Saito2
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Posts posted by Saito2
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By diff housings, do you mean gearboxes? They are the same between the two cars. All the diffs, Avante planetary gear and new/old Egress ball-style, are relatively durable and unitized or self-contained.
BTW, you can take a look in the old Egress manual here on Tamiyaclub to see how the old-style diffs go together.
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Thanks guys!
Here's what we're starting with. You'll have to excuse the non-professional mess in my evil laboratory of green tea and shoegaze music. An old dish towel from my wife will be standing in for a slick cutting mat. Just off camera is a Frog and Big Boss in pieces. Its a mess but I know where everything is. All the parts visually look okay despite their advanced age. I went through my usual process of heating them up in water and then slowly allowing them to cool to "anneal" the plastics and relieve any internal stresses. Does it do anything? Maybe. I like to think so but then again, I'm vegetarian so can you really trust my mindset?
Of course I have a back-up for just about every piece pictured:
I got these parts for about $20 a long time ago for my runner Madcap and only used one, lol. The Super Astute FRP parts pictured also cost $20 from a kit breaker back in 2018. It was cheap and I figured I'd use them on a project someday. Well someday is here finally.
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The central ball diff is not adjustable and should be run tight. It pairs well with front and rear ball diffs, taking some of the "edginess" away from the buggy. Though the center one-way torque splitter is there as a tuning option, few seem to prefer it.
The original ball diffs are quite different than the re-release version. The re-re diffs are more modern in their approach and adjustment. The original diffs were shim-style, relying on installing varying numbers of shims placed within the diff to alter tension. There were comparatively laborious to adjust but didn't loosen and maintained adjustment better, though the range of adjustment was more limited vs the infinite adjustment afforded by a traditional diff screw. These were the style of diff that frequently failed in the King Cabs, etc. The Egress however was blessed with stronger alloy diff housings (vs the pot metal versions in the King Cab, Astute, etc.) which didn't bend and distort. These are the same diffs found in the old 53034 kit.
If Jamie Booth-style suspension modifications that alter front kick-up are in the cards, the original style diffs must be used. The re-re ball diffs rely heavily on the the Avante's unique front suspension geometry that placed the front diff outputs in line with the suspension pivot points.
As far as the gears themselves, despite new plastic always being preferable, they were constructed of fiber reinforced PA plastics less supportable to age than usual Tamiya ABS/PC.
The original Avante came with a Technigold for power level reference, though the drivetrain overall is pretty durable.
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Confession time. I have a love/hate, no...love/disappointment relationship with the Astute. I always found it to a beautiful buggy with great capability let down by some odd and inexperienced design ideas mixed with typical Tamiya materials of the day.
To set the stage, I was hungry for a new competition level 2wd car from Tamiya back then. While the 4wd buggies were constantly developed, Tamiya kinda left 2wd to entry level (Grasshopper/Hornet/etc.) and mid tier (Falcon/Sonic Fighter) offerings. Their jumps in "competition oriented" 2wds from the Super Champ to the Frog basically stopped at the Fox. The Fox, never a hardcore contender against the RC10's dominance at the track, was quite long in the tooth by '89 when a promising new 2wd buggy came out, the Astute. Glancing at the preview shots, the Astute, part of an all-new breed of off-roaders from Tamiya that year, looked like a viable contender. When I finally saw one at the hobby shop, the peculiarities like the adjustable rear hubs and tiny bushings residing at just about every pivot point stood out. Feelings were mixed. I liked Tamiya's typically unique approach but I was also concerned about possible needless complexity (leading to potential fragility) having just been through the original Avante fiasco. As it turned out, those feelings weren't too far off base unfortunately. While I appreciate Tamiya's refusal to be cookie-cutter, seeing breakages at the track made me think oh why couldn't they have keep things simple and emulated the RC10?
As it turned out, they had, just in the Astute's little brother, the Madcap. Despite being mostly plastic, lacking the Astute's cool, in vogue, monoplate chassis, the Madcap was the basic 2wd car with potential I had hoped for. Bearings, oil shocks, and a metal motor mount were all it took to get this lightweight buggy keeping pace with an RC10. It might not have been quite as tough as Associated's aluminum tub wonder but it wasn't exactly as fragile as the Astute either. The fact that many pro Astute drivers "downgraded" their rides with simpler, lighter Madcap parts wasn't lost either. I waiting for an Astute loyalist to leap to the buggy's defense, claiming its rock-solid reliability. Maybe it was for them and that's good but it wasn't what we experienced in our area. As always, your mileage may vary.
Here's my old Madcap racer BITD. It was tired by then, but still holding together.
Here it is nearing its restoration completion.
When the Super Astute was re-released back in 2018, I was keen to get one. Tamiya had made changes, simplifying the buggy. It offered a unique look at a platform that Tamiya actually race developed. It still retained some annoyances though, like the bronze bushed pivot points and the criminal use of press nuts. While mine stayed on my shelf over the years, Tamiya bringing it back at a much cheaper price juxtaposed against the much higher priced RC10 variants being shotgunned out this year stirred me into considering giving it another go around. The buggy just looks so beautiful.
A combination of future financial struggles to come and my stubbornness in preferring the simpler Madcap (along with encouragement from those here
) plus a surplus of old Madcap parts pushed me to forgo another Super Astute in favor of one pieced together, mostly from used Madcap parts.
This is as close as it gets to a build thread. It will be slow as parts trickle in and this topic sinks and bobs back up in the forum. I only know old stuff and how to put that stuff together (and most importantly, why I choose the parts I do). Its more a look back at the parts that worked the best and not a look forward at developing the buggy further. For me, there are race-bred tools today that do the job with such precision, that I'm happy living in the past, working mostly with what was around back then. Be back soon, same dirt time, same dirt channel.
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Nice looking Madcap @bavee
. I will try to post something about the build, probably in the vintage section. I don't quite feel piecing a buggy together from old spares quite fits the high standards and awesome custom creations in the builds section.
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On 10/24/2024 at 7:34 AM, BuggyDad said:
The rear hubs look the same too.
The C1 part might be the same but I'm not sure about the Blitzer rear hubs (also on that sprue, but not pictured above) will interchange. It sticks in my mind that while they look the same externally, I think Tamiya changed the bearing spacing inside.
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1 hour ago, ucacjbs said:
Thanks. Yes, I wasn’t anticipating the TD4 becoming a collector’s item (bought one because I figured it would be interesting to see Tamiya’s latest 4wd buggy after building a HS2). More looking for reasons *not* to splurge on some of the other deals right away, if there’s a reasonable periodicity to this kind of thing.
Ok, gotcha. Yeah, @SlideWRX's response is bang on. I bought a TD4 for much the same reasons.
I found it hard to pass up some of these deals myself but my collection is big as is. Its tough when the savings are so great but good deals alone can't be a major purchasing decider for me at this point. Its cool to see others taking advantage of these savings though.
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Thanks guys. I'm trying to be a bit more careful with money. We all know how project creep can swell investment past our initial estimates
. I'm moving forward with the hybrid bitsa build.
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26 minutes ago, ucacjbs said:
are these sale prices typical?
Tamiya USA typically prices things very high to push customers to LHSs and other channels. Tamiya USA kits are priced as a "last resort" type scenario when all other options have been exhausted. While this sale is a bit larger than normal with great deals (the sales do quietly drop randomly, periodically throughout the year if you watch very closely, the TRF201 was steal at $180 for quite awhile).
The TD4 and TD2's seem to have been a sales flop at compared to their expected demand originally. As far as a repeat of the original Avante scenario, where kits were blown out for $100 only to be worth ten times that in the early fleabay days before the re-release, its not going to happen with the TD4. I don't predict it as a future collectable. We're not in the golden age and the hobby is shrinking, not growing. Once we move on, younger generations won't have the rabid desire for a Super Avante.
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Are Tamiya aluminum pinions really that bad ? I think skom25"s answer sums it up:
16 hours ago, skom25 said:Shortly speaking: they are crap.
At least that's how I initially thought (still do for my personal use cases). Its a part that can be replaced from the start, quite cheaply, with a zero-maintenance part that will last forever. Why not do it and recommend it to new-comers? Even if they weren't destructive as @Wooders28 photo clearly shows, it would be worth for it alone not to have that gray mess staining the next gear in line for me at least.
But then Mark posted this...
14 hours ago, markbt73 said:My point, with all of this, is to counteract the effects of the typical "you absolutely MUST replace the pinion with a steel one IMMEDIATELY or your car will be UTTERLY RUINED" narrative that always seems to pop up in beginner-advice threads. The truth is, you can build any Tamiya kit straight out of the box - yes, plastic bushings and all - and have a blast driving it. We did it in the '80s, no reason someone can't do it now. I'm always worried that too many pieces of "advice" about "required" extras thrown at beginners will scare them off.
You can, of course, replace the stock pinions if you want. But telling people that they need to do so is, in my opinion, bad for the hobby.
...and I get where he's coming from. A short time ago I raised the unpopular opinion (in that thread's context at least) that using supplied Tamiya tapping screw was okay for new kit builds. I also stated its basically a fun hobby and if folks wanted to tap screw holes and use aftermarket machine screws that was okay too. We all have our ways of doing things.
So taken to the far extremes, we have a side that might say you need a machine screw set, thread forming tap, steel pinion and bearing set (and possibly Lipo batteries/brushless motors if we want to go down that rabbit hole, lets not for now) before even starting a Tamiya build. The other side would say to build it stone-stock like many of us did in the 80's and everything will be fine. I'm sorry, but extremism is one part of how my country got into the mess we're in. Common sense is down the middle with compromise and few people seem to go there anymore. I agree with @markbt73 that these bold declarative statements are not good for the hobby.
While I don't think doing away with suggestions of steel pinions and bearings is the answer, I think how we couch or frame those suggestions to newcomers should be just that...suggestions not "YOU MUST". Us folks deep in the hobby all have our idiosyncrasies about how we like to go about doing things. We can get really into the weeds. This hobby is about fun and trying new things and finding our own way of doing things.
I've gotten flack for still using nimh batteries and (gasp!) mechanical speed controllers in some of my rigs. But technically, if I want to fully adhere to the Tamiya-way, I would be using aluminum pinions too and checking them for wear periodically for replacement. Its in the Tamiya RC Guidebooks. Granted, better things have come about since those books were printed, but doing things the old way is fine too. They are model ("toy" offends some folks it seems) cars, not open heart surgery.
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So, I've been saving for a Super Astute to run (I already have a shelfer), hoping for it to make it to the States in December. In typical fashion, that appears to be pushed out until April now. At $218 this time around, its much cheaper than it was in 2018. The $389 RC10 asking price makes the SA even more attractive. I'm a Tamiya guy after all, not an Associated one. So, as mentioned in other threads, there are tariffs looming in our future (how those will lower prices, I'm unsure
). What they'll include and from what countries seems to vary so they may be a lot of hot air as usual. Still, not a cheering thought. Snagging one from the far east adds an instant $100 for shipping which is a no-go. So, basically, its a waiting game to see if they'll be affected by April.
Then there's plan B. I have a lot of Madcap spares and a Super Astute chassis/shock towers. I'm in need some hardware like suspension pins (or the dreaded screw pins) and an Astute body/undercowl. Piecing cars together can nickel and dime you to death with small odds and ends but it seems like I'd be out $125-$150, complete with shipping, to gather everything needed to pull this Madcap/Astute hybrid off.
Now on one hand, the Madcap parts are obviously old (though well-stored and visually in good shape) and I'm dealing with a Madcap ball diff. On the other hand I have duplicates of all my spares (4 suspension arms, 4 uprights, 4 rear hubs, etc.), even an extra transmission. Both ball diffs are in working order and it won't see anything past a Torque Tuned motor bolted to it. I can even save at least $60 by sticking an old Madcap body on it and dealing with a scratched up FRP chassis plate in use (hey, my RC10 Graphite never had an undercowl either) as the TBG body/undercowl is probably the single most expensive part on the list.
So, do I sit and wait patiently for the SA or try building my own with the risk of old parts but potential savings (and finally putting those parts to use). I know a SA and Madcap (I'm pretty well-versed in both) are not the same, but feature-wise, I'm just as happy with either.
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10 hours ago, F-150 said:
Once the Trump Tarrifs hit, these cars will be lot more expensive in America.
If they are as far reaching and across the board as threatened but time will tell.
I have a bunch of Madcap parts hidden away along with a Super Astute chassis. Maybe I can come up with a cheaper alternative or maybe we'll get lucky.
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17 hours ago, Hobbimaster said:
For those in the U.S. waiting for this kit to arrive, looks like Horizon updated the ETA from December, to April 2025. I suspect Amain would be in the same time frame. I was hoping to get one local before the holidays, but looks like its going to be an overseas order for me
Thanks for the update. Disappointing news. I hoping to snag one before the new year before imports are potentially swept up in this potential tariff mess.
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2 hours ago, TurnipJF said:
namely the lack of front kick-up.
Good point! The missing kick-up and huge front scrub radius make this chassis quite a handful when the power is turned up. I remember just keeping things "straight" when on pavement could be tense.
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I noticed that with the RRP pinions too. I feel the same way about new motor mount on the T-shot series cars among other things.
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While fascinated with its ingenuity, I never really "got" the MIP 4wd RC10 concept. Perhaps, early on, the idea was since the 2wd RC10 was such a dominant product in 2wd racing, a 4wd version would do the same in 4wd (if they had even split the classes that early on)(?). I don't know. Either way, as 4wds went mid motor (well, Tamiya had it right before Kyosho
) and their chassis and suspension geometries developed, the RC10 4wd seemed to make less and less sense to me. They're very neat to look at but not something I ever craved for the collection.
The Egress was the ultimate Tamiya of my youth. I dreamed of it taking on Lazers, YZ10s and Procats (perhaps not). The Jamie Booth version would doubtless be my favorite of those listed.
The TRF411x is past my "era" and I know relatively little about it aside from what I've read on here.
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I did that for years but can honestly say I didn't have wobble like that. That seems excessive.
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On 11/29/2024 at 2:45 PM, JimBear said:
On a more serious note - does this sort of thing affect the two motor Clod Busters too?
It doesn't seem to (my Dagger, actually Twin Detonator, behaves much like @Juggular's). I don't know if its the larger tires that dampen the divorced twin motor effect or the Clod's bouncy nature that mask it (although my smooth riding mod-Clods aren't affected either) but I don't feel this effect in the Clod like I do a Dagger.
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The suspension is in full droop in that running video. Try compressing the rear suspension (both trailing arms) to level out the driveshafts and re-test to see if the juddering diminishes. The dogbone end of the universal shafts might be close to pulling out of the diff outdrive cap at full extension. Also, the Monster Beetle shafts were not made properly either, being 90 degrees out of phase which caused vibrations (though yours appears extreme). Tamiya rectified the issue with the later Blackfoot re-release which uses the same chassis. Just some things to start with.
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You know, somehow I don't envision the original Wild Willy quite pulling off that maneuver on the quarter pipe,
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For years I've read and heard through various old ads and promos that the original Wild Willy did wheelies, jumps, spin turns and jump turns. I know what wheelies and jumps are and suss out what a spin turn is but, what exactly is a jump turn?
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Went to a park yesterday. The forecast was for cold, yet clear skies the night before. It turned out to be bitter cold, cloudy and windy. The Top Force made about three laps before it began to snow. Enough of that nonsense. Packed it in and headed home.
Today was still pretty cold but I was determined to get a Javelin run in.
They may not be quite as competent as the Mids, but I really dig how the old rear motor Optima series runs.
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Ah this impossible question!
As much as I love a good Hotshot buggy or the beautiful Egress, narrowing it down to just one means its gotta be a truck, just for versatility's sake in my case.
Now, when you say one, do you mean one single model or can I have multiples of the same model?
Either way, the Clod Buster can be modded in numerous ways or can be fun stock. With their size, they can go lots of places. Parts will always be around. The only downside is the same size that lets them go where mere normal RC's fear to tread also makes them a pain to lug around.
My first Tamiya, the Lunch Box comes to mind. Its simple, bulletproof design means even my original '87 model could be pulled off the shelf today and ran. Excellent for beach use too. Its simple design does limit it sometimes too, so...
The winner for me is the Monster Beetle. This was the one that got me hooked on Tamiya so its appropriate in this case. I like to tinker and the ORV monster has enough fixable flaws to keep me entertained. Once it is bulletproofed, the Monster Beetle provides a bit more off road competence than the Lunch Box, even if I'd never take it to the beach. Parts are plentiful. There's a reason its stablemate, the Blackfoot, was likely the most popular 2wd truck here in the States at one time. So yeah, give me a Monster Beetle.
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We lost our True Value Hardware store last year and I miss it greatly. It's hardware selection was unbelievably dense compared to the stupid big box orange hardware store that moved into town, ultimately driving them out of business. I digress. That's a good point about the SAE hardware @markbt73.
I admit my viewpoint is biased as there was no way I could afford an RC10 or Ultima BITD, so my experience was limited to the Ultima re-release. Granted, the re-release s a lot closer to a Turbo Ultima in mechanical terms. Just having it in my hands, it seems like a more fully engineered vehicle or perhaps more polished in its execution, even if the original was under-equipped from the start. The basic bones of the car almost feels like they're a bit of an undiscovered, or perhaps undervalued, gem. For all its genius and ground-breaking engineering, the RC10 was quite rough around the edges. The novel 6-gear tranny, while unique, was clearly not the way forward even without the egg-shaped gears.
I also wonder how often racers upgraded back then. Cars aren't particularly cheap. While the Kyosho (Cox here in the US) Scorpions were superior to the SRB, there were a ton of accessories out for the SRBs. For racers that had invested heavily in upgrading their SRBs it might have hard to justify tossing all that investment aside for the Scorpion, then again the Frog did take off before the RC10, so who knows. This is all just guesswork on my part at this point.
One thing's certain, the RC10 was such a leap forward that you pretty much had to get one in the States if you wanted to be successful at the track. If most racers had an RC10 or had invested in one before '87, that might cut into the Ultima's potential sales along with all the other issues we're previously mentioned. Associated had perhaps rested on it laurels a bit, not only at the '87 Worlds, but also in the marketplace. After all, when you can't keep up with demand and the RC10, one product amazingly, was driving rapid business and production expansion, its a bit easier for something more advanced and better equipped like the JR-X2 to sneak up on you.
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Madcap built with Astute parts.
in Vintage Tamiya Discussion
Posted
The transverse battery cups were leftovers from my earlier Super Astute build so basically its because I'm cheap and this is a budget build trying to undercut the price of a new Super Astute, lol. In all honesty, I may spring for some re-re SA G-parts which have the in line battery mounts along with the front brace I'm curious to evaluate.
Much of what I've found over the years parallels the findings of Kontemax, though he goes into deeper depth. Great write-ups.
So here we have the rear arm mounts. As others have noticed, they are the same parts found on the Stadium Blitzer C-parts tree, which is where these are from. I figured 10 year old plastic might be better than 30 year old plastic. The C trees look very similar between the two models but Tamiya did modify the mold for the rear hubs (no longer on the tress pictured) when they re-used the tree for the Stadium Blitzer. In a pinch, I believe the rear hubs can be made to work for the Madcap with a little parts juggling but that won't be an issue here as I have original Madcap rear hubs to use.
The rear arm mounts for the Madcap are both meatier, thus stronger, and lighter than the Super Astute version with its bushings installed. The SA did add the advantage of using a crossbar across the front pins to increase durability over the original Astute. Obviously as others have seen, the 3rd outer hole won't be used on the SA's FRP chassis deck.
One can only guess at Tamiya's theory in using tiny bronze bushings at all the pivot points. My guess was to eliminate slop and offer the bushings as sacrificial wear items over the plastic parts. Tamiya were/are well known for what we call "Tamiya-slop" in the joints that's there from the first day. I'm sure maintaining hole tolerances is tricky with injection molding and subsequent material cooling rates. Tamiya seems to err on the side of "loose" traditionally to allow ease of assembly vs an old RC10 that might require careful drilling/filing to achieve a smooth pivot action (albeit with potentially less slop if done correctly by the assembler.). While more slop may negate some of the more fine adjustments made to the suspension, it does make for a less "edgy" vehicle when driving.
...and here we are installed. The front mount hole was tapped for an machine screw, thus allowing for an added nut. The rears are just tapping screws (heated before insertion to reduce installation fracture possibilities). There isn't clearance above them for a nut as the outdrive will reside there at a future time.