First go at an ABS shell

[BuggyDad 4477]

37 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Forget about brushing, tapes and whatnots.  I had done that for decades without much real success. Until I went to a model competition 2 years ago with a mate where he pointed out that some of the entries are "cheating" as they used markers. Now, I don't give a rat's rear end about cheating or not, I just want something that is pleasing to my eyes, and perhaps my wife's untrained eyes. I have no desire to enter any competitions. 

So... Your answer is, markers. You can use the stinky chrome art markers that never seem to flown well enough for the fine work we needed (they tend to come out in one big blob) or acrylic. I use Posca acrylic markers (Amazon) which does NOT have a fibre tip and sometimes Gundam markers (in fact Mr Color made by GSI). Acrylic is more forgiving as mistakes can be cleared off by water before the paint dry, BUT it is very weak and can be rubbed off. It is also less shiny. So a top coat is a must especially for a RC car. Also, take care if you use Posca as their tip is like a mini pointed straw with many sharp points, digging against an edge and pushing it the wrong way can cause little drops of paint splash. Stinky or Gundam markers have better metallic shine but are harder to control and mistakes are usually permanent. Also Gundam are for wider areas due to their much wider tip. 

You have it easier on the Mainland as Gundam (and stinky) markers are classed as dangerous goods like lipo and Amazon will not deliver to me. 

Sounds like a great tip. Thanks! 1M = 0.7mm sounds like a good option. 

[Kol__ 3377]

Hey @BuggyDad, that shell is looking great and the talk about mixing finishes between matt and gloss sounds awesome! I'm hoping for some sort of old school pin striping detail work here too! ???

I'm certainly no expert, but having painted a few shells in the past few months, my experience has been that you can paint the TS-13 clear gloss top coat over the X/XF brush on paints without issue. That's what I did on my Lunchbox. For the window surround, which I painted in XF rubber black, I used 3mm masking tape to get a nice clean line around it and it worked almost perfectly - I just had one minor touch up afterwards where the tape joined, always a tricky bit I think. I would suggest that using masking tapes and then painting is the best option or at least masking up before using any sort of markers as well. I used X paints for the lights and clear coated the whole thing in TS-13. A month later it still looks spot on, no reactions between paints or cracks in the clear coat etc. I did wait a week before applying making tape and the X/XF paints just to make sure the top coat had fully cured and I wasn't going to damage it with tape or have a reaction with the brush on paints.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing the next stage!

[alvinlwh 5895]

33 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Sorry, confused. didn't understand the rule. Where you said "Lacquer > enamel > acrylic" - is it that lacquer can be painted over enamel which can be painted over acrylic, but not the other way round?

I see TS referred to as acrylic in some places but mostly as lacquer. This is all quite new to me. 

So I'm good to paint the X/XF acrylic over my cured TS colour (both acrylic, I think) but I should not use a TS clear coat on top of X/XF, instead going for something else? 

Lacquer TO Enamel TO Acrylic. There are exceptions to this rule but at your own risk (and tears). 

Whoever call TS acrylic probably don't know what they are talking about. Tamiya acrylic is not a "true" acrylic like Vallejo. However, it still behave like an acrylic for the purpose of the rule. The thinner in TS is the problem, even though the pigments might very well be acrylic, they are thinned with lacquer thinner. Similar to me using Mr Color Thinner (an almost universal thinner for model paint) with Tamiya acrylics, which will turn it into a hot lacquer like paint. I do not expect you to get into such mix and match, so just follow the long established rule. In fact, for brush painting, it is best to use water to thin Tamiya acrylic not X-20A.

The problem is not so much as using lacquer over acrylic. It is TS that is the problem. Each blast from the can is a heavy coat, meaning there will be a high concentration of hot thinner to melt the acrylic under. I had used lacquer over acrylics all the time, but with an airbrush, and with light mist coats. 

[BuggyDad 4477]

8 hours ago, Kol__ said:

Hey @BuggyDad, that shell is looking great and the talk about mixing finishes between matt and gloss sounds awesome! I'm hoping for some sort of old school pin striping detail work here too! ???

I'm certainly no expert, but having painted a few shells in the past few months, my experience has been that you can paint the TS-13 clear gloss top coat over the X/XF brush on paints without issue. That's what I did on my Lunchbox. For the window surround, which I painted in XF rubber black, I used 3mm masking tape to get a nice clean line around it and it worked almost perfectly - I just had one minor touch up afterwards where the tape joined, always a tricky bit I think. I would suggest that using masking tapes and then painting is the best option or at least masking up before using any sort of markers as well. I used X paints for the lights and clear coated the whole thing in TS-13. A month later it still looks spot on, no reactions between paints or cracks in the clear coat etc. I did wait a week before applying making tape and the X/XF paints just to make sure the top coat had fully cured and I wasn't going to damage it with tape or have a reaction with the brush on paints.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing the next stage!

 

Cheers buddy! 

I'm a little torn. I have lots of ideas for this, most of which have a significant risk of not working! Most likely I will try a little too many things and it'll be a good learning experience. Some chrome lines now I've got @alvinlwh's pen ordered, but the boxy wings kill off the classic long side stripe. 

I'm pretty sure the bonnet and headlight shape is from a Capri mk1 face-lift, very early 70s, so this lends itself to chrome. But the body kit smacks of something much later and, although I can't quite pinpoint why, I think the rear end is later. Maybe it's just the spoiler, which has to be matt black. The back of the car is just a flat blank face, so paint/decals will have to do it all, but anything goes, and doing nothing is an option. I'm going to aim for an earlier aesthetic generally, but accuracy will not be high! 

I've got some laser printer transparent sticker stuff which will be an interesting experiment. Bit worried a clear coat over the top of that would melt the ink, so I might stick them on with Tamiya transparent decal offcuts over the top to protect. Some experimenting to follow... 

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

I've got some laser printer transparent sticker stuff which will be an interesting experiment. Bit worried a clear coat over the top of that would melt the ink, so I might stick them on with Tamiya transparent decal offcuts over the top to protect. Some experimenting to follow... 

Decals or stickers?

If it is a real decal (waterslide), they don't react with paint, even if self printed (correctly). Only really "hot" paint may have an effect on them.

If stickers (the sticky things that kids play with), well, sticker on top of sticker? You will end up with quite a thickness and after painting, a bumpy mess.

[BuggyDad 4477]

22 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Decals or stickers?

If it is a real decal (waterslide), they don't react with paint, even if self printed (correctly). Only really "hot" paint may have an effect on them.

If stickers (the sticky things that kids play with), well, sticker on top of sticker? You will end up with quite a thickness and after painting, a bumpy mess.

Well, I got sticker paper but I could get some waterslide paper as well. I think the stickers, with another transparent sticker on top pre cutting out, could be good anyway for something like a Ford logo which would at full scale sit proud anyway.

Quite expensive per sheet but if I can do multiple models at once then I could get a lot out of an A4 sheet. Got 2 more projects in mind that would use the idea... 

[alvinlwh 5895]

25 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Well, I got sticker paper but I could get some waterslide paper as well. I think the stickers, with another transparent sticker on top pre cutting out, could be good anyway for something like a Ford logo which would at full scale sit proud anyway.

Quite expensive per sheet but if I can do multiple models at once then I could get a lot out of an A4 sheet. Got 2 more projects in mind that would use the idea... 

It will work if it is for a badge, but looks awful if on a car full of advert stickers. And yes, this is an expensive hobby, for us in the UK, where prices are marked up over 100%.

[BuggyDad 4477]

@alvinlwh Sorry I'm not fully there on your rule. If I'm to buy some clear coat to go over TS paints, with in some areas some Tamiya brushed acrylic XF or X details, and some waterslide decals, am I best to buy a lacquer clear coat rather than an acrylic one? And I should avoid the Tamiya TS ones? I'm clear coating in both gloss and matt in different areas.

Apologies, I think you've already answered this question in a way, I just can't quite get my small brain around it... 

 

[BuggyDad 4477]

And on a related note, how long should I leave a coat of TS before I apply any masking tape on top of it? I have read conflicting views on this, from "one day is fine" to "at least a week", with something in between about the two colours moving and cracking at different rates.

I'm doing another same abs material shell in parallel. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

28 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

@alvinlwh Sorry I'm not fully there on your rule. If I'm to buy some clear coat to go over TS paints, with in some areas some Tamiya brushed acrylic XF or X details, and some waterslide decals, am I best to buy a lacquer clear coat rather than an acrylic one? And I should avoid the Tamiya TS ones? I'm clear coating in both gloss and matt in different areas.

Apologies, I think you've already answered this question in a way, I just can't quite get my small brain around it... 

Those are not my rules, those are the rules long established in the static model making world. Lacquer first then enamel then acrylic. There are some who will say they had gone the other way and nothing happened. Even I myself had sprayed rather "hot" Mr Color over "weak" acrylic markers, but I airbrush and can control the flow for a light mist, not blasting and soaking with a TS can. So if you want to do that, it is at your own risk, I had seen too many pictures of a melted mess by going the wrong way. 

As for decals, if you really must know, we use floor "polish" under and over it. 

Future is effectively acrylic clear. Since it is not normally available in the UK, I use Humbrol and also Daler Rowney clear (cheap), thinned and adjusted for airbrushing. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

And on a related note, how long should I leave a coat of TS before I apply any masking tape on top of it? I have read conflicting views on this, from "one day is fine" to "at least a week", with something in between about the two colours moving and cracking at different rates.

I'm doing another same abs material shell in parallel. 

For TS, I will say a few days as they take a long time to dry properly. For my airbrushed lacquer, a few hours and they are good to go. 

A tip for a handy drying rack, if your central heating is water based, the top of a double panel radiator is the best place I had so far for drying paint. I used to have an air-to-water system and it was great as the temperature is at 60C. Unfortunately now I have an air-to-air system so it is not so good. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

@alvinlwh Sorry I'm not fully there on your rule. If I'm to buy some clear coat to go over TS paints, with in some areas some Tamiya brushed acrylic XF or X details, and some waterslide decals, am I best to buy a lacquer clear coat rather than an acrylic one? And I should avoid the Tamiya TS ones? I'm clear coating in both gloss and matt in different areas.

Apologies, I think you've already answered this question in a way, I just can't quite get my small brain around it... 

https://www.airbrushmodeler.com/model-paint-compatibility-chart/

[BuggyDad 4477]

2 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Those are not my rules, those are the rules long established in the static model making world. Lacquer first then enamel then acrylic. There are some who will say they had gone the other way and nothing happened. Even I myself had sprayed rather "hot" Mr Color over "weak" acrylic markers, but I airbrush and can control the flow for a light mist, not blasting and soaking with a TS can. So if you want to do that, it is at your own risk, I had seen too many pictures of a melted mess by going the wrong way. 

As for decals, if you really must know, we use floor "polish" under and over it. 

Future is effectively acrylic clear. Since it is not normally available in the UK, I use Humbrol and also Daler Rowney clear (cheap), thinned and adjusted for airbrushing. 

Gotcha. Cool. Thank you. So TS I read is "synthetic lacquer" which means anything will go on top of that, but their X and XF paints are acrylic so as soon as I brush any detail on I can't then finish with TS-13/80, only an acrylic clear coat will be a sure bet on top of the X/XFs. 

Among the Humbrol, Daler Rowney and any other options, do some give better protection for rc use than others? I mean, I know external paint isn't going to handle much crashing but if there's a difference between options I'd go for whatever's tougher. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

17 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Among the Humbrol, Daler Rowney and any other options, do some give better protection for rc use than others? I mean, I know external paint isn't going to handle much crashing but if there's a difference between options I'd go for whatever's tougher. 

Nothing will handle much crashing, not even real car 2K paints. Which is why I don't bother to paint my Lunchbox's body anymore. It will in fact look worse after a crash on painted bodies with primer showing through etc... If I want a nice, shiny, detailed and accurate body, I build my 1/24 kits. RC shells are never made to be accurate in the first place but to match the chassis under, and one crash will undo all the effort. 

[BuggyDad 4477]

Hey @alvinlwh this stuff which is apparently renamed Future is available in the UK:

https://finescale.com/how-to/tips/2018/05/reader-tips-pledge-future-gloss-has-a-new-name 

Eg here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142863716999

It's not for me though, I want a spray can.

Curious that the humbrol stuff (and other spray clear acrylics) don't seem to be sold anywhere that also does the Tamiya spray paints I want. Do they have some kind of retailer non competition thing going on? 

[alvinlwh 5895]

32 minutes ago, BuggyDad said:

Hey @alvinlwh this stuff which is apparently renamed Future is available in the UK:

https://finescale.com/how-to/tips/2018/05/reader-tips-pledge-future-gloss-has-a-new-name 

Eg here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142863716999

It's not for me though, I want a spray can.

Curious that the humbrol stuff (and other spray clear acrylics) don't seem to be sold anywhere that also does the Tamiya spray paints I want. Do they have some kind of retailer non competition thing going on? 

I am still using the £1 stuff I hoarded from over a decade ago bought from some Asian £ shop. Have you seen the current price of them? 

The reason that almost nothing is in spray can is because serious modellers that will use these stuff will have an airbrush (or two or half a dozen). 

Here is a spray can acrylic, extremely rare in the UK. I got mine through personal import, as in I fly out to the far east and buy them and bring them back myself. But that was before I started airbrushing, I now have dozens of cans of spray OF various types sitting in the loft, mostly brand new. 

https://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/product/86ml-mr-topcoat-gloss-mr-hobby-b-501/

[BuggyDad 4477]

Went for the Humbrol stuff. Will see how I get on. Will be a while before I use it I think.

Best practice is to clear coat before as well as after waterslide decals?

Edit: not ignoring your advice, rather I'd bought before coming back to this thread!