Best Tamiya RC for running on (unkept) grass?

[Pearcy 7]

Hi there,

 

As I would imagine with a lot of you guys on here I used to spend my Saturday mornings as a lad getting a bus into town and then gazing at the Tamiya demo vids in Beatie's, although alas I couldn't afford one back then...

 

Now many years later I have 2x son's (9 and 11) and have just bought the older one an FTX Tracer MT for xmas, which he likes. This is now the perfect excuse, err I mean reason to buy something for myself to use to go have some fun with him.

 

We live opposite some national trust land that people walk on, dog walkers etc. It is a large wide copse and runs for about a mile. There are some 'grass paths' that are maintained/mowed by the council, with the parts in the middle containing large tufts of weeds / bracken etc. A couple of times a year they gate portions off and put sheep in which then makes the grass short, at least for a period of time.

 

Now I know grass isn't ideal for majority of RC's unless it's short / mowed but that said my lads FTX Tracer MT copes surprisingly well on the mowed paths. So the question is, given what's right on my doorstep is where it would get used the most, which RC car would work 'best' on that sort of terrain? - I have tried looking at YouTube and the various channels, but majority of the running seems to be on tarmac, gravel, parks with short grass, I guess for obvious reasons.

 

Now, what I would 'like' I think is Tamiya due to the boyhood dream. - Fully realise that the likes of Traxxas, Arrma etc. are much more capable these days wit ;arge sca;e brushless etc., but I don't think I'll be into major bashing. I'm a petrol head (have a Lotus etc.) and tend to be fairly mechanically sympathetic. I just want something I think RWD, to power slide around, do the odd wheelie and small jumps. It's just the challenge of the unkept grass to factor in...

So, if the terrain was 'kinder' I think I would like something like a DT-03 Racing fighter with a few hop ups, but with the long grass guessing it wpuld only stand a chance with some larger Blitzer wheels and tyres? Mayne a Blacfoot would be better suited? (not massively keen on the idea of a lunchbox / pumpkin)

 

-Why is it so difficult to find ride heights for RC's listed?!! - although lower than a Blackfoot, would a Mad Bull cope given the truck wheels?

 

Say if I decided to build a Tamiya Black Foot, with either a Torque Tuned or a mild brushless motor (obviously fitting steel bearings, transmission brace and likely a MIP ball diff) what's the actual ground clearance on those? is anyone that has one able to measure it? / comment?

Thanks!

[Pearcy 7]

Here are a few pics to give you some idea of the 'copse' in question.

That's where I feel I would use it the most. Not to say that if I had more than 1 RC I would likely take something like a DT-03 down the park in a rucksack now and again.

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

I think that a monster truck is your real option for what you want to do. The Blackfoot should be fine on that (I have a Monster beetle and it would handle that ok). They need ball bearings and I have the MIP ball diff but there are other options such as transmission braces. The MIP diff works, I don't know about the other options though as I haven't tried them.

The Monster Beetle tyres are probably better as they have the little spikes as well as the chevrons, the BF may just spin in the grass.

The other option would be the newer WT01 (I think) which is the most current of the monster trucks. I hear they are pretty bulletproof, but the ORV has been since the diff was done.

For the motor a 13.5T brushless would probably be a good starting point. In a big space like that a torque tuned will seem painfully slow. Brushless is better since they are mor efficient and have more torque. 17.5T will be slow as you can't gear high enough, 13.5T should be ok, 10.5T may be better though. The key is matching the motor and gear ratio, someone else can probably help out here.

Leftfield (and probably impractical at best, impossible at worst) but Tamiya used to make 8th scale, the TRF801 and TRF801XT. The XT is a truggy which would be ideal. They are nitro though, and probably impossible to find, but you never know, a secondhand one may pop up and its possible to convert to electric. A truggy would be ideal for that area.

[JennyMo 3526]

If you're going to run on grass like that, I'd suggest you really need tyres with an O/D of at least 120mm or around 4.7-5.0" - anything less and you're going to start bellying out...

You could always buy a buggy (DF-03 or similar chassis) and fit some aftermarket wheels & tyres (most run 12mm hexes these days) - this is what I did with my nephew's Rising Fighter for example - and with a faster motor as Jonathon suggests above, you'll probably make up for any performance shortfall in running a larger diameter wheel/tyre combo.

Jx

 

 

[mtbkym01 4008]

Agree with @Jonathon Gillham here, a Blackfoot/Monster Beetle with the required transmission mods will give you the nostalgia of the promo vids from the 80’s and the ability to (sort of) cope with that terrain. Good luck with your research and keep us informed  

**edit something to keep in mind running in the grass will be motor temps, for both whatever you end up with and your sons truck, best to check every 5 mins or so. With modern batteries at large capacity, run times are much longer than we had back in the day and it’s quite easy to burn out electronics 

[OoALEJOoO 3127]

There are two ways to tackle grass:

• Float on top of the grass, somewhat like how snowshoes work. This will lend itself to high-speed bashing on top of grass. You will need a relatively light car with tires having large contact area. Buggies with big tires, such as the Monster Beetle and/or monster trucks being recommended on the above posts will fit into this category. The cars would be fun to go fast on both grass and tarmac.

• Crush the grass and get traction on the ground or compacted grass below. You will need a heavier car with any type of large tire. Thick tires will make it compact the grass below it, while thinner tires will make it bend the grass and run more towards the ground. These will tend to require more torque and is more suited for low-speed running with higher gear-ratio cars such as trail vehicles. With a heavy trail car you can tackle pretty much any surface, grass, tarmac, dirt, slopes, rocks, etc. They are quite fun but not fast, the fun comes from trying to conquer obstacles and terrain. You could run it in the dirt roads/mud that likely lead to the grass patch and surrounding area. Examples of this would be a CC-02, CR-01, G6-01TR, ideally fitted with weighted bead-lock wheels.

Maybe get both!

[markbt73 5316]

Another vote for Monster Beetle. Those tires work really well on grass, and the ground clearance (which I'd estimate at 40mm or so) helps a lot. I haven't tried the new MIP diff yet myself, but I've heard good things, and I can tell you the rest of the chassis is tough as nails.

That little Heavy Dump truck might be a good one, too. Similar tire tread, only smaller, with the addition of 4WD to help pull it through the grass.

[TurnipJF 9192]

I have a couple of cars at home that work well on terrain such as yours. I shall measure the ground clearances this evening and post them up here.

[Grumpy pants 4485]

WT01 chassis everyday for kids, low maintenance, ground clearance and almost bullet proof 👍

[Ministrone 1455]

10 hours ago, Pearcy said:

I'm a petrol head (have a Lotus etc.)

Yet another Lotus owner on the forum. What is it about us fans of small plastic toy cars that also draws us to Tamiya RC models?😀

[Nobbi1977 1793]

1 hour ago, Grumpy pants said:

WT01 chassis everyday for kids, low maintenance, ground clearance and almost bullet proof 👍

I would have said the same thing. Needs the long shocks and shock tower mod to be fantastic though. 

[Badcrumble 4204]

51 minutes ago, Nobbi1977 said:

I would have said the same thing. Needs the long shocks and shock tower mod to be fantastic though. 

Me too. 

I'm just about to take one of our Dual Hunters for a spin. Plan to put pics in the 'today' thread later. 

Pretty sure the tyres are the same as the Blackfoot. Not as easy to find as a Blackfoot to purchase. The Blackfoot gearbox can also be assisted with some simple plates from @Xeostar

[Dakratfink 967]

The Kinghead/King Yellow G6-01 may not be everyone’s top choice, but I think mine is brilliant on unkept grass. 6WD and balloon tires it manages to float over some grass and and dig in to others.It take bumps and small jumps and stays stable even with friction shocks. 
With the 27T 540 silver can it is responsive but a little pokey. Ball bearings and a slightly hotter Brushed motor or even a cheap Brushless combo it really comes to life. 
it’s not  everyone’s cuppa tea though 

[Badcrumble 4204]

Given that the WT-01 isn’t that easy to get hold of, the Konghead is a good alternative. Not absolutely sure but I think, once again, it uses the ubiquitous Monster Pin Spike tyres.

Here is my Dual Hunter after a run on our unkempt parkland. Hopefully you can see the length of the grass.

It ran well, no hang ups, but was a bit slow on two 55T motors. Good for the 5 year old guest driver though.

[simalarion 2196]

since you choose Tamiya i believe you then also enjoy building/painting and doing a kit personal and do not set performance on such terraian on topp, if not i believe there ar better choices as you mentioned yourself (for a plain runner on that terain) out of the box

TXT-2 would be perfect but the lack of Hop-Ups/parts and terrible stock Tyres/Wheel Axl does so that i can only recomend if you are willing to spend much time on some modding and spend some more money on topp of the kit price... very very sadly i must say.

Other than that i seconde what Dakratfink write, it should be great fun with a KongHead or KingYellow with some upgrades. Wonder how a (gf-01) WildWilly would do (?) , was tempted to say The Grasshopper (just for the Pun) but ofc that would be terrible, the worst handling you could ever get on top off terain it cant handle .. I stil love it to death though hehe

[Pearcy 7]

Thanks guys! - great forum this 

Interesting re the Monster beetle and it's spiked tyres - hadn't noticed that before. Gotta be honest though, I personally think the BF body looks better on that ORV chassis - guess I could always fit a BF body on a Monster beetle or Monster beetle wheels/tyres on a BF...

Just on the WT01 chassis, whilst I like the Brat body I don't think it scales well on a monster truck type chassis - I wouldn't' mind a 'proper' Brat at some point for nostalgia reasons, but obviously not to run on that terrain. Again I guess I could fit a BF body on a WT01. So guys could you clarify somethng for me? so the current BF3 is an ORV chassis, along with the Monster Beetle rere, and the WT01 chassis is the Mud Blaster 2 (brat body) and the Mighty Bull? BUT, was there a Blackfoot on the WR01 chassis ar some poiint as well?

And whilst the WT01 can be built as RWD or with 2x motors, 4WD - if a WT01 is built 2wd and with the same motor as a ORV Blackfoot, which would be 'better' offroad / grass?

 

Just thought I would add a quick vid of my son giving his FTX Tracer a run in that terrain - the wild weaving from side to side is him trying to powerslide / drift  but I think for a 1/16 standard / out the box it does really well - I guess as it's light and with the 4WD it kind of skims along the top of the grass!

 

 

 

[Pearcy 7]

11 hours ago, Ministrone said:

Yet another Lotus owner on the forum. What is it about us fans of small plastic toy cars that also draws us to Tamiya RC models?😀

Good to hear! - early  S1 Elise owner here, Forged bottom end, flowed head, cams etc. - circa 165bhp in 700kg 

I guess they're rjust real eal fun cars to drive, so we look to replicate that in smaller scale!

[TurnipJF 9192]

7 hours ago, Pearcy said:

So guys could you clarify somethng for me? so the current BF3 is an ORV chassis, along with the Monster Beetle rere, and the WT01 chassis is the Mud Blaster 2 (brat body) and the Mighty Bull? BUT, was there a Blackfoot on the WR01 chassis ar some poiint as well?

The Blackfoot 3 is based on the WT-01 chassis, as is the Blackfoot Xtreme. The Blackfoot 2016 is based on the ORV chassis.

There has yet to be a WR-01 Blackfoot officially released, but you can turn a WT-01 into a WR-01 by adding a front motor, gearbox and drivetrain to make your own.

The WT-01 and WR-01 are identical bar the absence/presence of the front motor, gearbox and drivetrain, and both can be set up with 4- wheel steering really easily too. (Okay, yes, the front bumpers are also different...)

 

7 hours ago, Pearcy said:

And whilst the WT01 can be built as RWD or with 2x motors, 4WD - if a WT01 is built 2wd and with the same motor as a ORV Blackfoot, which would be 'better' offroad / grass?

I have both in my fleet, so I think I am qualified to say that all else being equal, the WT-01 is the better performer. It is wider and longer than the ORV, giving it greater stability, which means you can set the ride height to be taller without it falling over as easily as the ORV. The WT-01's lower centre of gravity thanks to the lower motor position also helps with this. It is also tougher and easier/cheaper to maintain as it shares a lot of parts with other chassis. This also makes it easier to hop up.

Don't get me wrong - I like my ORV for its classic status and interesting period engineering - but if I was wanting to drive fast and trouble-free for extended periods over rough terrain, I would choose my WT-01 over it every time.

(Actually if it was just performance I was after, I would choose my 10.5t brushless DT-03T Aqroshot on Mad Bull wheels and Heavy Dump tyres over both of them. The combination of light weight, generous contact patch and abundant power allows it to skim over the top of long grass with ease, and the soft spike tyres grip well even if the grass is wet. The WT-01 beats it in terms of toughness though.)

 

P.S. Sorry I haven't posted ground clearance measurements yet. Got home late to a sleeping family, who would be woken up if I went clattering around in the hobby room at this hour. I'll try again tomorrow after work. 

[Juggular 4964]

Nice photos!  They make it easier for us to guesstimate how much trouble you are facing...

I don't always recommend MIP ball diffs. But if you want to drive on grass, you'll definitely need a ball diff to 'almost' lock it.  You could use sticky diff grease, like plumber's faucet grease.  It's thicker than Tamiya diff grease, but far easier to remove than diff clay (which should NOT be used on ball diff).  If you change your mind, faucet grease just wipes off, even as it's much thicker than Tamiya stuff.   

I'm a 2WD man myself. But I'll freely admit that it's limited when it comes to offroadability.  The places that's not mowed? That's 4WD land, I'm afraid. If the grass is a chewy tough kind? Tamiya might not cut it (pun intended).  

If you didn't get a Ball Diff, I would have recommended as below...

Even with a ball diff, I would wager it would get stuck and you would have to rescue it.  

120mm tires are bare minimum.  Lunchbox, Wild Willy 2, may not work. They have smaller 105mm tires.  Take a look at the Farm King.  The front has 105mm the rear mounts 120mm.  15mm difference is huge. 

 

Konghead would work if you put bigger tires on it.  You'd also need to get good ball bearings and a brushless motor.  Imagine walking on wet sand that's sucking your feet in.  On grass, that's what you are asking of your RC. It's going to take a lot of torque. 

DT-03 with bigger tires will not work, unfortunately.  The gear ratio is about 9.  If you put larger tires on, the gear ratio could go down to 7 or 6. The tires tend to be heavier as they get larger too. Which is a good recipe for burning out a motor.  You'd need a lower FDR (Final Drive Ratio) of 10 or 11.  Even though a brushless motor has greater torque, I would be very hesitant to go from 82mm to 120mm tires.  About 9 is the lowest gear ratio DT-03 allows. 

So... here are my recommendations. 

[1]  Blackfoot with MIP ball diff.  Pro: Classic Tamiya with heavy body to press down on grass.  Con: least capable. 

[2]  Farm King (use diff clay).  Pro: fun. If you use diff clay, it's almost as good as ball diff.  Con: funky shell, easy to flip or tip over. 

[3]  WT-01 (use diff clay).  Pro: capable.  Con: not 2WD if you prefer 2WD.  Not easy to find, also not so easy to upgrade motors since it uses 2 motors running forward/backward. 

[4]  TXT-2 (use diff clay).  Pro: very capable.  Con: heavy and expensive 4WD. 

[5]  Konghead with larger tires & brushless.  Pro: very capable if you use diff clay.  Con: not 2WD, drives somewhat like a tank (i.e. least like 2WD).  

Tamiya ESCs can handle a 13.5t sensored brushless, you don't need to buy a separate ESC.   

No matter what you choose, there will be challenges.  Since you are mechanically inclined, however, I hope you would find the challenges fun. 

 

[Dakratfink 967]

18 minutes ago, Juggular said:

 

Nice photos!  They make it easier for us to guesstimate how much trouble you are facing...

I don't always recommend MIP ball diffs. But if you want to drive on grass, you'll definitely need a ball diff to 'almost' lock it.  You could use sticky diff grease, like plumber's faucet grease.  It's thicker than Tamiya diff grease, but far easier to remove than diff clay (which should NOT be used on ball diff).  If you change your mind, faucet grease just wipes off, even as it's much thicker than Tamiya stuff.   

I'm a 2WD man myself. But I'll freely admit that it's limited when it comes to offroadability.  The places that's not mowed? That's 4WD land, I'm afraid. If the grass is a chewy tough kind? Tamiya might not cut it (pun intended).  

If you didn't get a Ball Diff, I would have recommended as below...

Even with a ball diff, I would wager it would get stuck and you would have to rescue it.  

120mm tires are bare minimum.  Lunchbox, Wild Willy 2, may not work. They have smaller 105mm tires.  Take a look at the Farm King.  The front has 105mm the rear mounts 120mm.  15mm difference is huge. 

 

Konghead would work if you put bigger tires on it.  You'd also need to get good ball bearings and a brushless motor.  Imagine walking on wet sand that's sucking your feet in.  On grass, that's what you are asking of your RC. It's going to take a lot of torque. 

DT-03 with bigger tires will not work, unfortunately.  The gear ratio is about 9.  If you put larger tires on, the gear ratio could go down to 7 or 6. The tires tend to be heavier as they get larger too. Which is a good recipe for burning out a motor.  You'd need a lower FDR (Final Drive Ratio) of 10 or 11.  Even though a brushless motor has greater torque, I would be very hesitant to go from 82mm to 120mm tires.  About 9 is the lowest gear ratio DT-03 allows. 

So... here are my recommendations. 

[1]  Blackfoot with MIP ball diff.  Pro: Classic Tamiya with heavy body to press down on grass.  Con: least capable. 

[2]  Farm King (use diff clay).  Pro: fun. If you use diff clay, it's almost as good as ball diff.  Con: funky shell, easy to flip or tip over. 

Speaking of the farm king . I have the Kumamon  version. I run it stock save for ball bearding and a Lipo . It’s brilliant on grass 

[EvilSpike 294]

Get a Lunchbox for about £100, build it add some radio gear in it and see if it works over the ground you're proposing it to run on.

If it runs, throw £75 worth of shocks, spangly motor and braces, taking the pleasure and hours comparing parts on the internet in upgrading something to be far better than it's designers intended. Run it and enjoy it for the Ossumness™ of what it is.

If it doesn't work, sell it on ebay/facebook for £70 and buy something else. You'd have had £30 worth of entertainment in building it...

 

[Pearcy 7]

Ok, thanks for all of the comments and suggestions - really appreciate it. Whilst I have been doing what feels like lots of learning on forums and YouTube last month or so it's certainly a steep learning curve!

Whilst I keep chopping and changing, where I 'think' my head is currently at is to buy a used WT01 to play around with / upgrade as necessary depending on what I find it needs to run best on the field opposite AND a new Blitzer Beetle or DT03 Fighter / Aqroshot (and fit Biltzer wheels/tyres, mild brushless motor etc.) as I would like something to build from scratch + that's then something I can chuck in a rucksack and take to the local park etc.

And then if I have 'caught the addiction bug' potentially a new Brat rere next Christmas, just because they look so cool, even if they do drive a bit pants!!

[Busdriver 6209]

Come in a bit late to this but I have an Amarok WT01-N . It has had the suspension arms upgraded to W format, runs a 13.5 bluebottle brushless motor. It is fitted with monster beetle pin spike rear wheels. It is an absolute blast on your type of terrain. The WT01 is a bit like hens teeth but if you find one snap it up!!!

[GermanTA03Guy 1327]

15 hours ago, Pearcy said:

guess I could always fit a BF body on a Monster beetle or Monster beetle wheels/tyres on a BF...

You definitely can. I restored my 88 Blackfoot last year and put the monster beetle tires on. I think they're a lot gripper which is often good but sometimes leads to grip roll on grass as it's too much grip so it flips with its high center of gravity. Even though I already have a proline lexan body on it... 

 

For you terrain, I think the Blackfoot can drive there, but it is slowed down quite a lot. To be honest, something like a Traxxas x Maxx would work best there. 

By the way, always having had trouble with the Blackfoot diff in the 80s, my dad epoxy-glued the diffs, so it is fully locked. I haven't seen a situation where that was hindering the performance. So instead of spending 70+dollar on a ball diff, if you can find one, just glue the Blackfoot diff so it's fully locked. 

 

[alvinlwh 5895]

44 minutes ago, GermanTA03Guy said:

By the way, always having had trouble with the Blackfoot diff in the 80s, my dad epoxy-glued the diffs, so it is fully locked. I haven't seen a situation where that was hindering the performance. So instead of spending 70+dollar on a ball diff, if you can find one, just glue the Blackfoot diff so it's fully locked. 

I had done the same to a Rally modded TT-01 and it did have a problem. When dirt, etc jammed a wheel, the diff will still try to drive it, causing the drive cup (which is already weaken due to the mod) to crack. Not saying it will always be a problem for everyone, just something to be aware of.