Aluminium vs carbon vs stock plastic (shock towers and other parts)

[BuggyDad]

I've broken front and rear shock towers on my DT-03 so I'm on the lookout for a way to improve resilience to crashes here, but I think the question applies similarly to other parts. Not massively driven by how they look, although I suppose it does matter.

There's:

- cheap aluminium (Jazrider, say £10 each posted with some other things) 

- more expensive aluminium (GPM, say 50% more money)

- Tamiya carbon, near enough same price as GPM alu. 

- Plastic ones do pop up for less but if bought as a sprue they cost as much as some of the above.  

With similar enough cost (which surprises me) I think I'm just interested to know which is the least likely to break in a crash. 

What do you tend to go for? 

Are the Jaz ones rubbish? I read somewhere that cheaper aluminium parts are not equal, and perhaps not worth having/too soft, but these look pretty chunky front to back.

I know carbon can be very tough, but tougher than aluminium in this application? I don't think I care about weight or stiffness, and only marginally about appearance. 

I'm aware of the idea that you're just passing the impact along to the next part, and I'm aiming for a general strength improvement, but in this case I think the vulnerability of the towers is such that it makes sense they're changed. I've already got but not fitted reinforced M parts, which include the damper stay mounts which go between towers and chassis.

[Jonathon Gillham]

All my 10th scale cars have carbon fibre shock towers rather than plastic or aluminium (these are race kits, I don't upgrade rere or basic chassis, except that one time where I had enough parts to build a second one, and even the second one has the carbon hop up shock towers). They are incredibly strong with very little flex (but my son has broken front and rear ones on his Ae B6, so they're not strong enough for an 8yo).

My 8th scale cars have aluminium which I'm guessing must be the strongest if its designed properly and made of quality alloy. I have both 8th and 10th scale Hot Bodies cars and the 10th has carbon, 8th alloy, so there must be something in it.

I would stay away from the cheap alloy though as it will most likely bend pretty easily. Bent can be worse than broken as unless its obvious you may not be able to find why the car doesnt handle properly. Get the Tamiya carbon as it will be good quality carbon fibre (as that isn't created equal either, some is good like you'd get from Tamiya or Fibrelyte etc, other stuff is cheap and no better than plastic).

I have found on the TT02B the rubbery shock towers are actually pretty good as they don't break. So it really depends on what you are wanting to achieve, durability with rubbery towers that don't perform well, or better performance with the potential to break?

[M 800STD]

Racers use different materials due to their characteristics, flex.

I don't know what parts you are looking at, but design will play a major part in this, ie thickness.

FRP is strong enough for normal use, not skateboard ramps.

Ally is also suitable.

As the ally parts are not cast they will bend in a very heavy impact.

So I would opt for ally.

[Willy iine]

Depending on how much the upgrades cost, it might make more sense to just get a different car.. (?)

And use your current car for lighter duty driving..

[Nicadraus]

Like @Jonathon Gillham I have also upgraded my shock towers to carbon fiber (and some important parts too). It's lighter than aluminum and stronger in some ways during impact of crashes because it flexes which absorbs shock better than aluminum. Although some parts (that don't need flexing) are of course better in aluminum than plastic/carbon reinforced plastic.

[markbt73]

Go with carbon fiber. Aluminum towers will bend, and after you bend them back a few times they can crack. I have carbon chassis and shock towers for RC10s that are nearly 30 years old and still fine. The only way you'll break them is if a real car runs over it.

[BuggyDad]

On closer inspection, it looks like the Tamiya carbon ones from Plaza Japan are near enough as cheap as any other option.

My hesitation was down to wondering whether carbon was meant for stiffness and strength-to-weight but at the expense of impact resistance. In this case I don't seek "performance", rather just toughness.

I think I'll get the carbon ones. They end up about £10 an end.

Now, what else do I want from Plaza Japan? 

[sosidge]

6 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Depending on how much the upgrades cost, it might make more sense to just get a different car.. (?)

And use your current car for lighter duty driving..

I agree, it seems like BuggyDad's cars have broken more often than all the other Tamiyaclub buggies put together!

Tamiya's aren't built for heavy bashing, they're built for gentle fun with slow motors.

Sounds like you and your son are pushing them harder than they are built for. Arrma and Traxxas are the two brands that are well known for putting out tanks that will cope with anything.

[Grumpy pants]

23 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

On closer inspection, it looks like the Tamiya carbon ones from Plaza Japan are near enough as cheap as any other option.

My hesitation was down to wondering whether carbon was meant for stiffness and strength-to-weight but at the expense of impact resistance. In this case I don't seek "performance", rather just toughness.

I think I'll get the carbon ones. They end up about £10 an end.

Now, what else do I want from Plaza Japan? 

This is an interesting thread, I guess it is all about finding an alternative shock tower that is stronger than stock but not so strong it transfers all the load and in the process breaks a more significant part.

I’m pretty sure I’ve read that the front of the chassis is a weak point on the DT03.

[BuggyDad]

37 minutes ago, Grumpy pants said:

This is an interesting thread, I guess it is all about finding an alternative shock tower that is stronger than stock but not so strong it transfers all the load and in the process breaks a more significant part.

I’m pretty sure I’ve read that the front of the chassis is a weak point on the DT03.

Yeah I've read that too but I'm not sure specifically where the weakness lies.

[Grumpy pants]

6 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Yeah I've read that too but I'm not sure specifically where the weakness lies.

I think it is at the front just behind where the chassis halves meet. 

I’m not 100% on this.

[BuggyDad]

1 hour ago, sosidge said:

I agree, it seems like BuggyDad's cars have broken more often than all the other Tamiyaclub buggies put together!

Tamiya's aren't built for heavy bashing, they're built for gentle fun with slow motors.

Sounds like you and your son are pushing them harder than they are built for. Arrma and Traxxas are the two brands that are well known for putting out tanks that will cope with anything.

I suspect it might be my over exuberance and lack of talent that's to blame rather than a genuinely different application. But we love them and we're having fun, which is the main thing. And I'm quite enjoying the tinkering and improving (or not). So we'll stick with these. Each break has thus far been a cheap fix. It might also come across worse than reality, I could be guilty of over-sharing on here as I make my way into this hobby. 

Actually, looking back at our breaks in 2 DT-03s in 2 months, there's not much I can blame on the choice of chassis/car:

1 front and 1 rear shock tower - crashes

2 front axles bent - believe this is common with the long Aqroshot ones. 

2 or 3 wheels cracked. 

Water and dust ingress to motors and ESC, fixed easily it turned out. Hopefully now protected a little better. A success I think. Hindsight would probably fit different units, but these aren't Tamiya. 

Early failures of a BL motor and Hobbywing ESC with no further issues. Unexplained. Happy to call it a one-off. A Tamiya ESC hit trouble with a brushless motor but some questions around compatibility and I haven't re tested it but suspect it's still good with brushed. 

Damage from inappropriate use of threadlock - total rookie error. 

😉

[BuggyDad]

Back in the day I had a Falcon. With these motors I'd have snapped that on a daily basis! I can still remember in detail the design of how the front section bolted to the bathtub, and I last saw that when I was about 13! My theory then was "if you can't fix it with araldite, you aren't using enough". 😅

[nowinaminute]

From my own DT-03 experience, I found with the stock ones, one unlucky roll-over on a hard surface could break them into pieces. I might be paranoid but I could swear that grey plastic doesn't have much give as the front end snapped off my DT-03, too. Admittedly it was after a tumble but, I haven't had that kind of thing happen to any other Tamiya and they have all suffered similar incidents plenty of times. 

Since fitting carbon ones, I haven't had any issues. They seem to be substantially more durable. 

I would expect alloy to be stronger still in terms of not snapping or cracking but as always with alloy, it has a tendency to bend and stay bent. I prefer to leave alloy for small, dense parts like uprights/knuckles etc.

[alvinlwh]

2 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Now, what else do I want from Plaza Japan? 

Make sure you answer that question thoroughly coz god knows how much money I had wasted on postage when I realised I needed something else a day or two later and have to place another order. 

[BuggyDad]

1 hour ago, Grumpy pants said:

I think it is at the front just behind where the chassis halves meet. 

I’m not 100% on this.

On a search although I see reference to it being regarded as weaker than the DT-02 the net isn't flooded with specific examples of these chassis breaking. An example went below the damper stay, here:

I wonder whether it would help to fully strip the chassis to its two halves and inspect the scope for a couple of bolts right through it perpendicular to the common break, so presumably front to back. Also to glue the two halves together on reassembly along the whole length of the chassis might help with strength generally, but not much with this problem.

I won't mod my chassis unless it breaks but I think there are other mods one could try. If there's any requirement for bracing laterally then the aqroshot front body mount points could be used or perhaps a low profile servo could allow room for a bracing bar above.

[BuggyDad]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Make sure you answer that question thoroughly coz god knows how much money I had wasted on postage when I realised I needed something else a day or two later and have to place another order. 

Looks like great value but I find it relatively difficult to just browse the available suitable bits. Lightweight gear shafts added for the price of a packet of custard creams and turnbuckles for boyo's car for less than UK 2nd hand value... 

[alvinlwh]

18 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Looks like great value but I find it relatively difficult to just browse the available suitable bits. 

Just a tip: Their search function works better on phone/mobile site than on a computer. 

[BuggyDad]

19 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Just a tip: Their search function works better on phone/mobile site than on a computer. 

Trouble is, I will only know what to search for the day after I place the order. 😁

[alvinlwh]

44 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Trouble is, I will only know what to search for the day after I place the order. 😁

Ah yes, I have that same problem too, 2 orders within 5 days and both arriving at the same time. 

[BuggyDad]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Ah yes, I have that same problem too, 2 orders within 5 days and both arriving at the same time. 

Ah. Is that diff putty? Maybe I need that 😜

[alvinlwh]

50 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Ah. Is that diff putty? Maybe I need that 😜

Search for 42247. 

[alvinlwh]

22 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

Trouble is, I will only know what to search for the day after I place the order. 😁

Just placed another order yesterday as I forgot I cannot use 53791 (ordered 2 weeks ago) without 53790. Really getting sick of having to buy an upgrade so that I can use an upgrade.