Cuiken
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Posts posted by Cuiken
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Okay, so I had 30 minutes messing around with my newly acquired TA02. It definitely needs more ride height and this is easily achieved by removing one or both of the internal spacers from the shocks.
I was thinking of removing the larger v3 spacers in the first instance (leaving the smaller V1 spacers in place) and seeing how that goes.
@TurnipJF, did you leave any of the spacers inside the shocks for your TA02 Audi Rally car? Ride height looks about right.
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15 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:So I have totalled up my build cost. Comes in at just a few p short of the limit. Build will commence next month.
BUDGET SILVER CAN RALLY BUILD OFF CHALLENGE Item Cost From TA-02 Opel Calibra V6 £131.17 Amazon High Speed Gear Set £9.17 Ebay Bearings £13.99 Ebay Pinion £4.99 Ebay One-Piece Ball Thrust Bearing £3.17 PJ R31House Servo Saver £4.21 PJ GPM Motor Mount £10.25 AT GPM Aluminum Servo Mount £4.79 AT JX Servo 15Kg £10.63 AT RX £7.03 AE TOTAL £199.40 Nailed it! Bernie approves.
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In my experience, yes, a bit stiffer front diff does help. At least it has worked well on my XV01s.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the T02S comes with non sealed diffs?
If so, then options are a little more limited than with a sealed diff setup (where you'd just add thicker silicone oil). I might try filling with a really heavy conventional grease (this sort of stuff https://quadbikeswales.co.uk/maxima-grease-waterproof-453-59-ml-16-oz-blue.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwmouZBhDSARIsALYcoupanP4r12gXaZwoPBABUQHofjkeW1X1E6qGxvMU_y0pJl_t79xlpgUaAk7yEALw_wcB).
If that doesn't create enough of an effect you could maybe try the silicone earplug trick?
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Is the thrust bearing mandatory? Wondering if I can get away without it if running a silver can motor.
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On 9/14/2022 at 1:53 AM, alvinlwh said:After 5 pages of discussions, I do not see a MF-01X mentioned? Is that one not a good entry? Or does it cost too much to bring it up to specs? If it is similar to my M-05Ra, I had to spend close to £100 to bring it up to "acceptable" standards. CVAs, CVDs, bearings, pinions, steering comes to over £70 IIRC (if bought in the UK). That will probably blow the budget completely?
You know, it's an interesting shout.
My mate has one though and, despite a couple of hop ups (inc CVAs), it's just so far away from being able to keep up with a TT02 or XV01. Just being that bit smaller and much 'bouncier' on bumpy surfaces make it a real handful to drive. I've seen a few youtube videos that highlight the same issues and that it's a very difficult chassis to tame.
All that said, it's certainly 'in class' if someone fancies a shot with one.
Being an obsessive sort of chump I now have three possible entries. Initial observations below:
1. XV01 - Such a great chassis. Beautiful handling and definitely among the smoothest of 1/10th cars on bumpy surfaces. Only issue I'm having is getting any speed out of it on a silver can. As previously reported, the motor runs super hot with a 24T pinion. No obvious friction in the drive train but the belt may have been too tight. Dropping back to a 22T pinion and running a slacker belt seems to improve things but the motor still got warm. It's a puzzler.
2. TA03F - I'm pretty besotted with this one and it's worked out super cheap. After selling the unwanted radio etc the car has only cost me £35! I've raised it a little by removing the internal spacers from the shocks, aded fresh ball races and added a front bumper, otherwise it's just as it arrived with me. Total spend £60. Even with a silver can it's way faster than my XV01 and the motor doesn't seem ot get warm at all.I'm puzzled but delighted. Handling wise, it's like a road oriented XV01 (no surprise there). Corners beautifully but a bit less composed on bumpy surfaces. I have high hopes that this can be tuned out though.
3. TA02 - I went for the used TA02 on ebay (just got too curious). I've not actually run it yet (only turned up last night) but the chassis looks simple and robust. Shocks are weirdly set up though. Really limited travel because they include both the V1 and V3 spacers in the build. The oil in them also seems far to light. I'll rebuild with fewer spacers and thicker oil and report back. It's relative simplicity makes me suspect it's handling may not be quite on par with the TA03 but, mid/rear motor will still be interesting and the shaft drive can only be more reliable.
Happy rallying this weekend if your cars are sorted.
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14 minutes ago, GermanTA03Guy said:That is absolutely correct in my World.
And that is exactly like my car drives.
See the absolutely massive 4 wheel drift, but with more opposite lock needed than with regular 4wd (this is what the 15t in the rear causes, oversteer on power). It feels a lot more like an rwd drift than the Common 4wd drift on loose surfaces with straight front wheels.
And These slides are induced with the slightest lift of throttle or dab of the Brake, really like with a handbrake only. This is what the one way causes - i have the one way in the front. So Oversteer off power as well .
This is great fun, but, yes its difficult.. oversteer off power, followed by oversteer on power results in VERY tail-happy. Absolute Hoonigan tool.
..
And
My products all had the same sticker. Below the sticker it says the opposite
I strongly think that the sticker was put there quickly after market introduction as they saw that for the masses or for beginners or kids without 30+ years of experience in oversteer it's just too Hard to drive like that.
As you say, if you put it the other way, 15t in the front and one way in the back, it must be way more forgiving to drive for the beginner (understeer on power, understeer off power), maybe even quicker on a lap for most. but way less fun for the connaisseur.
In the end, you can put both elements where you want to Influence the driving characteristics to your liking. Everything should work. What makes sense for your Application is ultimately up to you.
Dude! Thanks for the detailed response. I'm clearly going to kick off with the oversteer option. Looking forward to the frost now
I'll probably try it out with a front wheel drive bias at some point too. Nice to have something to tinker with and it's delightfully simple to swap it around.
Thanks again for the tip on the TA03F BTW. I'm already enjoying just working on the one I picked up.
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So, I got all excited about my TA03F and bought a torque splitter. It came with the instructions below which I can't make head nor tail of (mainly because of the comment on the white sticker):
My understanding of the part was that it should overdrive the rear axle so giving a rear wheel drive handling characteristic until wheelspin occurs whereby the front wheels will come into play.
This would suggest (to me) the one way going on the front gearbox and the larger of the two pulleys also going on the front (so that the smaller pulley on the back causes the rear wheels to spin faster.
My confusion stems from two points:
1. The sticker says to replace the stock counter sfat on the rear. The diagram below suggests replacing the counter shaft on the front.
2. The diagram suggests putting the 15T pulley on the front and the 17T pulley on the rear. This would overdrive the front wheels no?
Like I say, bit confused. Anyone got any thoughts?
@GermanTA03Guy, I know you've installed one of these. Do the instructions make sense to you?
Ta.
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1 minute ago, alvinlwh said:Fastrax rally blocks come with wheels and glued for about £10 for 4 or £6 for the tyres only. Works well enough for my TT-01(Ra).
That's a great shout. My mate uses those on a TT02 rally build come to think of it.
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2 hours ago, naturbo2000 said:Whilst I try and scramble to stay in budget (ish), can anyone comment on how well 26mm tyres fit and run on 24mm rims (I'm thinking tamiya rally block on tamiya m-narrow wheels)?
Also a fair amount of my running will be on grass. Well kept, but far from a bowling green. I understand that I'll need to ride height mod my TT02S to something like 25mm and know how to do so. I'm guessing the TT02S cut slicks will fail on such surface, but is there any usable alternative to Tamiya rally block tyres for grass?
I'd stick to rally blocks for grass:
1. Best grip on off-road surfaces.
2. Slightly larger diameter gives a bit more ride height.
The cheapo soft ones from China seem to have a slightly larger diameter than the genuine tamiya ones too. They are cheap and effective off road but, it turns out, wear out incredibly fast on tarmac. I suspect they'd be fine on 24mm rims, might add a fraction more ot the diameter too which is likely useful for the TT02.
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2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:That is the fun of it, I got a bag of silvercans that I had no where to use, so I smoked them. In all seriousness, it was actually a really useful exercise as I learnt more about gear ratios by smoking them than ever. When I run out of silvercans, I will put something nicer in and run it at a sensible gear ratio.
Now, in your case, just had a thought, what surface you were running it on? Just remembered the VX is a off road-able vehicle?
Smooth tarmac! Really no easy explanation for it. Good news is that the ESC at least seems to have survived.
Maybe the motor was just a poor example. Tamiya motors are generally robust though (when used in spec).
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12 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:
60/50 (they are the smallest and biggest spur and pinions I can find) and IR of 2. Did managed to get 40mph out of a silver can though. 😁
With a trail of magic smoke behind you
That's really impressive. I doubt I was hitting 20mph and still smoked the motor
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14 hours ago, alvinlwh said:@Cuiken I had melted quite a few brushed motors with inappropriate gearing. The worse (or best depending on how you see it) is FDR of 2.4 on a silver can. Goes up in smoke after about 3 packs of lipo. 😁
Well, that's the thing. I got one pack of lipo with a final drive of ~7.4 (2.6 internal * (68/24)).
No idea why it was running so hot. I went over the car last night and the front and rear gearboxes were nice and smooth. Only issue I could guess at is that I'd over tensioned the belt.
I've slackened that off and will give it. run with a stock silver can and a stock 22T pinion and see what happens.
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4 minutes ago, Pylon80 said:I have that on my TT-02 rally and it's a huge amount of fun. I have also installed a spool at the back. Setup this way, the car won't post great times on a rally race track but it will be fun to drive it realistically on gravel.
The main limit on lap times will be, as ever, my driving skills
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Just now, Pylon80 said:You can get a HW 1080 for a few dollars more and the 1080 is flawless, comes with the program box etc.
Yeah, I use one in my Kyosho Outlaw......
It's twice the price though (£40 vs £23) and doesn't have the bluetooth programming or throttle curves. Obviously they are moot points though since the basic functions of the ESC70 aren't great.
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2 hours ago, Willy iine said:I'm more a brushed motor antique guy, so..
Totally! The nice coasting behaviour of a brushed car is part of the charm.
The ESC70 (or at least the one that I had) appears to ape the 'braking effect' you describe where the wheels can't overspin the motor when there is any throttle input. It's extremely pronounced too, like a HW AXE system.
Clearly this is great for a crawler but it's not what I'm looking for in a general purpose ESC. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed it.
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Just now, GermanTA03Guy said:You can put it where you like, but yes, thats the config that will give you Brake to the rear only and more power to the rear. Which is what i like in rallying. Powerslides and handbrake turns.
Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out.
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Okay, from the sound of it then, I might have had a dodgy one and could be worth buying a replacement when my refund comes through.
Connection issues aside, I think the issue with the drag brake put me off most of all. Seemed like a fundamental issue with the design but maybe, again, a dodgy part. The issue was simply that you can't coast into a corner because the car actively brakes as you ease off the throttle.
If you happen to have one of these ESC in a car or buggy (probably not crawler) could you take a look at the behaviour described below and see if yours does the same?
1. Set drag brake to 'disabled'
2. Sit the car on something to keep the wheels of the ground
3. Give the car 100% throttle and then immediately release to 0% throttle. Do the wheels 'coast' down to a standstill (as you'd expect with drag brake disabled)?
4. Give the car 100% throttle and then quickly reduce to ~25% throttle (or any low value above 0%). Do the wheels 'coast' down to the new speed? On mine they would be 'braked' down to the lower speed by the ESC rather than being allowed to reduce their speed gradually. This behaviour was actually ore evident with the motor removed from the car.
Cheers.
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Not wishing to start a pile on here but curious about other people's experience of the ISDT ESC70.
Currently available for £23 on Amamazon, and claiming some useful features along with suitability for all brushed cars (not just crawlers), I thought I'd gove it a shot.
You mileage may vary but I could not get it to work for a few reasons:
1. Connectivity to the phone is comically bad. It usually connects initially but, more than 50% o the time, when you try to update a parameter (drag brake etc), it will report a 'time out' and you'll need to restart the app. At this point you'll find that it has sometimes failed to update the parameter, sometimes succeeded and sometimes set it to a random value. It took me over 30 minutes to update four values.
2. Calibration. When you first turn it on, the ESC won't let you run the motor. Checking the app you'll find that it wants to calibrate the ESC to the Transmitter. Esat peasy, nice little routine that asks for a neutral, FWD and BRK input. Then it goes off to do some stuff and 50% of the time will report a successful calibration. Otherwise, you'll need to restart the app and try again. Unfortunately, even after a successful calibration, the next time you start the app, 50% of the time it asks for a calibration again or reports a motor error (requiring a fresh calibration) before you can run the motor.
3. I did eventually get past this setup hassle and installed it in my TA03F for a quick test. What immediately became apparent is that you can't (at least on my particular ESC) disable the drag brake. Or you can, but only sort of. If you disable the drag brake (after a few attempts) and then go from full throttle to zero throttle, the car will coast to a standstill. If however, you go from full throttle to 20% throttle (for example) it will rigidly force the wheels to rotate at 20%. So basically a drag brake. I tried everything and it could not be disabled. The upshot is that, if you ease off the throttle going into a corner, the car would just immediately spin out because the wheels have basically been dramatically decelerated up by the ESC.
It's really annoying because the feature set of the ESC is great and the car ran with plenty of 'punch'. It just required constant reprogramming to get it to work and, even then, has this weird drag brake behaviour. Maybe the latter is okay for a crawler but it didn't work at all in my TA03.
Has anyone had a better experience?
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9 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:That ESC, is great when it works. I must have a run of bad luck as I had a 50% failure rates on mine, 2 out of 4 did not work properly.
Interesting to hear that. I've actually returned mine. I might start a different thread on this topic.
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As an aside, I also took my TA03 side project out for a very quick test run.
It's far from ready for a proper outing but everything worked just as it should.Apparently it was built 24 years agao and yet, with no maintenance, the shocks remains full of oil and it drove fine. The old analogue servo is comically slow and the ISDT ESC70 I put in it was terrible but otherwise really promising stuff.
Only issue was ground clearance which is just too low for aything other than smooth tarmac.
I found a bit of time yesterday evening and swapped the internal shock spacers from the stock V3 ones to the smaller V1 option. This raises the car by ~5mm and rally blocks will help too. No binding or rubbing in the drivetrain and the suspension feels way better now. I also swapped the front springs for some slightly stiffer ones as the nose kept bottomg out on my test run. Ohh and ball raced the whole car.
I've sourced a torque splitter for it (thanks for the tip @GermanTA03Guy) and will get that fitted some time this week. Daft question, torque splitter (shaft and one way bearing) go in the front and with the 17T pulley on the front and the 15T pulley on the back?
I'm also going to add a second belt tensioner as even the fresh belt I've sourced is running a it 'flappy'.
Big surprise was how fast it is. I ran a stock silver can motor and a 20T pinion (as recomended in the manual for a ball raced car) and it really shifted. Way way faster than my XV01 which further suggests I have some unidentified issue with friction on that car.
I was considering running it on a sport tuned but I'm thinking that may be too fast for circuit racing (at least with my level of skill).
Anyway, I'll probably start a seperate thread on that car as, like I say, it's a side project.
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Okay, update on the car(s).
In a dry spell over the weekend me and my mate actually got out and did some racing. Recent torential rain mena the ususal woodland spots were too waterlogged so we opted for a road stage in a large carpark. Got some spray chalk, marked out a circuit (about 16mx8m) and got underway.
It was great fun. Even better than I'd expected. My mate's TA04 was a good match against the XV01. Not as easy in the corners but way faster on the straights. It made for some great racing with both cars running at speeds where you could actually choose racing lines and overtake without wiping eachother out.
The XV01 is a great chassis, freshly built shocks with long eyelets gave a bit of extra ground clearance and made it lean really nicely into the corners. All good scale driving stuff.
Only issue was that, after one pack, the torque tuned motor died on me. Now, IIRC the stock piniopn on the XV01 is a 22T which is to be used with the stock silver can motor. Conventional wisdom says you can up the tooth count on tour pinion with a torque tuned (or maybe I've got that wrong?). So, I put 24T pinion on the torque tuned and went racing.
The motor is absolutely toast (I should hae noticed the reducing power) and it may also have taken the ESC with it
Bit surprised it was running so hot is all. The drive train seems to be running freely enough. The only issue I can think of is that I used a fairly heavy (sticky) grease on the gears. I've used it on all my other cars without issue but maybe the extra drag is just too much for a brushed setup?
I'll need to find a bit of time to take a look and see if there are any other sources of friction going on.
Focussing on the positives though, the concept is sound. I mean, it's hardly original, any club will limit motor power for racing but that combined with a budget limit made for really interesting cars and racing.
Also, just taking the 5 minutes to chalk out a proper circuit made all the difference compared to just blasting around a basic oval. Can't believe I've not done that before.
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All good chat here and good bit of education. Thanks.
As an FYI, I had a reminder of the perils of brushed motors this weekend. I was running a torque tuned in my otherwise stock XV-01 with a 24T pinion which is just slightly larger than the 22T the kit comes with. After one pack (with plenty of breaks) I noticed it slowing down. Figuring it was the battery I swapped for a fresh pack went back out and the motor more or less instantly smoked.
Seems odd as there is no resistance in the drivetrain (freshly rebuilt) and the belt tension wasn't too high. Clearly it was overgeared but, wow, I'd forgotten how sensitive brushed can be. Or, at least, I've never managed to do this to a brushless motor.
I might consider trying to build a cheapo 17.5T combo for it instead.
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Thanks for all this info. I'm erring towards a 13.5T Hobbywing Quickrun sensored motor. It claims ~2700kV which feels about right.
Possibly I'm paying for the brand there but I generally have good experiences with HW so maybe it's worth it. Plus, the Quicrun motor's sensor wire exits at 90 degrees to the can so is nice and easy to route in a TA02 (which is what I'm planning).
Cheers.
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Some really god stuff (IMHO) turned up on eBay over the weekend.
An XV02 with motor etc went for £240 delivered. Sell the brushless rig and you'd be in budget (was tempted myself).
A TA02 with MAX10 combo and a load of hop ups went for £150. Anyone here go for that one?
An XV01 with a couple of missing parts (gear and belt cover) but a radio that could be resold went for £103!!!!
Makes my XV01 look like less of a bargain
Silver can budget rally build off
in General discussions
Posted
Dear Alvin,
Thanks for your enquiry. Apologies for the delay in responding. I had a busy weekend extracting myself from some arrangements I had with Russia. Nothing for you (or the UK government) to worry about.
Yes, absolutely, The Torque Tuned is in play. I think the definition of silver-can includes the stock motor plus Torque Tuned and Sport Tuned. Sport Tuned might seem a bit of a push but, at least in my experience, they end up needing to be geared down a little to avoid overheating so don't end up dramatically faster than a stock can. By including all three motor varieties I figured we can choose to trade off torque vs top speed.
Hope that helps!
Bernie