djfourmoney
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Posts posted by djfourmoney
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Really? I'm in Canada too and I've built lots of cars but never raced them (competitively anyway) My local Hobby shop used to host mini races in their parking lot, but they've been out of business for years (Boytoys)
Turnouts are fairly large for TCS events in California. Tamiya USA is located here. To get a better idea of who races Tamiya go to the RC Tech forums.
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actually its easy to answer:
Tamiya's have a reputation for sloppy suspensions and steering systems. We all hate to admit it but its true, even on the Extreme high end racing cars as compared to other high quality cars, there is a lot of play in the tolerance.
back in the day we had the same problems, we used to compensate on hinge pins by greasing up the shafts, filling the hinge pin holes in the suspension pouring in CA glue with kicker, hardening it then rolling out with a drill so you would have as tight a suspension as possible.
one of tamiya issues has always been steering systems designed as an after thought to the model. some cars would have insanity long steering tie rods and wonky servo mounts take the avante as an example its like they designed the car, then afterwords spend 15 minutes just throwing in a steering setup.
this all leads to a lot of play in the steering systems, and tamiyas tend to wander.
next up, and its gotten better in recent years, tie rod and suspension geometry the early cars going back to the ta03 had Horrible camber issues with suspension travel. the same with there off road cars. Limited adjustable suspension is an issue also, radical camber and caster angles, bad ackerman geometery.
you had to be an excellent driver.
Look i've Raced Frogs Against Rc-10s and won, i've raced a ta02 and ta03 against a HPI pro and pro 2 and won, but really it came down to the drivers of other cars making a lot of handling mistakes. Even the highest end TFR cars have tons of play in all the suspension and steering system to drive a pro driver nuts.
the next problem for off-road is all foriegn manufactures design there cars for european tracks. these are smoother blue groove types with easy transitions. The schumacher cat is example of problems like tamiya. American tracks are rougher and more thrown together have huge jumps sometimes bad triple jump placement designed more to throw the car off the track then to test the skill of the driver as such, European cars suffered for many years with under designed suspensions. the European model is to use the bottom of the chassis to slap and ride the surface of the track and help drive the car forward.
the american model is just have a monster sized suspension to soak it all up and never let the car slap the track. Tamiya cars suffered a lot more damage on american tracks and people moved away from them
people moved away, hobby shops moved away. For years tamiya was notorious for having zero parts support, this only changed the last 7-10 years. before you had to have an extra kit laying around to break up for parts. this added to the expense of the hobby.
I can remember in my day We tamiya guys, were called the rich kids, since we would literally bring extra cars to big races, nobody had parts and you were on your own.
Back in 1991 during a modified 4wd race against Yz-10s and MRP 4wd cars i ran a modifed Tamiya Vanquish, the track was so rough, i went through 3 chassis on the car since the plastic would shatter on impact off the huge double they had, and during the A- main my rear gear box cracked just before the spur gear, the flexing caused friction and about 3 minutes into the 4 minute A-Main my car melted, the battery shorted and the car caught fire. Oh that was fun living that reputation down. the next week i went out and bought a YZ-10 and went through about 100 of those craptacular rear fiberglass shock towers.
as other companies stepped up in new areas that tamiya lead in, tamiyas were kicked to the side for better performing and cheaper cars. eventually the used car market was also flooded with other cars and you couldn't even sell your old tamiya.
I think a lot of people hung on to their tamiya because they are a unique design , look at the off-road and on-road cars that sprung from the manta ray chassis, they were the only cars that had a completely closed in gearbox. everyone else was chewing up belts, or suffered from chassis stiffness issues.
but a feature like that isn't enough to be competitive, it didn't make up for lack of parts, sloppy suspensions and steering, under performing suspension travel or a moniker during the 90s that tamiyas were toy cars.
That is why its really rare to see any tamiya at a national event.
I race a tamiya from time to time, it can keep up no problem even in modified, but you have to know how to drive it,,,, if you hand your A-main car over to a the run of the mill A-main track hammers they will do one lap and tell you how much your car sucks, even if you bested them around the track by 2 seconds. the handling throws off the kids today, tamiyas tend to push and you have to be delicate in the transitions and turns. kids today hammer around the track.
and the hobby shops kater to what the hammers of today want. which are usually some HPI chassis, or a B4 assoc.
in the pits you see people today basically throwing in a hotter motor or bigger lipo or putting a huge pinion in the gear box to beat people, they all forget you gotta go slow to go fast.
and tierods and shocks are there to adjust.
Tamiya has gotten better the last 5 years and tring to get in there with some competitive designs, but when they do they look just like every other car at the track.
Racing yokomo MR-4s in the late 90s was a freaking nightmare also, you would go through 5 sets of steering blocks or the front plastic chassis parts in a weekend. you come off a table top and hear the snap. it got to a point, were you threw the car in a box to get rid of it and run something more reliable, like a TC3 or B44 or a 8ight or xx4
+1
Tamiya Off-Road cars were just not designed for the Super Motorcross type tracks that Americans tend to create/love you know "Big Air".
I had a Brat which was a Frog and my neighbor had a Super Champ, his friend had a RC10, I'll never for get this -
My neighbor had a rough off-road track in his back yard, it used part of the planter against the rear fence as part of it. Mostly hard patched dirt, some grass and some rocks.
I had recently gotten a 540 which a card came in the box with my Brat for $20 I could get the pinion and motor. I sent it in and about 4 weeks later I got it. I installed it, charged up a pack and lined it up.
The Super Champ had a 540 as well and the RC10 had some Race Prep (since they were the local shop back in those days) Motor. They were both surprised how fast the Brat was especially in a straight line, but the bumps and jumps weren't that bad so the car never really bottomed out, but I was competitive especially when it forced them into mistakes to try and stay ahead. They never made fun of my "Tamiya" after that...
Tamiya's reputation with the hard core racer was woeful in the 80's and 90's, it wasn't until the late 90's that they finally got their act together. This was proven because since getting serious about competition that's taking sales away from the more boutique manufactures so they have had to invent new markets (1/18th), make closer to scale bodies (HPI), RTR which Tamiya still dominates and entry level racers (Kyosho EP-10 and HPI E-10) where released by the competition.
I think Tamiya is in the good place in the market and the market fears them, understandable. This is why I bet on Sony years ago when they released the PS1, Nintendo and Sega did not have the cubic dollars to compete if they got it right and they got it right. Some might say (off topic) that the PS3 didn't quite do what was needed. I say its because of the constantly delay of GT5 is the major reason why PS3 hasn't sold as strong and a recent survey states that up to 33% of potential PS3 owners are waiting for that game to be released.
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Actually when you think about it, more people race their Tamiya than ever before, here me out.
With Tamiya first kits, they were raced, which is why Tamiya developed their own Hop Up parts. This was mostly in Japan however.
Back in the late 70's, the big classes were gas 1/8th On Road, Associated and Cox cars dominated that. When Tamiya released the Super Champ about the same time Associated released the RC10 in the early 80's when the Frog was largely uncompetitive Tamiyas were just not the choice of serious off road racers and that was the "Thing" in the 80's. When Tamiya introduced the Touring Car, it added another dimension to 1/10 electric on-road that was dominated by "Pan" cars until that time (Associated and others).
Let me say that I believe Tamiya always thought about the enjoyment of the hobby first and competition second. When "racing" and not modeling became the thing in most R/C magazines (starting in the 80's) Tamiya by much of the competition establishment was thought of a company that made nice looking scale bodies but they were heavy and the cars brittle for competition. When Tamiya USA was opened in California, it became clear that competition improves the breed so to speak, so Tamiya being one of the biggest R/C companies in the world used their considerable engineering talent to slowly build up a catalog of competitive cars.
First it focused on Touring Cars, then Off Road.
Today to stay competitive the "Hard Core" companies like HPI, Losi and Associated have had to go down to the entry level market to where Tamiya DOMINATES, which forced them to make closer to scale looking bodies and not "funny cars".
TCS Racing is very popular world-wide, there some naysayers out there that wanna bring their non-Tamiya product to such a well-attended organized event complain about the lack of diversity and don't wanna buy a "Toy" Tamiya car. But as Team TRF has proven its very competitive and the constant development of the $400 cars filter down to the $99 car.
There is at least ONE Tamiya car at any ROAR Event, there is thousands of Tamiyas at local Hobby Shop events. At the last Vintage Trans Am event in Indy, 4 of the Top 10 cars were Tamiya chassis.
A 7 hour Endurance race was won by a 2009 BMW M3 GT2 bodied TB-03 IFS, he bought the TT-01 kit to get the body...
HPI got into the Mini market solely off the success of the original Mini Cooper chassis, which HPI also races.
Tamiya is just as much a innovator as it is a successfully competitive competition car to those that know how to handle it. The added element of collectivity just adds to the lore of the cars and brand.
My .02
Oh I also wanna say that there's a movement for more "scale" looking classes in R/C after years of the "blob" touring car that doesn't look like anything in particular.
TCS has banned "Dished Wheels" starting this year and in GT-1 is the only class where you can run the Tamiya Suburu B4 Touring Car body and Dish Wheels.
Vintage Trans Am is also promotes "Scale" and "Realism"
RCGT restricts bodies to specifically "HPI" and "Tamiya" scale bodies.
There is a movement for more realistic looking cars and I for one welcome it for open arms.. Long Live Tamiya...
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As the title says, still sealed. Bought for TCS originally - $125 FIRM, Trades welcome however like for like ie: NIB for NIB or XB
SOLD!
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First post, but a long time Tamiya fan.
I am looking to enter the TCS Races here in Southern California (Tamiya HQ) and I would like to start at the bottom.
TT-01 is the only chassis allowed, so if somebody wants this car more than I do they are welcome too it.
I have listed for a price elsewhere on the web and I know its value, but I'll listen to offers for it.
Thanks, please no low ball offers, this car has never been out of its box more than an hour since being finished, there is no dust!
It also has full set of Tamiya Ball Bearings.
SOLD!
Why Do So Few People Race Their Tamiya's?
in RC Racing Talk
Posted
Its the same basic shape, before NASCAR had the "Car Of Tomorrow" R/C had the "Car Of Tomorrow" all the cars have the same basic aerodynamic shape, if you removed the decals you couldn't tell none of them apart.
You can have good looking race cars that function well, nobody can claim the World Sport Car (WSC) was beautiful but some effectively nice looking cars have been produced mainly by Audi (via Bentley) - Dallara and Porsche. Everybody likes the Panoz "Batmobiles" as well.
I don't know why R/C feels like it needs to reinvent the wheel, some cars just have better aerodynamics. But R/C tracks are more about downforce and mechanical grip. There is no long, following designed in the previous era track out there. For one they take too much space for the return on investment. European tracks tend to be outdoor affairs but again the tight and twisty nature of these tracks put the importance of downforce and mechanical grip over straight line speed.
All the different bodies, aren't different. They look the same, remove the decals and you have the same basic shape. If these were OEM car companies they wouldn't agree to such nonsense and actually the OEM's hate the COT, ask them. They want brand identity and you can't get that with everybody having the same shape.
Even if you wanted 1/10 Touring Car to look like its WTCC counterpart, you could do it. I have seen SEAT and BMW bodies out there, I haven't seen a Cruze yet, but if people demanded it, it could be reality.
I buy Tamiya for realism, its only slightly more for any of the carbon flat chassis touring cars out there and I could run any "stock" 1/10 class out there but we all know those cars are not "stock" and budgets largely drive what people have. Somebody with a entry level X-Ray is not going to be competitive with the next guy/girl with a TRF-416xxx.
TCS was created as a haven for people that have varying budgets and a way to promote their products. For them its a Win-Win. Why buy the new FF-03 if your going to be instantly uncompetitive at your local track vs 4wd cars. When Tamiya will give you a place to race your car with people that have pretty much the same car. Only driver skill level and attention to detail eek out what looks like large lap time differences.
I'll end by saying I enjoy top level 1/10 touring car racing, its fun to watch. Last year's championship which can been seen on RC Racing TV and on You Tube was just as much fun to watch as any real motorsport.
However for the rest of us that are mortals, I prefer box stock racing with a few tweaks and realistic looking bodies so fans have instant recognition.