Wheel and tyre options - DT-03

[BuggyDad]

We have original wheels and tyres of course (Neo Fighter x2), and then we have Aqroshot/Blitzer wheels with Schumacher tyres for grass mainly, with their extra height, but just using them for everything off road in reality. Direct replacement, just front axle change. All just for kicks, no racing. 

This is great for us at the moment but I also quite like the idea of hard wearing tyres for tarmac/all purpose, back to buggy size (ish) and a look that's same front and rear. So I guess I'm after cheap same (or nearly same) width front and rear buggy size wheels and all terrain tyres for 2wd. Partly also because we've got some body shell ideas which suit this and for which I'd prefer not to start by trying to cut arches for the bigger wheels.  

I see these rear wheels:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-rear-wheels-hex-black-off-road-pr-379711

These fronts:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-front-wheels-hex--black-2wd-pr-379724

These fronts are 2wd but also hex. I get that you can fit hex to front with adapters but is this something different? And do they take same width tyres as rear? They're not the "slim" fronts.

And these look a reasonably priced tyre option:

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-road-and-track-rt1-rear-green-2--372476

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-road-and-track-rt1-front-green-2--372477

Ideally though I think we'd go for something a bit less tarmic focused and a bit more rally. 

Carson are mentioned often but don't seem much available in the UK.

What do you suggest? 

And as an aside, do a lot of folk run sets of rears on the front with the hex adapters? I've watched a video of the gpm ones and they look flawed to me, with the wheel outside both bearings and running directly against the nut flange on the outside. I can't see how they work long term without the wheel being sandwiched between two bearings. 

[TurnipJF]

Hex-to-bearing adapters are not my favourite solution for 2WD front wheels. Wheels designed to hold bearings are a better option. How about these?

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-wheel-front-med-2wd-flexlite-white-pr-370365

[alvinlwh]

@BuggyDad I am looking for the very same thing at the moment for my Holiday Buggy (DT-02) and is considering the wheels @TurnipJF suggested. But I want yellow wheels so hex might be the only solution (not keen on painting wheels as they will get chipped and all that). In the meantime, I had ordered some hex adapters and will report back on how well they works. Thing I do not understand is, they rotate with the wheels, will they not unwind or wear out as they rub on the fixed wheel nuts? The rear (or driven wheels) rotate together with the wheel and axle, but on our cars, they do not. I will know when they actually arrive.

If you choose the hex route and want cheap tyres, Fastrax Arrows are what you will need. I currently have them on the rear only for testing. 

[alvinlwh]

FYI, this is the combo I am considering and emailed them and they confirmed that it will work (size wise). They are still off road tyres, but using harder compound thus more hard wearing (but not sure how well on tarmac). BTW, do you know the sizes of the tyres you listed? They are not in their specs. 

Rear

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-wheel-hex-rear-neon-yellow-v2-off-road-pr-433865

With

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-mezzo-1-10-rear-blue-pr-1334749

And

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-foam-insert-hard-rear-1pr--25662

Front

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-wheel-front-slim-2wd-neon-yellow-v2-pr-433863

With

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-cut-stagger-low-profile-blue-pr--388003

Or

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-cut-stagger-green-slim-pr--422457

And

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-foam-insert-hard-4wd-front-1pr--27236

[alvinlwh]

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

 

 

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

 And as an aside, do a lot of folk run sets of rears on the front with the hex adapters? 

I refer you to this thread which I asked a few weeks ago. The reason (even though the original question was for 4WD) for not running same sized (width) front and rear is slimmer fronts is better for steering and sometimes, clearance. 

 

[Sir Crashalot]

4 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

And these look a reasonably priced tyre option:

I think those tires are for touring car wheels.

The wheels @Turnipjf mentioned take imperial bearings.

Proline use to make a variety of road tires for buggy wheels.

[Wooders28]

I'd go for these Schumacher Block tyres in the blue (hard) compound.

Yes they are a 2" tyre, but they do fit on a 2.2" wheel (gives your thumbs a bit of a work out, but do fit...) 

Rears-

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-block-rears-blue-cat-2280

If you went for the wider front wheel -

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-block-fronts-blue-cat-2279

 

I didn't bother with inserts, as the tyre is really low profile anyway, so there's not much roll.

These are the blocks (yellows) on a 2.2" wheel (4wd) 

 

Although ,for the fronts, I needed to flip the tyre inside out, and trim the lip in half, for it to sit right.

 

 

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

And

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-foam-insert-hard-4wd-front-1pr--27236

I generally don't run inserts in the front on a 2wd.

[Busdriver]

5 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

@BuggyDad I am looking for the very same thing at the moment for my Holiday Buggy (DT-02) and is considering the wheels @TurnipJF suggested. But I want yellow wheels so hex might be the only solution (not keen on painting wheels as they will get chipped and all that). In the meantime, I had ordered some hex adapters and will report back on how well they works. Thing I do not understand is, they rotate with the wheels, will they not unwind or wear out as they rub on the fixed wheel nuts? The rear (or driven wheels) rotate together with the wheel and axle, but on our cars, they do not. I will know when they actually arrive.

If you choose the hex route and want cheap tyres, Fastrax Arrows are what you will need. I currently have them on the rear only for testing. 

I have a set of hex/bearings adapter and frankly they are 💩. They are in my spares box where they are stay for a very long time. This wheel tyre combo thing is a real conundrum especially now that people seem to be experimenting with wider or equal width front to rears. It’s made even worse if you want 1.9” wheels rather than 2.2” buggy wheels

[whahooo]

7 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

This is great for us at the moment but I also quite like the idea of hard wearing tyres for tarmac/all purpose, back to buggy size (ish) and a look that's same front and rear.

Here you got Tarmac wheels, they don`t have that buggyish look, but for tarmac they seem to be a good option:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carson-500900134-All-Terrain-2WD-Accessories/dp/B00U8HCTDQ/ref=sr_1_38?keywords=dt03+carson&qid=1636616499&qsid=257-1775177-7458745&sr=8-38&sres=B0018M96YA%2CB00T9WVMMA%2CB00T9X6B5C%2CB00TFWENGG%2CB00T9WXAIY%2CB00V2W2OHW%2CB00V2VT3UO%2CB00L97LEXU%2CB00I92DLI4%2CB00I92DJO0%2CB00I92DN3C%2CB00I92DLK2%2CB001RC1EF0%2CB08PVTHGQ6%2CB00I92DLFW%2CB00J5DBD54%2CB003R7JUPE%2CB08GYG8PGG%2CB00TFNH0HE%2CB079LTQV5V

 

 

I use these Wheels on my DT02s and they perform good on tarmac and are very good "all Terrain" wheels.
When i run them on my Backyard Track on Grass, they feel "too grippy". But they also do not have that classic Buggyish look:

https://www.amazon.de/Carson-500900028-Felgen-Set-Terrain-Modellbauzubehör/dp/B0037YBBVS/ref=sr_1_9?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=carson+2wd&qid=1636616719&qsid=259-3340849-4118739&sr=8-9&sres=B00U8HCTDQ%2CB00S6R3H2M%2CB06XJ5JC8V%2CB07C9KPL4T%2CB07BRW7L74%2CB00S6QTKVK%2CB00S6S4N38%2CB08WJ3LN3R%2CB0037YBBVS%2CB00Q70JK76%2CB00U8HSYF8%2CB084GXN6V3%2CB0034Z8C1C%2CB07V1H7K45%2CB0043RNGV6%2CB005UDQBX2%2CB08V99ZZ95%2CB084GY28GP%2CB07CFW5BCC%2CB01CYE0SOC&srpt=NON_RIDING_TOY_VEHICLE

For my Holydaybuggy they work good and look good.

[BuggyDad]

I noticed this thread I'd missed when searching last night:

This seems to me a good solution... 

Looks like have to get these shipped from HK:

https://www.3racing-parts.com/3racing-sakura-fgx-heavy-duty-wheel-axle-fgx124-p-90052673.html?ref=cart

https://www.3racing-parts.com/plastic-parts-part-for-3racing-sakura-fgx-fgx107v2-p-11184.html?ref=cart

Cheap parts, not such cheap shipping. But not prohibitive. The other bits all look pretty standard and readily available. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by BuggyDad

[Nikko85]

When I've converted I've used a 12 x 5 x 4 mm bearing in place of the hex hub. It fits right in, doesn't need anything else, and is the perfect size. 

However you do have the other side to deal with, an 850 bearing then the wheel nut? 

 

[whahooo]

8 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

However you do have the other side to deal with, an 850 bearing then the wheel nut? 

You could put a Ballbearing and a mini Washer on the axle, this would "work".
But the Bearing will be exposed to Dirt and it would look a bit odd....

 

 

 

I think these Tires would also be a good "all terrain" tire, but on tarmac they will be bald very soon:

I love the "baloony" look.






Here you see the Carson ones in the front:

 

 

 

 

 

[alvinlwh]

4 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I'd go for these Schumacher Block tyres in the blue (hard) compound.

Yes they are a 2" tyre, but they do fit on a 2.2" wheel (gives your thumbs a bit of a work out, but do fit...) 

Rears-

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-block-rears-blue-cat-2280

If you went for the wider front wheel -

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/schumacher-block-fronts-blue-cat-2279

I didn't bother with inserts, as the tyre is really low profile anyway, so there's not much roll.

I generally don't run inserts in the front on a 2wd.

How good are the blues on tarmac? After all, OP and myself are both looking for use on road. I was told blue is OK, is that true? 

I was told that inserts also reduce wear, is that true? 

Thanks for the tip about the fronts, I did wonder if the fronts need them or not myself. 

[alvinlwh]

5 hours ago, Sir Crashalot said:

I think those tires are for touring car wheels.

That is the whole problem with searching for matching wheels and tyres, they are not always sized in their specs. Yes, Motorsports has a size filter option, but that will sometimes filter out wanted size/items and the width for the fronts are still unknown. Why can't they label tyres and wheels like real cars?

[alvinlwh]

I found this diagram of how the hex adaptors works.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001684973331.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.15629fcdbGrkcA&algo_pvid=3859b990-fd77-4dc1-b931-b32897abe625&algo_exp_id=3859b990-fd77-4dc1-b931-b32897abe625-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000017128263377"}

As I feared, the spinning wheel will rub against a stationary wheel nut. This instruction calls for a washer, but the problem remains. 

1 hour ago, Nikko85 said:

When I've converted I've used a 12 x 5 x 4 mm bearing in place of the hex hub. It fits right in, doesn't need anything else, and is the perfect size. 

However you do have the other side to deal with, an 850 bearing then the wheel nut? 

 

1 hour ago, whahooo said:

You could put a Ballbearing and a mini Washer on the axle, this would "work".
But the Bearing will be exposed to Dirt and it would look a bit odd....

But will this solution not leave one side of the wheel unsupported? The stock bearings wheel has 2 bearings, one on each side, giving even support. Maybe on undriven front wheels, it matters less?

[BuggyDad]

@ChrisRx718's conversion I think is what I will do at some point. It creates a properly engineered axle using bearings as intended and opens you up to any option under the sun wheel wise. As I think about this I think maybe it's not so much about tarmac, more about optionality. Tarmac was just my trigger. 

NB the pic that appears in the link thumbnail thingy is not the solution proposed, although it also looks like another good solution if requiring more parts and probably more modification. Solution proposed is essentially just to replace the knuckle with a 4wd one that fits, plus the associated parts to go with it and a little bit of filing. Original C hubs are retained. 

The Carson All Terrains do look about right except I'd like wider fronts just for appearance's sake. 

@alvinlwh I could order multiple sets and send one on to you if you like, to ease the postage burden. The knuckles and axles themselves only add up to £7.50. Then postage is same again! My kit's all still in the box awaiting stainless screws and pivots but it sounds like you and I are aiming for quite similar builds. 

After those bits you just need bearings, hexes and pins. 

[alvinlwh]

8 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

 

@alvinlwh I could order multiple sets and send one on to you if you like, to ease the postage burden. The knuckles and axles themselves only add up to £7.50. Then postage is same again! My kit's all still in the box awaiting stainless screws and pivots but it sounds like you and I are aiming for quite similar builds. 

That sounds like a plan, but if you want to ease the postage, do more shopping. I often make the mistake of hitting order on PJ/1999 and then realised that I need something else 2 days later!

Drop me a PM, I will have a peek on what else they have and might be suitable for the both of us.

One question though, where did you get your stainless stuff from? There are some SS sets on Amazon, but they comes with 25/50 of all sizes but for us, we need M3x10 and 12 more than M2.5s, so I am not keen on getting such sets. Wondering if there are some "pre-packed" screws for chassis.

[BuggyDad]

44 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

That sounds like a plan, but if you want to ease the postage, do more shopping. I often make the mistake of hitting order on PJ/1999 and then realised that I need something else 2 days later!

Drop me a PM, I will have a peek on what else they have and might be suitable for the both of us.

One question though, where did you get your stainless stuff from? There are some SS sets on Amazon, but they comes with 25/50 of all sizes but for us, we need M3x10 and 12 more than M2.5s, so I am not keen on getting such sets. Wondering if there are some "pre-packed" screws for chassis.

Will send you a pm.

On screws I went for these:

https://www.accu.co.uk/en/172-plastite

I took a punt on 30 vs 45 threads. 30 is sharper angle. I think the pitch is the same either way but I don't know whether it's the same as Tamiya's. 

Various head options. I went torx but only because all sizes were in stock in torx and I've got a t10 Screwdriver shaped driver. £22 for 2 cars' worth plus a load of spares. 

It seems to me that polyfix is the proper shape for pre-drilled plastic. 

I haven't actually seen them yet, mind. And I didn't order any of the 2.5s, just replaced the 3mm self tappers. 

[Frog Jumper]

IMO, get the Tamiya star dish wheels, paint them how you like, and mount any 2.2 buggy tire. Get multiple sets and swap them out depending on terrain. Schumacher sells all kinds of 2.2 tires as does Proline and a bunch of other 3rd party manufacturers.

[whahooo]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

But will this solution not leave one side of the wheel unsupported? The stock bearings wheel has 2 bearings, one on each side, giving even support. Maybe on undriven front wheels, it matters less?

I mean in combination with an 12x5x4 Bearing on the inside like Nikko wrote:

2 hours ago, Nikko85 said:

When I've converted I've used a 12 x 5 x 4 mm bearing in place of the hex hub. It fits right in, doesn't need anything else, and is the perfect size. 

 

 

So you can put a 12x5x4 bearin into the Hex und on the outside you "press" a normal bearing.

You have to chek that the outer Ring of the Braring is attached to the wheel somehow and that the inner Ring has a spacer to the Nut.

So the wheel isn't totally supported by the Outer bearing like a 2wd wheel, but it has a bit of support and the nut will not rub against the wheel.

 

 

Not the best option, but maybe worth trying.

[alvinlwh]

26 minutes ago, whahooo said:

So you can put a 12x5x4 bearin into the Hex und on the outside you "press" a normal bearing.

You have to chek that the outer Ring of the Braring is attached to the wheel somehow and that the inner Ring has a spacer to the Nut.

So the wheel isn't totally supported by the Outer bearing like a 2wd wheel, but it has a bit of support and the nut will not rub against the wheel.

Not the best option, but maybe worth trying.

I believe (had not measured yet) that the flange of the wheel nut will press out the higher side of the bearing, be it the inner ring or outside ring or both. Since both the wheel and nut will be pressing on the higher side, nothing will turn. Spacers may work but with so many items on that axle, it may run out of space to tighten the wheel nut. If I make sense...

I shall do some measurements and trial and report back. 

[alvinlwh]

37 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

IMO, get the Tamiya star dish wheels, paint them how you like, and mount any 2.2 buggy tire. Get multiple sets and swap them out depending on terrain. Schumacher sells all kinds of 2.2 tires as does Proline and a bunch of other 3rd party manufacturers.

Does the Schumacher 2.2s fit straight on? Slim ones right?

[BuggyDad]

For my money, on a fixed axle, things need to go:

Knuckle - bearing - wheel - bearing - nut

With inner and outer bearing race elements marrying up with neighbouring bits correctly.

With the hex adapters, the wheel seems to sit outside the outside bearing, so how does it work?

Is there friction between nut and wheel (and bearings not butted up correctly to the nut)? Wheel wouldn't last 5 minutes, surely?

Or is the wheel inner diameter drilled out to bigger than the nut, in which case the wheel is held on only by its tight fit to the adapter, so essentially a wing and a prayer? I can't see that holding up. 

Or is there something else going on here I've missed? I haven't seen the adapters in the flesh. 

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

How good are the blues on tarmac? After all, OP and myself are both looking for use on road. I was told blue is OK, is that true? 

They're not bad, so a great alrounder.

They're not bad on grass, astro ,carpet or tarmac and the hard compound means they're quite long lasting.

This is them on my Mid, some wheel spin ,but with 3800kv/3s ,you'll get that whatever tyre.

 

If its 100% tarmac ,then maybe the 'Venom' might be a better option,

Truck venoms on FTX Mauler wheels, WT01, need slightly wider hexes-

 

 

It does look like the 2" Block 4wd fronts, fit on the stock rims? (Look stock?)

https://m.facebook.com/modelsport.co.uk/photos/a.1860052000683943/4294829420539510/?type=3&source=54 

 

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

I was told that inserts also reduce wear, is that true?

I've only used inserts ,to stop the tyre rolling,  a bit like running slightly higher pressure in 1:1 tyres, so guess if the same is true, then correct 'tyre pressure' could reduce tyre wear.

Not sure if you'd run the 'tubby' 2" insert or the 2.2" insert in a 2" on a 2.2" wheel to give the ' correct pressure' ? 

I'm running the tubby in the Mid for racing on Astro, and they're solid!! 

 

 

I helped Barry, aka Granddad Stinky , with his front hex conversion, after I found the Kyosho RB5 was pretty much a bolt on mod, but it looks like the 'photo bucket ransom' has broken the thread up a bit.....

Although, RB5 parts look a bit thin on the ground now and a therefore ,a bit pricey, but looking at the thread above, there's plenty of options 👍

[alvinlwh]

@Wooders28 Thanks, lots of info for me to think about. For road use, I can use Fastrax Arrows (pictured above), which are cheap and disposable, although not yellows. Now that I think about it, tyre wear may not be that big a issue for me since mine is only on a tiny 380ST motor, but I will still probably go for blues.