442xcar

I just received a Japanese Market kit with the bag this week. Picked it up from Jason, and the kit is number 01016. I've not been this interested in a new release in a very long time. I'm not going to build this one but have another US kit in the pipeline that will end up on the workbench. Thought I would post this thread to all the TC members who are steadily getting their kits in the post. We might get an idea of production numbers with member posts (i.e., Serial Numbers, With bag/Without, ect). Some interesting things I've found about this kit; 1. YES, The body is nearly identical to the original 58001 (White, Green, Red, & Black). That means you can use your old metal body clips and mount the body on a vintage chassis! 2. Tamiya has changed the clear glass parts tree. The frames for the side windows are molded into the windows eliminating the small black frame pieces from an original 58001 kit. 3. Per Tamiya's original statement that the Polycarb body was for running, and the Polystyrene body was for display, that is definately the case. The body clips in the new kit mount into the body rocker area per an original body. This new system is more of a "quick clamp" type for easy installation and removal. Definately not a secure mount for a runner. The Black Porsche manual in the new kit clearly states that the Polystyrene body is designed for display only. 4. The decal sheet is very similar to the original decals of the 1978 Black Porsche. 5. Tamiya has redesigned the door mounting for the new Black Body. Looks more secure than the old plastic sheet reinforced system in the old kits. Once built, you wont see the difference on the shelf. As members get their new kits, look them over and let us know what you find. As for me, I've got a vintage 58001 chassis that is waiting for a shinny new Black Body. Life is good!!!!!!!!

Just posted photos in my showroom of kit 01016 that I purchased from Jason. Japanese Market with the bag. Great kit! http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...13&id=27117

I bought one when he had 10 left this morning. Within an hour they were gone, gone, gone. Had a line on a US release from the West Coast, but being an export it would not have the bag. I think the price for the kit I bought was very fair (Japanese market kit with the bag and Limited Serial Number.....

Maybe the Black Porsche's are flying out of those old collections because someone knows more about the re-release than average Joe? If Tamiya was doing another pan chassis Black Car, it would definately have an impact. That old tech would only appeal to collectors, so would that make sense from a sales point of view? I'm thinking and old school body in black on a modern chassis. Tamiya could do that on the cheap and make money...... We'll see.........

It's always good sense for a Tamiya collector to know where the current market is. Anyone with unlimited resources can go out at any time, and pay top dollar for anything. Let's face it, the fun is in the hunt. I invite anyone to my showroom and while looking around keep in mind that the most money paid for any kit there was $250.00. Also, anything RC related in the showroom has been purchased since last November. Persistance and knowledge pays off everyday.

I'll clarify my comment on the Black Porsche. From a mechanical standpoint, it is a 58001 kit. Body molded in Black, but otherwise identical to every other variation of 1/12th 934 kit. All chassis parts are identical to the 58001 kit, but painted black. Being the very last 934 kit, the wire front bumper had been replaced with the black bumper from the 935 kit. As with any proper "special edition", the packaging of the kit was unique as well as instructions, decals, and bag. The core of the kit is pure 58001 with black paint and plastic. Tamiya never released a 58001 variant again after the Black Porsche, and it was (IMHO) a way to clear the shelves of obsolete parts (with black paint applied). Keep in mind that the CS chassis was ready to be introduced and just about every major part of the first generation chassis was going to be technically and commercially obsolete. Thin chassis, outdated speed control, tiny motor, C-cell battery design, overly fragile - high parts count body, no suspension, ect. Tamiya ran a limited amount of Black Plastic body parts, but those parts were from the same molds used for all 1/12th 934 kits. That set of body molds dates back to 1976 and the most recent Tamiya static 934 re-issue with photo etch is available today. One thing is certain, not many Black Porsche's were made, and few NIB's remain. For collectors, we all know this kit will never be re-issued. Maybe some "Black" Lexan tribute kit, but not the real deal. So the reason for this post is to stimulate constructive conversation within Tamiya Club collectors about where values are for this kit in the current market. It's always interesting to see upper end kits trade in public, especially mint examples that have been stored away in high end collections. It also makes it all the more rewarding to dig up an "unknown" kit outside of the normal collector circles. The 5k kit I mentioned, was the same kit that was pulled from an online listing on ebay and sold privately. I'll not disclose who purchased it. The kit did not sell publicly, but did sell, and appeared on the club about one week later. At the time I posted this thread, the details of the transactions were less important that the values of NIB Black Porsche kits. The interest to Tamiya collectors is that the two kits I've mentioned have changed hands in a short period of time. I think you can bank on more premium vintage kits hitting the market throughout 2009, and that market will always tell collectors where true values are today. All the smoke and mirrors aside, this is not a millionaire playground. Tamiya Club is a community of hobbyist who share a passion for Tamiya. That is where I dwell in the club, and I've made many new friends here who share my passion. You don't have to have a six figure income to buy a NIB Black Porsche, but it helps! Remember, "He who dies with the most toys wins!" Be Well...........

My theory on the Black Porsche was that Tamiya released this kit to clear out all the parts for an obsolete kit. We may never know how many were manufactured, but like the original 58001 kit, NIB examples are rare. It is interesting to see an increase in the Black cars being pulled from high end collections and sold. You have to admit, for the 2 kits I've mentioned the 3k spread in price is a wide margin. Properly advertised with decent photos, the kit would have brought even more. IMHO........

Thought this might be of interest to the Tamiya collector community. The kit sold with one partial photo of the box only, and went on a buy-it-now for $7975.00 plus $45.00 shipping. By my recollection that was a 3k premium over the last one on ebay a month ago. Here was the ended listing; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=320356861788 . Seems the Black Porsche is as in-demand as ever, and they are changing hands at impressive prices...........

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I had a similar situation a week ago. Ended up buying an entire collection of 18 NIB's! Opportunity knocks, and when it does you can't get week. Most will sit in stacks, but the vintage 1st issue kits that will never be re-issued are bringing RECORD prices. Don't get me wrong, I'm a collector first, and only sell to support my collecting. Lessor kits are on a definate downward trend. Those kits are being bought by the builders and people looking for runners. When the dust settles on the current market, you'll find NIB's of the choice kits even higher in value.....

I think it's a combination of factors. One is just like the re-adjustment (drastically downward) of stock prices here in the US. Everyone knew prices were inflated, but the superheated market kept everything artificially high. At least for awhile. Vintage kits were affected by the market forces to a degree. The main difference between normal investments and vintage kits is supply. Everyone knows old kits are relatively scarce, and what was out there came to market in dribs and drabs. The current market is flushing out some great stuff in quantities not usually seen (all at once). All this stuff has not been manufactured in years so we all know the supply is just as limited as before the market meltdowns. The deals we are seeing now, and who knows for how much longer, is purely temporary. The best stuff is still bringing premiums over lessor items. Period. I think I'll stay in the "Buy" column, and hold for the longterm......

I agree that some prices are falling, or high priced kits are not selling. Some of the high end stuff is not selling due to minor flaws (people selling their less than perfect kits), but the best kits are still bringing premium prices. As a buyer, there are many choices, but you still need to be on your toes. Tim D......

Started this thread to discuss my personal observations on collecting Vintage kits in these tough financial times. In a nutshell, I've never seen the opportunities for vintage kits that I've come across recently. I've aquired many kits that have been on my 10 most wanted list, and several of those I've been hunting for years. Prices are all over the board, from absurdly high, to ridiculously low, but the point is that these trying times are bringing some great vintage gems to market. Dead plastic is my passion, and the reasons behind someone selling is less important to me than the opportunity. For the Vintage collectors here on TC, I think years from now we will all look back at todays market and remember the deals that the tough economy brought to market. I'll end my comment on the subject now, but am interested to hear what other collectors think..... PS; I'm off to pick up an entire collection of 18 Vintage 1/12 Tamiya kits, from the 1960's to 1990's. The best way to describe the price was "Fire Sale"! Happy Hunting!

You are right Paul. Small items in a mailer such as decals can be mailed USPS from the US via 1st Class at a very low cost. I sent a Lambo Wing to a TC member a few wekks ago for $1.45 and he received it in 5 days. The weight limit is 13 oz. for First Class. I'm noticing that the UK postal service is starting to molest people via their rates (ala US Postal), and all I can say is it's an indirect internet sales tax. Not to say that Sellers are not using high rates to "skim" profits, and buyers need to do their homework before commiting to a purchase. As for Ebay's shipping calculator, a simple input error can cause major mis-quotes. I purchased a kit out of Mexico and the shipping was very low. The rate quoted was for "Media Mail" and obviously wrong. The Seller emailed and said he needed an extra $9.00. Not a problem. The total to ship was still less than $20.00 which was way below the norm. To the oposite side of the coin, I've sold items with the Ebay caculator. The rate quoted was more than I actually paid for shipping because I print my labels and purchase postage from my business. USPS gives me a back-end discount for doing this, but that actual amount I pay is not what was quoted to the buyer. With some buyers, this small difference is justification for extortion tactics. Tim D....

I cannot speak for all US sellers, but I can speak for myself. A year and a half ago, the US Postal Service dropped all surface rates for International shipping. It left sellers with only Priority Mail International as a shipping option. Very pricey, and if your package goes over the "Golden" 4 pound weight, the rates get stupid. My bread and butter is Antiquarian and Rare books. Books are very heavy. Since the rate increase for Priority only shipping outside the US, I've lost 95% of my International business. Not because of the prices for my books, but because of the loss of inexpensive surface shipping rates. We have no unified Internet Tax system anywhere in the world, but in the US the Government found a way to tax the world indirectly through the service we all depend upon, mail shipment. Sure, there are people who have always made huge profits off back-end shipping charges, but to make a purchase and then complain after the fact does not make sense. You should always know up-front before you commit to buy. If you get solicited after the fact with additional charges, back out. By the way, has anyone out there ever complained to a SHIPPER about shipping costs? Do you think they will NEGOTIATE? Do they worry about negative feedback? I'm sure they will lower their fees just like Ebay will.... All you have to do is ask.... Ha!

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In the case of the Sand Scorcher, the top bidder was "probed". It is totally dishonest for the number 2 bidder (who is now the top bidder) to place a $6,000.00 bid to see where the number 1 bidder (who had a top bid of $5,100.00) was, and then retract his bids. By the way, the guy who probed is now the top bidder in the mid $4,000.00 range. Is this an honest venue? In most cases here in the US, you can't even verify that you are bidding against a real bidder due to identity shielding. In the past, at least you could check a bidders bid history and make an informed decision as to how legit the auction was. All I ask is; How can 6k be bid to see where the top bids are, then retract that bid, force the top bidder to pull out of the auction, and then the "probe bidder" remain the top bidder? Why does Ebay allow this? (answer) = Do the math on fees + Pay Pal.............

You were right Paul, Gray Bumper................

Yes Paul, it may have a black bumper. The price this morning was $5,100.00 before the two top bidders retracted............

A quick update on the NIB kits being sold by the same seller. He now has his NIB Sand Scorcher up on Ebay. At present it still has a little over 6 days to go, has 8 bids, and is sitting at $4,350.00 with free shipping. Of interest was the withdrawal of 2 top bidders who had taken the price to 6K. Second thoughts? Pranksters? I'll be watching this kit with interest. It looks to be a nice NIB but can't tell which bumper it has............

The OCD statement was a general answer to an open ended question. Neither the question or answer were directed at any person, real, or fictional. Anyone who is a passionate collector will honestly admit to the OCD diagnosis. I admit to the compulsion. It is the only way I can justify the stack of NIB's that take up an entire room in my house. If I stopped collecting today, I wouldn't be able to build them all. I do have 2 little ones who love the hobby though, and who knows???????? My Analyst tells me that when I get one of everything, I'll be cured (Ha!). It's all good!

Zulu69, I'd say your kit was very well bought considering the NIB that was purchased this morning. Old 3 speeds will always bring big money. Especially with decent boxes and parts in their blisters. Sorry to hear about the Hilux.......... Tim.

The reason is a mental disorder known as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). What originally was a hobby, becomes a compulsion. I could collect a stack of 10 of everything, but OCD would not properly describe that extreme of collecting. It's what happens to people who eat too much. Eventually they can't get out of bed, or even through the doorway of their house. In that extreme it becomes Gluttony.

Just watched a NIB Hilux being sold out of Japan sell for $4,035.00 (free shipping). There were a total of 25 bids on the kit with a sniper winning at the end. Kit looked very good internally with no broken blisters. The box lid showed corners with old tears, but overall looked good. 4k for a decent MIB seemed about right to me.........

All kit values that are rising, are ones that have been out of production for years. Same for original parts. It's simple supply and demand. Infinite buyers + finite supply + nostolgia factor = rising values. You can try to factor in a world economy that is in the dumpster, and this will reduce the numbers of potential buyers, but it does not increase the vintage supply which is constantly shrinking. Where would you rather put your extra (discretionary) $$. In a dropping Stock Market? In a megahome 2 times larger than you need? The same home that is depreciating (re-adjusting) from a hyper-inflated housing market? Or you can buy collectables. In this case, Tamiya R/C kits and parts. The sad part is that prices rise to a point the the kits and parts become more of a traded commodity rather than the hobby related items they were when new. Sad but true. I enjoy the hobby, and Vintage Tamiya kits are my passion. I keep the NIB stuff in a safe enviroment, and restore old cars to run and enjoy.