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Snakehands

Hoarding multiple examples of the same new in box car...

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23 minutes ago, JeffSpicoli said:

my only point was if you're hoarding to hoard, I have nothing in common with you in any hobby.

The OP was talking about hoarders, not collectors.  To me there's a difference.

Some people just greedily buy up the supplies and we all know, in the end, they won't ever put them to use.  They'll end up at some estate sale in 20 years.   

I don't have a problem with whatever choices people make I'm not stupid enough to believe my comment on a forum will change them.

They have their opinion and I have mine and everyone can coexist.  

I agree with the earlier point that a boxed up model stashed in a closet for some future profit or just to hoard is useless when it could be making some kid happy.

I'll say it again b/c people always think if you say one thing you're blanket arguing against a category of people - hoarding is lame, collecting is cool.

 

 

Yep spot on imo. It's fine having 100 different R/c models with maybe 50-60 still nib (one of each). But when you have maybe 4,5 or 6 of the same model nib, it's just hoarding simple as. I know some Lego collecting friends like to have 2 sets of their favourites, one always NiB and another built for display. And I get that with R/C cars too, a runner, a shelfer and a NIB of their most favourite ones would be ideal in the perfect world. 

James.

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4 hours ago, simalarion said:

You missed my point, but i do not want to drag politics in on this forum.But Accept goes both ways and extreme groups will always shout at each other. And as far tree huggers and vegan goes i do not see they hurting any one, they did never steal my elk Burger.

Sure, no politics, after you had brought up the Trump thing. So moving on to non politics... 

I don't suppose you have such vegans in Norway? Lucky you! 

Or such tree huggers? 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-insulate-britain-protesters-block-25166993

Sure, they are not hurting anyone by blocking ambulances. 

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Please as mentioned i want to dropp Politic duscussion on this forum, and you are stil missing my point either way. Those you link to clearly do not have accept/respect going both ways and are Not protesting according to law and order (if they block roads etc etc), if not you need to go to jail. If a protest and discussion can be done in civil manner under law and order i do not see anything wrong with it, thats my point. Please just dropp this now, im sorry that i quoted you in the first place, i just did not see your point going anywhere in this post

 

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On 12/13/2021 at 8:30 AM, Blista said:

People are free to do as they please, in my opinion. 

Of course people can do what they like, it's just a shame that it means hobbyists lose out because they can't find a kit or are priced out.

I'm finding this constant hoarding and buying up of anything popular pretty frustrating. Just about every fad/craze/interest or hobby my kids get in to these days leads to frustration because people immediately buy all the stock and sell at inflated prices. They simply get prices out and upset that it's so hard to get stuff. More of a problem here in Oz than lots of other places because we often deal with limited stock and supply chain speeds and cost. 

The manufacturers are partly to blame too. For instance, Lego keep saying they don't want scalpers getting their kits. Then why do they let buyers purchase 10 of each item?

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Yes, I think there's a difference between collecting for the hobby and joy if it, and then collecting just to flip on eBay when the price is right. The former is a way to enjoy, the later seems to stopping other people enjoying things just to make cash. When does collecting become hoarding? I guess that's personal.

Let's be honest, whilst it's nice to have cool Tamiya cars, most kids are actually going to want a TRAXXXASS EXXXTREEEME MAXXXXX YOLO 3000* then they are going to want a grasshopper, so I think they are more likely to be depriving other collectors.

I just think it's a little sad that cars never get built, as they become too valuable to actually be used. It reminds me of the sale of the first press BNIB Super Mario Bros for an absurd price, and yes, if you owned that, why would you ever open it, but then if you are never going to open it, then why own it? I guess with RC its the problem of a hobby where the fun is in the building, and the potential to damage when you do run. Every step takes away from the value. 

*probably not a real car, but if it does get released, you'll know where they took the idea from.

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Hoarding = collecting. Collecting = hoarding. There's no fundamental difference.

Just because you don't understand why someone is doing something, or you have a different opinion of what that person should be doing with their toys, doesn't mean that what they are doing doesn't give them the same pleasure as you get from your interpretation of the hobby.

7 hours ago, InsaneJim69 said:

It's fine having 100 different R/c models with maybe 50-60 still nib (one of each).

So if a collector owns 50 models and they are all NIB but all different, it's ok, but if they are all the same then 49 poor children are missing out? 

There's no difference - hoarding is just another word for collecting. It's the word given to collectors by people who "can't understand" why someone would collect something in a particular way. (there's a guy near me whose garden is full of 'junk'. Most people would call him a hoarder. If you ask him, he's a collector of mechanical salvage... There's no difference.)

And the argument that keeping things in boxes is preventing someone else from enjoying something is also silly. By giving those boxed models to someone else, you remove the enjoyment from the person who kept it in the box. So whose enjoyment is more important?

Keeping something pristine, and not using it for "what it was made for" is not limited to RC - you won't find many collectors of porcelain using it for its "intended purpose", but apparently it's fine for them.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are obviously people who only buy to resell later at higher prices, but I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about collectors whose idea of collecting and enjoyment is different to yours, mine, or whosever. 

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25 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

I guess with RC its the problem of a hobby where the fun is in the building, and the potential to damage when you do run

Again, this is only your idea of where the fun is. It's probably the most prevalent idea of where the fun is, too, but for some people, the fun might come in other ways that you don't experience. 

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Funny we are even talking about (relatively) cheap toy cars while in the real world, there are collectors/hoarders of real super cars that cost millions that buy them straight from the factory and never drive them once, and then auctioning them many years later at a far higher price. They too are denying common people a chance and the joy of owning a limited run super car.

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I spent a number of years working for an organisation that is a big player in the collector coin market

During that time we conducted some research into the psychology of collecting, to better understand the mindset and motivations. Buying patterns made it pretty clear that there were different behaviours at work, so it helped us to develop appropriate products and to stop us communicating to everyone in the same way. What we always understood though is that there is room for everyone

A lot of what is being thrown around in this thread is evidence of different types of collector mindset. It's been a few years since I moved on, so this is by no means complete (ha!), but from memory there were things like:

Enthusiast: into a theme (eg royalty, or military) and will buy items that expand that theme, if the quality and price is right. Will probably display the items around their home, as a visible display of their personality and interests. So maybe you're a buggy guy, or a monster truck maniac, or you love Porsches. You might be loving the 911 on a basic TT02 as it sits well alongside your Buragos, mugs, metal signage and baseball caps, or a long distance driver who wants the toppest endest hauler you can afford. Enjoy! You'll probably keep the box too, either for display or to protect some sort of resale value

Loyalist: will buy everything we make within their set budget capabilities, because they love the brand. You'll buy every new buggy and re-release. Or you want every numerical variant of the TA line. Which version you get (standard, R, Pro, RR, MS etc) will depend on your budget. You'll want all your tyres, tools and oils to be Tamiya too.

Completer: if we release a product that has a series of coins in it, send a folder with the first one. The completer can't bear to see gaps in something, so will buy all the remaining coins to make sure the folder is full. You MUST have every version of the Wild Willy, or every kit ever sold on the M03 platform. Your TD4 must have EVERY hop up, etc

Protector: a sub section of any of the three above, but normally focused on the higher end products (eg gold or silver) and will always box them away or vault them for safekeeping. Does not display them. Their passion is hidden / protected until they occasionally get everything out and take a good look at it, getting a short term hit of endorphins from the experience. So you just love the beauty of the thing, and want to protect it. Maybe it just applies to the OGs, or the re:res with their beautiful box art, especially things like the Avante, 30th Anniversary 934, Buggy Champ etc with those gorgeous blister packs.

We also definitely had people who crossed the segments. Would buy a silver for display and a gold to protect, or a gold 5oz for themselves and four 1ozs to put away for the future, or the grandkids. We didn't have hoarders as such, partly because of the costs involved but also because I think hoarding is a different mindset again. It has different connotations, often related to volume of possessions outweighing physical or mental capacity to cope, and crossing the line from gathering things together to never being able to let anything go. 

I'm sure we all recognise at least one, if not more, of those behaviours in our relationship with Tamiya. The key thing is, there is room for everyone.

None of this is to be confused with Traders, those particular individuals who get in early to buy and then sell on later (sometimes almost immediately) for a profit. They're an unfortunate occurence in virtually every market that involves some degree of scarcity. Life goes on. Coins, records, Playstation 5s....last year, even toilet roll qualified! I've had various hobbies over the years, most of which have come and gone, but the one that has been with me since I was 8 years old is music, particularly vinyl records. So these 'flippers' really pain me once or twice a year around Record Store Day. On the one hand you could say it's the industry's fault for creating this short-focused frenzy of limited edition sales, but on the flip side (ha!) it's an initiative that has revitalised a struggling industry and gives some old school bricks and mortar high street retailers a much needed shot in the arm. It's just the world we live in, and I find it helps to take a breath and remember that it's just a limited edition bit of plastic.

Personally, from all the comments above, I'm most down with the one built, one boxed mindset. This comes from memories of childhood, when we didn't have much but mum and dad were great at buying me toy cars to play with, from Matchbox to Corgi to Burago. I really wish they had bough two James Bond DB5s, or his Lotus Esprit, or Batmobiles, and had kept one boxed and then let me play with the other endlessly to the point where all the fireable missiles and henchmen were lost and everything was scratched. I would LOVE to have one to display now. But there are very few who get to have that level of foresight. In my Tamiya world, this mostly applies to those kits where the packaging is beautiful (see above), so there is joy to be had in both the built kit and the unbroken box. Less so a TT02-R or M07 in its generic little dark shoebox. But that's just me. 

PS: never Google Freud's theories about collectors. Especially around lunch time. Just don't do it....

 

 

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48 minutes ago, rich_f said:

Again, this is only your idea of where the fun is. It's probably the most prevalent idea of where the fun is, too, but for some people, the fun might come in other ways that you don't experience. 

Sorry, what I meant was in general RC is a hobby where in general there is fun in making the product, as well as having it on a shelf and running it. 

If they were premade, I guess some would still be in the box - but there wouldn't be that thing of "I want to make it, but I know if I make it I will decrease the value of it, and as it's rare I'll make the re-re instead" ensuring that the originals are never built. Which in way makes sense, but also means that the actual product will then never get used to its full potential (i.e. made and perhaps run) as to use it at its full potential is to reduce that same potential for someone else, a potential that then becomes increasingly unlikely it will ever get realised.

I worked at museums for a number of years, and I would say this: most museums try to  get objects they can display, learn from, use, and try to have lots of different types of examples, more than just lots of the same thing, However, each to their own, and if someone gets real value from 30 boxes of Brusers that will never get opened in a loft, then who am I to judge? That's how they enjoy it. 

Out of interested, when watching Toy Story 2 - how many of you were hoping Woody stayed with the Round Up gang? :D

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I'm sorry. I've been hoarding 4 chassis of FAV and Wild One. I've been wanting to restore at least 2 chassis out of all the parts I hoarded. 

hylCeHr.jpg

Lol... I know you guys mean multiple NIB stuff, not an old project. (or do you?)  

When I was younger (and poorer), I would see old people just buying up stuff.  When I couldn't even afford one, they'd build the same stuff over and over.  Sometimes they don't even build. They just keep boxes in the closet. That seemed like a big sin.  Things are meant to be driven!  

Now that I am approaching the age 50, I have some disposable income. But not enough time. I don't buy the same stuff. And I stopped buying for the time being. I have enough. 

The HotShot was the oldest 4WD I admired. I'm happy with the vintage I have. I have a 2WD Fox, but I liked the new Novafox's sway bar better, so it's a hybrid Fox. Wild Willy 1 and 2 are yet another 2WDs that are completely different. I had so much fun with a FAV.  The Blackfoot is not the same as the Frog and the Brat, even though they use the same chassis....etc, etc. They are different, aren't they?   

Consider my wife's view. To her, it's ALL the same stuff and I'm a hoarder.  I don't deny because I can understand her views too.  She's got bags and shoes like every other women.  They all look about the same to me. But I never asked why she couldn't be happy with a couple pairs of shoes. There are some bags she won't even use. Why buy it if she's just going to worship it?  By the same token, why couldn't I be happy with a couple of RC cars? 

The Dynahead that got delivered few months ago, is still in the plastic wrap (one and only NIB). Not getting to it is killing me. To my younger self, that's a crime!  I should build it as soon as possible. It's making me anxious. But should I be?  Do I owe my time to the toy I bought?  

I think it's all in the perspective.  To me, building 3 dozen RC cars was time well spent. That's THE definition of a good hobby. To my wife, they are the same old plastic junk her husband buys.  She is supportive, like, "yes, white looks okay, but not red on that one."  But she couldn't remember which one it was after a day.  She would notice if they all look the same, but it wouldn't make much difference anyway.  

If some dude wants to buy the same 1000 NIB kits and play Minecraft with them in real life?  Good for him. Whatever tickles his fancy. They are his properties. He can put one in a big bong and smoke it for all I care. (it'd be bad for health, though)  He could be helping us.  The more kits sold, the cheaper Tamiya can make them. (The Falcon is probably not being released for that reason...not enough people willing to buy.)  Even if it's all sold out in a week, if the hoarder increased number of units sold, there is greater chance of re-producing it in the future.  

Do I understand why people collect stamps, coins, porcelain dolls, or nuka cola bottle caps? I haven't the foggiest as to why.

oPEIvkQ.jpg

Would they argue like, "why do people hoard 1958 porcelain Jane?"...Probably. 

But I'll always take the easy way out; whatever floats your boat, you should do it.  I, for one, wouldn't say it's not fair.  If you paid your hard-earned money for it, it's fair.  If you want to hold onto 100 DT02s until they becomes $700 each, that's your money to burn.  

What if the hoarder was dirt poor?  I knew a lady who barely had one meal a day when she was growing up. In her youth, she had a miscarriage, probably due to malnutrition and overwork.  At age 70, she hoarded hundreds of bottles, jars, tins of decade-expired biscuits, all her clothes from her 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. She even had 3 new sofas stacked up on top of each other (she couldn't sit on them, which defeats the purpose of having sofas... but hey, why shouldn't she hoard? She can finally afford them.)  What if a poor kid saw rich kids playing with Wild Ones when he couldn't even eat 3 square meals?  If he wants to buy a dozen now?  I'd say I'm happy for him, even though to my younger self, things like that looked silly and unfair. I don't want to say that even to an actual hoarder. (My views are different from my younger years. But that just means that I'm getting old, especially since I've met all kinds of good people over the years, including a couple of hoarders.)  

 

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11 minutes ago, Juggular said:

I'm sorry. I've been hoarding 4 chassis of FAV and Wild One. I've been wanting to restore at least 2 chassis out of all the parts I hoarded. 

 

Too late, we've sent the mob with flaming torches to your house.

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The one thing that comes out of this, is that there a bunch of miserable whingers, who dont like other people having an opinion that differs to theirs.

The most laughable part of it, is they are bemoaning the fact people collect and enjoy their hobby, but have forgotten the fact that they are doing it on a hobby forum. Hypocritcal or what.

Perhaps they should quit the club and do something else.

J

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1 minute ago, junkmunki said:

The one thing that comes out of this, is that there a bunch of miserable whingers, who dont like other people having an opinion that differs to theirs.

The most laughable part of it, is they are bemoaning the fact people collect and enjoy their hobby, but have forgotten the fact that they are doing it on a hobby forum. Hypocritcal or what.

Perhaps they should quit the club and do something else.

J

I think most people are pretty balanced. Telling people their actions are laughable, they are hypocrites and they should quit TC doesn't exactly put you in the "not liking people who have different opinions to them" pile perhaps.

One could also say it's a forum about making and racing toy cars, and that they are bemoaning people simply collecting sealed boxes to the detriment of people that would enjoy making and racing said cars, especially when the limited number available or the price make it hard for everyone to take part. 

At the same time, Tamiya could just stop with the limited numbers, and re release everything. Job done

 

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1 minute ago, Nikko85 said:

I think most people are pretty balanced. Telling people their actions are laughable, they are hypocrites and they should quit TC doesn't exactly put you in the "not liking people who have different opinions to them" pile perhaps.

One could also say it's a forum about making and racing toy cars, and that they are bemoaning people simply collecting sealed boxes to the detriment of people that would enjoy making and racing said cars, especially when the limited number available or the price make it hard for everyone to take part. 

At the same time, Tamiya could just stop with the limited numbers, and re release everything. Job done

 

Its called free speech and having an opinion. Its why we dont live in a dictatorship.

I really couldn't care what other people in the hobby do, its up to them, but when someone comes on here and starts ranting that i am selfish, or wrong in what i do, then it starts to matter to me.

J

J

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9 minutes ago, junkmunki said:

Its called free speech and having an opinion. Its why we dont live in a dictatorship.

I really couldn't care what other people in the hobby do, its up to them, but when someone comes on here and starts ranting that i am selfish, or wrong in what i do, then it starts to matter to me.

J

J

In all fairness, I'm not the one suggestion someone should quit a forum because their opinions differs to mine. Free speech and opinions works both ways. You can't complain that people are "miserable whingers, who don't like other people having an opinion that differs to theirs" and  defer to free speech, then at the same time be outraged that people might express an opinion at odds with your own.

Edit: however there is nothing more pointless and less edifying than a forum argument, especially about something like toy cars. Nothing is conveyed online with any of a nuance, humour or subtlety that makes us sound like anything other than jerks - so I'll leave it there. It's Christmas after all! 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

In all fairness, I'm not the one suggestion someone should quit a forum because their opinions differs to mine. Free speech and opinions works both ways. You can't complain that people are "miserable whingers, who don't like other people having an opinion that differs to theirs" and  defer to free speech, then at the same time be outraged that people might express an opinion at odds with your own.

Edit: however there is nothing more pointless and less edifying than a forum argument, especially about something like toy cars. Nothing is conveyed online with any of a nuance, humour or subtlety that makes us sound like anything other than jerks - so I'll leave it there. It's Christmas after all! 

 

 

 

Wow, way to twist it round.

I never suggested anyone to leave because they didn't like my opinion, if you read what i actually said, i suggested they left if the didn't like the hobby.

And as for being 'outraged' about people having opinions that differ from mine, i couldn't care less what your opinions are, just dont judge me on how i enjoy the hobby.

Happy Christmas.

J

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On 12/15/2021 at 11:41 AM, junkmunki said:

Wow, way to twist it round.

I never suggested anyone to leave because they didn't like my opinion, if you read what i actually said, i suggested they left if the didn't like the hobby.

And as for being 'outraged' about people having opinions that differ from mine, i couldn't care less what your opinions are, just dont judge me on how i enjoy the hobby.

Happy Christmas.

J

Not twisted at all. This is what you said ''Perhaps they should quit the club and do something else.'' Obviously you were talking about this (Tamiya) club (forum). 

 

Anyway, hoarding is lame as...

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6 minutes ago, Snakehands said:

Not twisted at all. This is what you said ''Perhaps they should quit the club and do something else.'' Obviously you were talking about this (Tamiya) club (forum). 

 

Anyway, hoarding is lame as...

Perhaps if you didn't have snakes for hands you could collect more boxes? :D

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All I think of when I hear a discussion like this and people complaining about what others are doing in their life...

Jealousy

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41 minutes ago, kwkenuf said:

All I think of when I hear a discussion like this and people complaining about what others are doing in their life...

Jealousy

LOL typical investor/hoarder/bully/showoff mentality.

"Neener neener, I've got something you don't, look at me and be jealous"

Yeah, we're not jealous.

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I def take a diff stance against parts.   But being reasonable.  Buying out the parts of a car from every supplier is hoarding.  Grabbing extra parts here and there for running vehicles is different.  It's all nuance.  We see this in the BMX scene where these old guys with tons of cash just stash parts for resale and mark up.

The people who hoard are those who just vacuum up kits and parts and stash them in a room and pay no mind to them unless there's a profit to be made or just being a hoarder.

Tamiya doesn't make it easy on the true enthusiasts who want to rebuild older cars and fix older cars for restoration.

That's why when I see these YouTube knobs use the phrase "rere" and all that, I don't pay know attention to that stuff, a BRAT to me is a BRAT, yes I know there are minor differences but I don't care.  If you want to look down on a re-release as inferior that's your choice.  A "re-re" makes me just as happy as the original would.

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Probably not a great help but ..

Each to their own!

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2 minutes ago, svenb said:

Probably not a great help but ..

Each to their own!

Yep.

My dad owns nothing.  He's got a watch from his dad. He's got a flip phone. He worked until age 80. He never even owned a car. (He paid for my mom's car, and she drives him around, so that's no loss to him.)  When I was a teen in the 1980s, my Grasshopper with a radio, 12 AA batteries (8 for transmitter, 4 for receiver), charger, and several NiCd batteries were a whole lot of junk to him.  He would say, "who do you take after to collect a mountain of stuff like that?"  I'm afraid if we go by his definition, everybody in TC would be a hoarder.   

Obviously, I'm a different person, I have no reason to have live like a monk. I'll do what I like. That's why I also say, each to his own. 

 

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