbox) is hex like the frog. At this point, it's only the rear that has them, and Jacques mentions he had to replace a missing drive shaft on the front ... I wonder if they were half-hex originally too?
Wandy
It does have the Supershot switch servo plate so I guess it has had the original MSC replaced. Why someone would do that though is a mystery when genuine Hotshot replacements would have been widely available.
gordb
Just checked the old guidebook photo: and if you look carefully, you can actually see most of the differences this car has (resistors aside). It's got the yellow FRP parts, it's got the different suspension adjustor, it has e-clips not screws on all the wishbones, it's missing the extra ribbing on the rear cage, it doesn't have the wire holders on the battery holder, it has the different stabiliser metal parts (square not beveled cylinders), it's got black mounts for the stabiliser guide, and it's hard to tell, but I'm pretty sure it has the same prototype pressed metal rear suspension links, including the two holes =)
And one of the photos of the prototype car does have white wheels!
gordb
Well now you've got me reconsidering things Andy ... perhaps I should put the period resistors + speed controller back in?
JWeston
Do you have much of a clue on previous owners?
Wandy
Gordon, if it was mine I would be changing the MSC, and additionally fitting the gold wheels and pin spike tyres so that it's identical to the original promo car. You'd also have to change the body numbering to 1...although I'm not sure which car they pilfered those decals from.
acprc
The rear driveshaft are aftermarket non Tamiya ones as I have exactly the same fitted to my Hotshot 1.
gordb
Interesting. Do you know where the came from?
Wandy
Which guide book features the photo with the yellow FRP parts? The 1985 one has an exploded view but that has the standard black battery plate and ARB stabilizers...
gordb
85 (page 12 I think). It's the page with the 'actions shots'. Both cars. This link might even work [Click here]
gordb
The driver's head is the same colour too for what it's worth (common colour, so more that it doesn't rule it out)
Wandy
acprc...just had a look at your Hotshot and have to say the driveshafts don't look the same as the ones on this car.
gordb
Agree with Wandy. Look at the last picture - they're the same 3-piece over-engineered drive shafts in the Hotshot, just instead of having the dogbone connector, the inside has a hex insert (and you can even see the fluting on the hex shaft ... is that the same as the Frog?). Either way - unless I'm horribly mis-reading the picture in your showroom, these are quite different, and much closer to the production ones.
Wandy
Definitely different driveshafts. Which rib is missing from the rollcage on this car?
gordb
There aren't any great pictures of it below (10 pic limit and all that). If you look at the top view of the rear suspension, you should be able to see that the roll cage going back from the resistors is perfectly round on the prototype - but it's got a square rib on top on the production version.
c_smith
Congratulations Gordb. This is a truly stunning piece of Tamiya history. Try and get the original front gearbox parts from the previous owner. But even still if they are lost then this is still a priceless piece of history. The general public were never suppose to have one of these. So it’s remarkable that it still exists after all this time.
Otherwise I wouldn’t go changing a thing. You never know, those resisters just may be original. We don’t have enough information. Also have a look at your front gearbox mouldings and compare them to the link I have attached. I think the whole front gearbox may have been changed over. I tell tail sign is the brass bumper stay.
[Click here]
gordb
Chris is correct - the front gearbox was replaced at some point. A shame - but at least the bumper/shock/stabilisers didn't get swapped at the same time =)
Crash Cramer
Okay, I think I want to weigh in here on a few things. Gord, if you don't mind, you might want to snap another 10 photos and make an additional post for us droolers. Since Tamiya were developing this car, would could all agree they may have borrowed from the parts bins of other cars in their inventory, the resistors go all the way back to the Blazing Blazer and also the ORV chassis cars, saying they came from a SuperShot and were added later, well could be incorrect as I don't recall ANY SShot with WHITE FRP resistor brackets. Also SShot vs HShot, where did they get that front body mount?? IT is pretty long, I don't own the early 3 speed trucks, but I think they used those longer body mount hex screws. The SShot used a special length SILVER/CHROME front body mount. Other unique bits to this that it seems haven't been called out is the BLACK plastic base plate for the mounting of the stabilizer arm in the front, under the painted 'U' shaped bit in between the FRP arms. I also think it could have been mentioned, but I will call it out again, these shocks are SCREWED to their mounts where even the Mk1 and later were 'hinge pinned' in place, more free floating if you will. I also noticed there are standard flat jam nuts used on the shocks at the mounting area instead of a 3mm FLANGED jam nut.
Now for a request or question or two, I love the dyed color on the bumper, helps immediately tell us it is a prototype IMHO, but I wonder a few things, are the holes in the upper rear arms any larger than the standard as my eyes are getting older, but they seem larger in diameter to me??? I can't wait to find out what you find when you tear into this, but I would be absolutely curious what the lower chassis part says on the inside along with the fact it has no ribs to protect the servo mount screws on the outside.
There is quite a few things here on this car to tell us it was a MULE, like the UV damage to the front FRP stabilizer bar supports and probably worn front knuckles, to assume that NOTHING broke during testing would be silly and that could account for the front gearbox and dogbone change, I know there is a MK1 gearbox, but let's ask ourselves, Mk1 dogbones are just like what?? The later Mk2 dogbones, so the mixed dogbones on the rear could just be the original design that didn't break, after all the ORV chassis diff gear and the HS diff gears are the same, so Tamiya borrowed the hex design for that, but perhaps the were figuring out size and width, after all, the front and rear drive cups are different in length and perhaps Tamiya fashioned the front set from new and borrowed the rears from the Frog and the like?? To be nice, I don't have any doubts about any of the FRP on this car being Tamiya as CRP and Parma back in the day liked to make their FRP in white/yellow, but they did not copy IDENTICALLY the shapes, they closed off the 'forks' in the front stabilizer holder and they made more of a solid battery door and I don't know that anyone made replacement resistor holders at all. A note about the battery door, it is missing the hole to mount the small battery stabilizing post(a part taken from the Super Champ) so I feel the FRP parts are all Tamiya's doing before finalizing color.
Lastly,for now, , I think Pic 7 shows the nice and different shiny roof best, it isn't a big shot, but what I see does tell me the metal is a bit different from most and it doesn't look just polished or anything like that. I started this post stating Tamiya borrowed from its own parts bins, but it still leaves me wondering where they got the 'thru pins' for all the front and rear arms, and I still wonder why they went 'backwards' and just used screw pins instead which we all know could have devastating results on even a static build [Click here] I would like to think that Tamiya would possibly have offered the link pins or what ever we are calling these on the better car, the SuperShot, but they didn't and I can't think but the first car I have with link pins is the Astute, don't know about the Egress or any other 4WD getting them before 1990. That is what I have to weigh in here on this car, it is a beauty, even if some parts have gone from its original setup, MULES are like that, driven till broken, then repaired with what comes from more R&D.
Crash Cramer
I forgot to weigh in on the prototypes first body. The number 1 font doesn't seem to match hardly anything that Tamiya had made to that point, so it too must have been in prototype mode and could have simply been a numbering system for the Mules under development. Coincidentally, the most produced and final version of the HotShot would have been the 3rd iteration of the phases of trial and error. Hmm, makes you ponder doesn't it.
c_smith
Hi Guys,
The original prototype in the advert shows a body set numbered '1'.
I agree they should have stuck with that.
JWeston
Crash_Cramer, I am convinced you are actiall Crash_Cramer himself! You are the man. Fascinating stuff. As the history of this isn't being offered up I would assume that someone was given an incomplete prototype which was then added to, to make it a complete buggy.
kasparov
Incredible score Gordon, maybe the only one on earth wow congratulations!!
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