First go at an ABS shell

[BuggyDad 4476]

I've got a Kamtec ABS shell. It's not hard plastic and detailed like for example a Tamiya hard body, but it's not clear either, so external paint. I've only done lexan before. So please critique my steps... 

I've done some work with putty already and applied primer. I think my putty work is as good as I'm going to get it. The odd blemish in the putty remains but I think if I try to apply more and sand it back again I'll just move the problem a few mm. It tends to be where putty transitions to no putty, if that makes sense. Will repeated paint coats and some future sanding help to hide this?

This is the worst bit:

So was going to spray the whole thing the main body colour next.

But do I mask off the grille, lights before painting the main body colour? I'm kind of thinking not much point, except maybe the lights. Every other little detail is black or chrome silver anyway. 

Then windows - I'm working on the basis that my only real option is to spray them black. Although I'd love to put a driver figure in this I don't want the weakness that cutting them out would create and I don't think sticking lexan "glass" in would either help that much or be easy to do a decent job of. Do I have any other options? What do you usually do? Is TS-29 the right colour? 

I want to paint on a sort of vinyl roof, so have some matt varnish to finish that. 

So I was thinking I'd paint in the following order:

Whole body colour

Grille and lights by brush. I've Flat White for lights which I think will look nothing like headlight glass but I don't see a better option. 

Mask and spray windows

Apply decals (just a small number of homemade ones if I can sort them) then clear coat everywhere multiple layers for protection

Mask for vinyl roof, paint it rubber black (slightly grey, for clear contrast vs windows) and coat with multiple layers of clear matt. A bit odd to paint on top of the clear coat but it saves trying to mask twice to exactly the same lines.

[KEV THE REV 2319]

The body can be fine filled with fine modelling putty , it will sand out to leave no visible lines if done correctly , I use a Halfords fine wet and dry pad backed with thin foam used dry to get the form then wet to cut back the primer coats  .If you can see lines where filler meets body it isn't filled enough - or it isn't cut back enough and you need to either fill more or cut back the filler and feather it more into the body plastic . You need to have an eye for the contour of the part you are working on . The areas you show on your car will not show once this process has been done one way or the other , looking at the filler you have applied I would say it needs to be cut back more , your paper might be too fine to start with . . You can also use a filler / primer spray which will fill small blemishes when sanded back . The windows can be cut out (do this sooner than later )  , rather like the old Mardave Mini / Marauder etc , and you can cut and fit lexan 'glass' for effect . I have done this before and used a hot glue gun to bond them in .I don't think black painted 'windows' look convincing  . With the painting I would carry it out as you have listed but not painting over the body clear coat with the roof colour as it could react  . It would be best to spray the clear coat , not on the roof , leave to dry thoroughly , maybe a week or so then remask for the roof , which could be sprayed in a matt (or satin , as a vinyl roof is more satin finish rather than matt ) finsh and no need to matt coat it .

[BuggyDad 4476]

19 minutes ago, KEV THE REV said:

The body can be fine filled with fine modelling putty , it will sand out to leave no visible lines if done correctly , I use a Halfords fine wet and dry pad backed with thin foam used dry to get the form then wet to cut back the primer coats  . You can also use a filler / primer spray which will fill small blemishes when sanded back . The windows can be cut out (do this sooner than later )  , rather like the old Mardave Mini / Marauder etc , and you can cut and fit lexan 'glass' for effect . I have done this before and used a hot glue gun to bond them in .I don't think black painted 'windows' look convincing  . With the painting I would carry it out as you have listed but not painting over the body clear coat with the roof colour as it could react  . It would be best to spray the clear coat , not on the roof , leave to dry thoroughly , maybe a week or so then remask for the roof , which could be sprayed in a matt (or satin , as a vinyl roof is more satin finish rather than matt ) finsh and no need to matt coat it .

The putty I have is Milliput superfine, so I think it's the right stuff. I'm just not very confident with it. It's my first go. I could sand away more of it to get to the lowest point of the blemishes but I'm somehow not confinement it'll sand back to smooth and I won't just break some off or something. I used 300 grit dry sandpaper to get the worst away then 1000 and 3000 Tamiya sponges wet. I perhaps should've been more confident with the 300 or worked the 1000 harder. 

I might pop to Halfords tomorrow for their wet & dry and primer-filler.

[Kol__ 3377]

Looks cool mate, not much advice I can offer, however I would say if it's the first time you've done something then it's the time to try out stuff and make mistakes etc. Easier said than done if course, but crack on I say. I'll keep an eye on this one and await the results, such a cool shell

[alvinlwh 5895]

Painting a "normal" model is different from painting a clear body shell. There is no real need (but read below) to mask off sections first, in fact, you shouldn't as there is a possibility your second mask will not match perfectly with your first mask and you end up with a primer "line". Instead, you should go from light to dark. For example, if the main body is white, spray white first, then mask off the white section to spray other colors. 

However, I assume you do not use an airbrush, spray cans are often horrible at control and you can end up with too thick a coat, losing details like panel lines, vents, etc... disappearing. While there are people who are experts at spray canning, you can test it out yourself by spraying on some piece of scrap material till you are satisfied, let the paint dry completely, then scrap it off to see how thick it is. Multiple layers will worsen this problem, so once you checked how thick the paint is, and how fine your details are, you can decide to mask or not. 

When I first stated on model cars (I used to make military models where brush painting is satisfactory) I used to use spray cans a lot but my model making friends (so who are award winners) strongly advised me not to waste my time, money or the kit with spray cans. After learning to use an airbrush, I soon realised how much details I lost off my models. It can be so bad that the entire vents (the ones in front of a windscreen on the hood for example) on a car disappearing completely filled with paint. I now have dozens of cans of TS paint sitting in the loft, there for over a decade since I stopped using them. This obscuring details problem may not be a problem with RC bodies as they are often quite simplified compared to real models though. 

For hand brushing the roof and metal bits, I recommend Revell Aqua, which has a wider semi-gloss/satin range than Tamiya and has a better brushed on finish than Tamiya acrylics. Their metallics are much better than Tamiya's for brushing. 

Finally, for headlight "glass", 2 part epoxy. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

Also, looking at your work flow, did you apply primer first than putty? The correct step is to prime first than putty as sometimes primer can fix surface flaws, especially if you use something like Mr Surfacer as a primer. 

[Mad Ax 9329]

7 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

I'm somehow not confinement it'll sand back to smooth and I won't just break some off or something

if it's going to break of when you sand it, then it's going to break off the first time you hit a bump.  It shouldn't break off it it's been applied properly and allowed to cure.  If it seems fragile then it may have been applied too thick, there again I'm not really much good with filler either.  I find it can take a lot of re-filling to fill those little holes like you have, or sand them out, but it's probably a case of practice, practice - I don't do enough hard bodies to get good at it  

[KEV THE REV 2319]

With some practice on this shell you will find your best way to achieve the finish you are happy with . Most important is to be happy with the preparation before you top coat anything . Every builder will have their own way of doing the work to achieve their own result . Practice makes perfect - or at the very least makes a model you are happy with . You learn a lot as you go . The next shell will be easier , and so on

[KEV THE REV 2319]

11 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

The putty I have is Milliput superfine, so I think it's the right stuff. I'm just not very confident with it

Milliput is good stuff , but for speed and convenience you can use modelling filler from hobby shops (Hobbycraft etc. ) which is straight out of the tube and dries quickly and is easy to cut back . The Kamtec shell shouldn't need massive amounts of filling , just spot fills I would say . Shooting the primer will fill a lot of minor blemishes . Don't be afraid to cut back filler as too much that's not cut back enough will show up more than the blemish you were trying to cover

[BuggyDad 4476]

14 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Also, looking at your work flow, did you apply primer first than putty? The correct step is to prime first than putty as sometimes primer can fix surface flaws, especially if you use something like Mr Surfacer as a primer. 

I did but not by design. I was going to just prime and paint accepting the surface issues but then I had a change of heart, so I sanded it back to bare plastic and applied the putty. A big part of it was because I thought this would be a good one to practise on.

8 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

if it's going to break of when you sand it, then it's going to break off the first time you hit a bump.  It shouldn't break off it it's been applied properly and allowed to cure.  If it seems fragile then it may have been applied too thick...

To be fair I think that was a lack of confidence and experience. As I have now followed this advice:

6 hours ago, KEV THE REV said:

Don't be afraid to cut back filler as too much that's not cut back enough will show up more than the blemish you were trying to cover

and it looks and feels much much better. I needed that little bit more confidence to spend more time on the 300 grit paper, dry and freehand, no sanding block to keep taking away the extra material leaving only that filler which is actually filling issues and finishing with a smooth surface. 

So I think with just one more coat of primer on the wheel arches I should then be... 

6 hours ago, KEV THE REV said:

...happy with the preparation before you top coat anything... 

 

[BuggyDad 4476]

16 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Finally, for headlight "glass", 2 part epoxy. 

Sounds like a great idea. Will do. Do you paint white first I assume? Or I also have some chrome silver. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

That "worst bit" is now smooth to the touch. There do remain some patches where it contrasts sharply from white putty to grey primer but the sanding has reached primer level, so essentially the primer has filled these low points I think. Overall very few such patches now remain.

[alvinlwh 5895]

9 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Sounds like a great idea. Will do. Do you paint white first I assume? Or I also have some chrome silver. 

Silver first then "make" the lens over. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

Just now, alvinlwh said:

Silver first then "make" the lens over. 

👍👍

[BuggyDad 4476]

It isn't absolutely 100% blemish free but what remains is only a small surface imperfection here and there. It is much better than I expected to achieve at this point and quite acceptable for the low detail shell this is, I think. I'm really enjoying this, adapting to the required patience and it makes me excited about another little project I'm planning which has a lot of cutting, gluing and filling to be done. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

It perhaps isn't quite as 70s as I'd hoped for but the shell's own imperfections are worse than those of my putty work. 

Next I'll be worried about painting the grille nicely. Think I'll mull over next steps over a week or more of full curing time. 

[KEV THE REV 2319]

Looking good

[BuggyDad 4476]

53 minutes ago, KEV THE REV said:

Looking good

Cheers @KEV THE REV! 

[BuggyDad 4476]

A clarification... I think it's OK to brush paint tamiya X/XF paints over a well cured TS sprayed base, but is this a definite or is there a risk of it damaging/blending with the paint beneath - anything I should be aware of? And then to clear coat over the top? The TS will have had more than a week curing, most likely. 

 

[alvinlwh 5895]

5 hours ago, BuggyDad said:

A clarification... I think it's OK to brush paint tamiya X/XF paints over a well cured TS sprayed base, but is this a definite or is there a risk of it damaging/blending with the paint beneath - anything I should be aware of? And then to clear coat over the top? The TS will have had more than a week curing, most likely. 

 

No, you are absolutely fine. Lacquer > enamel > acrylic. X/XF are generally acrylics (does yours smell like rubbing alcohol? If yes then it will be Tamiya acrylics), nothing will happen. Some other acrylics like Revell Aqua or Vallejo are water based and will do nothing to TS. 

However, since you already laid down acrylic, you must clear coat with acrylic clear. It is possible to get away with lacquer clear coat with light mist from an airbrush, but not from a spray can which will usually just turn the acrylics into a melted mess. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

No, you are absolutely fine. Lacquer > enamel > acrylic. X/XF are generally acrylics (does yours smell like rubbing alcohol? If yes then it will be Tamiya acrylics), nothing will happen. Some other acrylics like Revell Aqua or Vallejo are water based and will do nothing to TS. 

However, since you already laid down acrylic, you must clear coat with acrylic clear. It is possible to get away with lacquer clear coat with light mist from an airbrush, but not from a spray can which will usually just turn the acrylics into a melted mess. 

Ah. Thanks. For matt I currently just have a can of Liquitex Professional Matte Spray Varnish. Says it is "Intermixable with Liquitex Professional acrylic paint colours and mediums", so presume it's acrylic and will test. 

However it's only a can of paint and I have plenty of time before I'll be applying it to buy the right stuff if its a bad choice. 

If going Tamiya do I wamt TS-80 for matt and TS-13 for gloss? I think I want the gloss to be as gloss as poss, if you like, ha ha, and matt to be as matt as I can get it too. Max contrast, no semi-matt type stuff.

On X/XF I haven't got them with me but I think they are stated as acrylics. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

This reminds me of another question though... 

@alvinlwh I have seen your lovely work on thin chrome lines for window trim, gutters etc. I was going to try brush painting a few such chrome details on this but having bought some (black) kyosho micron tape I wondered whether others used tape for chrome too?

 

[alvinlwh 5895]

29 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Ah. Thanks. For matt I currently just have a can of Liquitex Professional Matte Spray Varnish. Says it is "Intermixable with Liquitex Professional acrylic paint colours and mediums", so presume it's acrylic and will test. 

However it's only a can of paint and I have plenty of time before I'll be applying it to buy the right stuff if its a bad choice. 

If going Tamiya do I wamt TS-80 for matt and TS-13 for gloss? I think I want the gloss to be as gloss as poss, if you like, ha ha, and matt to be as matt as I can get it too. Max contrast, no semi-matt type stuff.

On X/XF I haven't got them with me but I think they are stated as acrylics. 

From the product description "Liquitex-Gloss Varnish. There are many misconceptions about whether or not it is necessary to varnish an acrylic painting. As a general rule, you should always varnish your acrylic work when possible." So it is made for acrylics so it will be fine. 

Using TS over X/XF breaks the rule I posted earlier. Do it at your own risk. I have various kind of clear, in both acrylic and lacquer, with different degrees of glossness in between. However, in the static model making world, the best gloss clear that really protects the finish is actually a floor finish called Future. However, static models are not meant to smash into a wall at 50mph.

Most people uses acrylic these days, enamel are a PITA TBH. It stinks, very slow to dry, troublesome to thin and is hard to get a good finish. I sometimes use enamels as a filter wash, that is about it. It is in fact rather rare to be able to buy Tamiya enamels these days, generally only the Revell/Humbrol/Xtracolor tins are the more commonly seen one. Tamiya enamels are in square bottles and acrylics are in round bottles, and very obviously marked on the labels. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

34 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

This reminds me of another question though... 

@alvinlwh I have seen your lovely work on thin chrome lines for window trim, gutters etc. I was going to try brush painting a few such chrome details on this but having bought some (black) kyosho micron tape I wondered whether others used tape for chrome too?

 

Forget about brushing, tapes and whatnots.  I had done that for decades without much real success. Until I went to a model competition 2 years ago with a mate where he pointed out that some of the entries are "cheating" as they used markers. Now, I don't give a rat's rear end about cheating or not, I just want something that is pleasing to my eyes, and perhaps my wife's untrained eyes. I have no desire to enter any competitions. 

So... Your answer is, markers. You can use the stinky chrome art markers that never seem to flown well enough for the fine work we needed (they tend to come out in one big blob) or acrylic. I use Posca acrylic markers (Amazon) which does NOT have a fibre tip and sometimes Gundam markers (in fact Mr Color made by GSI). Acrylic is more forgiving as mistakes can be cleared off by water before the paint dry, BUT it is very weak and can be rubbed off. It is also less shiny. So a top coat is a must especially for a RC car. Also, take care if you use Posca as their tip is like a mini pointed straw with many sharp points, digging against an edge and pushing it the wrong way can cause little drops of paint splash. Stinky or Gundam markers have better metallic shine but are harder to control and mistakes are usually permanent. Also Gundam are for wider areas due to their much wider tip. 

You have it easier on the Mainland as Gundam (and stinky) markers are classed as dangerous goods like lipo and Amazon will not deliver to me. 

[BuggyDad 4476]

48 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Using TS over X/XF breaks the rule I posted earlier. Do it at your own risk. 

Sorry, confused. didn't understand the rule. Where you said "Lacquer > enamel > acrylic" - is it that lacquer can be painted over enamel which can be painted over acrylic, but not the other way round?

I see TS referred to as acrylic in some places but mostly as lacquer. This is all quite new to me. 

So I'm good to paint the X/XF acrylic over my cured TS colour (both acrylic, I think) but I should not use a TS clear coat on top of X/XF, instead going for something else?