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BuggyDad

My DT-03 for fun driving and tinkering

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2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

If it is just 3mm difference, 53539 will have the right spacers to take care of things. See my front hex for DT-02 thread to see how they are used. But for the front lower, I believe I used 54395.

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Unless I've missed something the shortest I've got is c.37mm, which is 12mm too long. But I should have something suitable coming. Unless I've missed something? 

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So it looks like my ESC was just water shorting the set button. Opened it up, cleaned it out, tested it and am now getting some of the conformal coating on there. Won't try to seal the casing but I figure it makes sense if what does get in there is made less likely to short things. A stroke of luck! 

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On the subject of setup, turnbuckles etc, it seems to me that even to this numpty small changes can have big effects. I've only got a phone to measure but at 2° negative camber the car seems to be really quite a bit better than stock arms (didn't measure, but the rear looked like positive camber). Front toe I guessed and set too far out initially, reduced it to what I think is 3° (but my measuring is particularly poor for toe) and much better. 

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54 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Unless I've missed something the shortest I've got is c.37mm, which is 12mm too long. But I should have something suitable coming. Unless I've missed something? 

I thought you are needing 3x22mm ones? 

4 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Am I right that with these sets you're still missing the ones for the outer lower front pivots (3x25mm for 22mm clip to clip)? I found some GPM ones in the USA but obviously shipping doesn't make sense for them. Then I found titanium Schumacher ones in the UK for £5ish, which I've ordered. Hopefully they'll do the job but I can't be sure how well they'll fit til I get them.

Presumably for this? 

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Then that is exactly what this set is for. 

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1 minute ago, alvinlwh said:

I thought you are needing 3x22mm ones? 

Presumably for this? 

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Then that is exactly what this set is for. 

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Yeah that's the ones but to replace a 22m threaded one I reckoned requires a 25mm e-clip one, taking account of where the grooves are?

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Just now, BuggyDad said:

Yeah that's the ones but to replace a 22m threaded one I reckoned requires a 25mm e-clip one, taking account of where the grooves are?

https://www.thercracer.com/2013/10/tamiya-dt02-guide-mods-tuning-and-tips.html?m=0

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Fits straight on like a glove. Not surprising since that is exactly what they are made for. 

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5 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Yeah that's the ones but to replace a 22m threaded one I reckoned requires a 25mm e-clip one, taking account of where the grooves are?

Just to confirm. 

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37 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

https://www.thercracer.com/2013/10/tamiya-dt02-guide-mods-tuning-and-tips.html?m=0

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Fits straight on like a glove. Not surprising since that is exactly what they are made for. 

😳

Great! Mine should be here any minute! 

Surprised though. One of the others I've already used came with a bit of paper I think, or maybe I found it online, comparing the threaded vs e-clip ones and showing the length difference which I recall at 3mm. I measured I would need >=21.5mm clear shaft between the clips):

20211212_231229.jpg

Anyway, thanks! Mine should be here in a few days. 👍👍

It also sounds therefore like the Tamiya 22mm ones are 22mm net rather than gross, which then also means they won't do the other job I had in mind for them (kingpins on TRG201 C hubs) but I've got Schumacher 22mm kingpins coming too so hopefully they will. Plus I've got the backup of aluminium DT-03 c hubs (slightly worried about the increased track of the TRF201 ones), which I think would need the other 2 Tamiya 22mm shafts as their kingpins. Fingers crossed a plan is coming together one way or the other despite some mistakes! 

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So I thought I'd prep the parts and assemble the hex conversion pending arrival of the last remaining parts (only king pins required to run). Done one side. 

Two wheel options... 

1. Egress:

20211213_201918.jpg

20211213_202124.jpg

2. Kyosho:

20211213_202706.jpg

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Ride height is sitting up about 5mm at the front, which can be dropped back by 2mm by rearranging spacers. Track is about the same as stock with the Egress wheels but I think the Kyosho ones are +6-8mm at each corner. I noticed that I was already running that kind of rear width with my Fastrax wheels. 

The new parts take the kingpins outwards but that's made up for by the axle/wheels, hence no net increase to track. Steering geo has changed with increased caster and also the more inboard position of the ball connector on the upright; I'm not sure what that'll mean in reality. 

Both sets of wheels are from JC Racing. I thought I'd like the Kyosho ones better but the Egress wheels are edging it at the moment! 

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Nice! I prefer the Kyosho wheels as a stand alone wheel over the Egress, but the Fighter Buggy has quite a lot going on design wise (it's not anywhere as slick as an Optima Turbo for example) and so the busier Egress wheels do suit it better imo. Really liking the direction this is taking!B)

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This is @matisse's hex conversion using Schumacher Cougar uprights and TRF201 c hubs. The c hubs need filing down about 1mm to fit the lower arm, the turnbuckle needs moving to behind the shock to avoid fouling it and the uprights need a 2mm spacer to fill the c hub, maybe a bit more once the uprights settle in. Lower c hub pivot needed reaming out from 2.6mm to 3mm to match the lower arm and I also reamed both parts to take a 3mm kingpin, but I suspect they could've gone together as stock with a 2.6 x 22mm shaft and some suitable spacers. Quite pleasing to get a precise 3mm with a reamer - no slop at all.

Steering lock may be affected by some fouling of parts, but it may run OK, not sure. Anyway, I have other options before cutting away some lower arm material, which I'd like to avoid. Will try inverting the upright, once I've got all the parts together. And/or I could space out the ball joints to take the turnbuckle back in front of the shock. 

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12 hours ago, Kol__ said:

Nice! I prefer the Kyosho wheels as a stand alone wheel over the Egress, but the Fighter Buggy has quite a lot going on design wise (it's not anywhere as slick as an Optima Turbo for example) and so the busier Egress wheels do suit it better imo. Really liking the direction this is taking!B)

I agree. I wasn't that excited about getting the Egress wheels. Bit finicky in design. But then I got them on the car and they look so good. They combine being sort of menacingly black with lots of different angles for light to glint off. 

Haven't got them dirty yet though - they will be quite difficult to clean.

It's maybe also a bonus that I've got two wheel sets with quite different offsets to try.

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On the hex conversion, new c hubs, ball joint positions etc, with a little tidying up nothing fouls.

I can see that the steering geometry has changed. Including, I think, an increase to "Ackerman". Now whether this is good, bad or indifferent, and how I might change it if it's a negative, is above my pay grade.

More importantly 😉 the car looks like this:

20211214_215947.jpg

20211214_215735.jpg

I'm pleased with that. It's what I was going for. 

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Wing wire mk3: same design but using 2mm wire in place of 1.5mm and reducing length by 5mm, all in the name of strength. Cosmetically pretty much the same. It's nice that these can be made in just a few mins. If I need more strength I could go to 2.5mm or make some kind of brace but I like the clean look of two simple wires. 

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And having talked about the common chassis failing on another thread

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/100362-aluminium-vs-carbon-vs-stock-plastic-shock-towers-and-other-parts/&do=findComment&comment=893118

There goes mine. 😳

20211218_182339.jpg.564ce0b73335f800568de4ffd4163d1e.jpg

I've got a spare, albeit not with me, and will try to glue this too.

It was the kind of moment that's always going to break stuff. Into a low horizontal bar which is part of a solid garden table, from a good speed to a standstill in an inch all taken by the shock tower and this.

So I ask for forgiveness from the gods of Tamiya and Mr @sosidge who rolls his eyes once more and who feels a little pain himself every time plastic from that heralded factory in Japan cracks.

You see, for me Tamiya cars are from about 1986, when I was 10. And so when I drive one, I am 10. And we all know what 10 year old boys are like. Faster just is better. Jumps are great. And bigger ones are better. Fast passes of solid things are just a little bit too tempting but every now and then they will go wrong.

So I am sorry and I promise to be better in the future. Hangs head... 

But on the plus side this is why I bought the same cars for us both, chose a cheap and current common one and bought a spare kit (2 actually). So soon enough we will be back to full strength!

Book of Tamiya, Chapter 1, verse 1: "No Guts, No Glory" 

Merry Christmas, love and kisses, 

Buggydad and his boy (who points out that his dad did nearly all the crashing) 

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Back to developments though, having tried both the Egress and the Kyosho wheels, the extra 6mm offset on the Kyosho ones makes a good positive difference to handling. Significant change to tendency to grip roll. Now wider, lower and gripping like the proverbial to a blanket the car is/was flying. Perhaps a contributor to why I was ripping around the garden quite as I was. There was maybe just a little extra understeer under power though...

Wing wire mount mk3 is better but not the finished article. Notable that the wing itself has sustained no damage despite lots of wire bending. 

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13 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

And having talked about the common chassis failing on another thread

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/100362-aluminium-vs-carbon-vs-stock-plastic-shock-towers-and-other-parts/&do=findComment&comment=893118

There goes mine. 😳

20211218_182339.jpg.564ce0b73335f800568de4ffd4163d1e.jpg

I've got a spare, albeit not with me, and will try to glue this too.

It was the kind of moment that's always going to break stuff. Into a low horizontal bar which is part of a solid garden table, from a good speed to a standstill in an inch all taken by the shock tower and this.

So I ask for forgiveness from the gods of Tamiya and Mr @sosidge who rolls his eyes once more and who feels a little pain himself every time plastic from that heralded factory in Japan cracks.

You see, for me Tamiya cars are from about 1986, when I was 10. And so when I drive one, I am 10. And we all know what 10 year old boys are like. Faster just is better. Jumps are great. And bigger ones are better. Fast passes of solid things are just a little bit too tempting but every now and then they will go wrong.

So I am sorry and I promise to be better in the future. Hangs head... 

But on the plus side this is why I bought the same cars for us both, chose a cheap and current common one and bought a spare kit (2 actually). So soon enough we will be back to full strength!

Book of Tamiya, Chapter 1, verse 1: "No Guts, No Glory" 

Merry Christmas, love and kisses, 

Buggydad and his boy (who points out that his dad did nearly all the crashing) 

I wonder if alloy or the upgrade parts would help with that. The part the top arms and shock towers mount to spans that crack I think so maybe a tougher bit might have helped?
 

In all honesty though a hit like that will break something, I guess you just end up moving the failure point around 

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2 hours ago, Nobbi1977 said:

I wonder if alloy or the upgrade parts would help with that. The part the top arms and shock towers mount to spans that crack I think so maybe a tougher bit might have helped?
 

In all honesty though a hit like that will break something, I guess you just end up moving the failure point around 

Yeah it was a nasty, foolish hit. Guaranteed to break something.

I have the reinforced M parts pack which includes this part and I may fit it onto a new chassis. On the glued one though I am sticking with old bits. Orig part in this case is that very flexible plastic of the bumper and receiver cover. I can also see why this might be flexible by design, but that they chose to make the servo mount, for which flex can't be desirable, out of the same, and that they sell a stiffer version as a hop-up, opens this up to question.

Also, although this tower mount spans the crack, an impact to the shock tower will translate to a rotation around the top screw of the mount and on to a tension force in the bottom of the nose of the chassis, which would've contributed to the failure. If this is the main thing going on then that may explain flexible plastic there and a stronger/stiffer mount could worsen the situation. But I wonder what would improve it? Somewhere there's an example of someone bracing from the shock top mount back into the chassis alongside the servo - that's an option. Another is something in tension beneath the chassis nose but I can't see how to do it yet. 

I glued the break and have now rejoined the two chassis halves with glue and screws, in the hope that doing so adds a little more support to what will now be prone to failing again. Unfortunately I can't see a way to brace preventatively across the weak point without causing other problems. I was looking for somewhere suitable to run a long bolt through the front in the fore/aft direction but didn't find anywhere. Could in principle strap around the nose but I suspect difficult to do so with enough tension to make a difference. Could maybe fit a zip tie tight around this glued one but that would probably just be chucking everything at it rather than making a significant difference in its own right. 

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It had been discussed before, it seem that the lack of a bumper is a problem with the 03? (I don't have one, just a 02)

Or you can just get rid of useless stuff like tables, trees, etc... In your garden. 

 

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1 minute ago, alvinlwh said:

It had been discussed before, it seem that the lack of a bumper is a problem with the 03? (I don't have one, just a 02)

 

Depends where mounted, I think. Where it is mounted on the DT-03, A bigger bumper could even worsen the problem in some situations, if an in and upward force translated to any pull on the bottom of the chassis. Where I think a different bumper could help would be if it stretched back under the chassis to mount further back, behind or alongside the servo. My suspicion is that the failures come when the shock tower is hit, rather than any lower down parts. Or at least that's what I did to trigger what seems to be the classic point of failure.

But I think a little more height in bracing the tower backwards would be better, if one were redesigning the chassis.

It could be that the principle they've gone for by design is for sacrificial parts to flex or fail, being shock tower and tower mount, it's just that the chassis isn't strong enough at that point to guarantee that it isn't the bit to go. 

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Any bumper will help in some cases. No bumper will not help in any cases.

But as someone had pointed out a few days ago, Tamiya (at least the ones at this price point) are not really meant for hard ruthless bashing. Personally, I am getting a bit sick of having to buy (and wait) for even more parts before even starting a build for most standard kits that I am going to stop for a while for a rest on Tamiya after finishing my Christmas M-06. Cheap no longer seem cheap after all the essential hopups. 

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9 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Any bumper will help in some cases. No bumper will not help in any cases.

But as someone had pointed out a few days ago, Tamiya (at least the ones at this price point) are not really meant for hard ruthless bashing. Personally, I am getting a bit sick of having to buy (and wait) for even more parts before even starting a build for most standard kits that I am going to stop for a while for a rest on Tamiya after finishing my Christmas M-06. Cheap no longer seem cheap after all the essential hopups. 

Fair point. I don't think I'll ever be a serial builder of many kits though, much as I love the build and take an interest in the design etc. I'll mostly run, fix and modify these DT-03s for a while I think. I'll build, run and mess a bit with my XV-01 in a couple of months but it'll get much much gentler treatment and less frequent driving. Not sure where the Optima (I pre ordered an Optima Mid) will fit in in terms of use but it'll stay pretty stock I suspect. Maybe that'll then become the runner but I kind of doubt it. What I'm running needs cheap available fixes and will inevitably get modded. And three cars already feels like a lot. I know not compared with many on here but we're all different. Overall I'm very happy with DT-03s for us and I hope to reduce the frequency of breakages quite a lot. 

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Wing wire mk4:

20211221_171509.jpg

Now using 2.5mm wire and Egress mounts to attach to tower. Hopefully wire extending down to meet switch should share impact force that way rather than the wing applying mechanical advantage simply to bending the tower. But if that doesn't play out a mk5 will extend much lower. Or possibly even mount elsewhere, I do have a below tower option. Cosmetically it positions the wing as before but the hardware is tidier. 

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And wing mount mk5... 

20211230_194924.jpg

20211230_194909.jpg

Cheap part from a 1/8 scale Losi. Very soft plastic. Drilled wing holes to a very tight fit, aiming for it to pop off in a crash. Or could use clips. Position very close to where I've had it before. It's not sexy, so would be wire for the shelf, but I like the pronounced wing position and this should give really easily in any crash, so it should be a heap more practical. And I haven't got a shelf 😉

I could brace between the mounts with M3 bar but I don't think I'll need to. Or I could fit the brace that came with the parts but that requires the holes to be the right distance apart, which these aren't. 

Ignore the wonkiness. That should be an easy fix once I work out why.

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