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alvinlwh

3Racing M4 (no longer mystery BOX 2 but Suzuki Swift Supersport 1600)

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Next, Bag 6

Step 8 - Front and Rear Knuckles Assembly 

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As usual, all bearings are included. Instructions are wrong here as only 5 x 10 x 4 (1050) bearings are included yet it calls for 5 x 10 x 3, which I don't believe exists. 

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Front done. 

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Installed. Tried using the turnbuckle tool included and they are a great example why plastic, as hard as they are in these kits, are poor materials for tools. It became rounded after just 1 turnbuckle. 

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Rear, with the usual bearings and CVA included as standard. 

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Built up. I do not need to use the usual body clips to stop the bearings from falling out as the fit nicely into the hubs unlike Tamiya's loose holes. 

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With the hubs installed, I am eager to try out my first belt drive. So I installed the eventual motor for it, an Orion Vortex dDrive 2700kv with ESC built right into the motor and a 26T pinion I have on hand to test it. 

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It is longer than a standard 540 motor, but because the wires comes up straight from the top instead of sticking a bit out of the end, it ended up being the same. 

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And for completeness, I also installed a silver can which will be its first motor with a 24T pinion I also have on hand. 

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The only shaft driven cars I have are x2 1/8 IC and a TA02.  The rest are belts, my favourite.

The design of this car looks so similar to my Yokomo BD8.

If you like fast cars, you will enjoy this.

 

Do you have set-up station?

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5 hours ago, M 800STD said:

The only shaft driven cars I have are x2 1/8 IC and a TA02.  The rest are belts, my favourite.

The design of this car looks so similar to my Yokomo BD8.

If you like fast cars, you will enjoy this.

 

Do you have set-up station?

I was told that belt and open pinions are not suitable for my type of driving, outdoors on unprepared tarmac. The dirt and stuff will get in and chew them up. Also, the extremely low chassis get badly scratched on the hard and rough surface.

My original plan for my first belt drive was the TA03R-S but got fed up by the amount of money need to spend before a Tamiya is road worthy. So I looked elsewhere. These 3R kits have almost everything OOB and yet  cost lower than many Tamiyas. 

Really, I am kind of a "collector" of chassis and a builder, wanting to try one of each chassis. Not possible of course, so just want as many chassis types as I can I afford. I recently completed a M-06 because I wanted to try a RR and to partner my M-05. Didn't like it much, probably going to be a wall decoration now. And I just placed an order for a MST TCR-M yesterday so that I can try a true FF (not a FMF like a M-05). 

So, will I enjoy this? Do I like fast car? Well, really depends, will not know until I finished it. I do have high hopes for it being 4WD though as I like MTC sized cars, just wish I can make more ground clearance for it. As for speed, who don't like it? I used to experiment with motors, but with this (and especially the MG Evo), it is easy to experiment with pinions and spur combo. Currently I am on a quest to cook a silver can (too many of them anyway) by seeing how stupid I can go with the gearing on the MG Evo before putting in a BL as I feel they look better in these 3R chassis. I use the silver cans in these chassis just to feel what they are like first before upping their speed. 

Finally, it is interesting you asked about the setup station, my mate was just telling me to get one last week, I looked at the price of one, LOLed and went to order a MST TCR-M  instead. 

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U2GJUnJ.jpg

This looks clean enough, from what I can see.  I've never damaged gears due to debris, not saying it couldn't happen.  As for the chassis, get a protector.

I collect bodies, GT1s, as chassis design has not changed much.

Set-up stations are great.  You'll be surprised how good you can make the car handle with one of these and how far out you are from using instruction specs.  Also have corner weight system.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

U2GJUnJ.jpg

This looks clean enough, from what I can see.  I've never damaged gears due to debris, not saying it couldn't happen.  As for the chassis, get a protector.

I collect bodies, GT1s, as chassis design has not changed much.

Set-up stations are great.  You'll be surprised how good you can make the car handle with one of these and how far out you are from using instruction specs.  Also have corner weight system.

There are loose bits of stones/chippings and if I run in the other side (not seen in the picture), the uneven paving can cause the car to catch some air, something that was never noticeable with Tamiya. 

I tried looking for chassis protector (previously suggested by you?) and cannot find any for these chassis. It had been suggested that I adjust or remove the droop screws but if I set them to 0, the drive train fouls. 

I collect chassis mainly from an engineering point of view, to build and understand them. Kind of a try one of each type situation. 

I may eventually get a setup station, but at my current level (only started RC last summer) there are still many things I need to understand first before getting that deep. For example, I am still experimenting with the effects of shocks angle, which don't seem to make any difference on such low ground clearance chassis as it will ground out with any suspension action. 

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Just get a generic one and cut to shape.

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TONISPORT channel on youtube has some good set-up info and information on suspension angle settings.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Just get a generic one and cut to shape.

Ah, OK will look some up. 

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Step 9 - Front and Rear Shock Assembly 

Since I already built the shocks the first thing, it is just Attaching them. 

Front

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Rear

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Next bag 8

Step 10 - TC Unit Installation 

Electronics now. I actually missed a whole page and had to backtrack. 

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First up, installation of the servo. This is a placeholder servo. It was sold as "high speed" by RCMart but having tested it, it felt very standard. Due to extreme lack of space (seen later), a low profile will be installed when it arrives. 

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The servo installed into its holder. Nice FRP top plate. Once again, the aerial holder is a pain as it screws in from below. 

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Rx installed in the recommended position. 

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Next up, the battery holders. In theory, the chassis can fit normal or shorty batteries, but as seen later, the only practical option is shorty. 

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The holders is very adjustable to hold the battery snuggly. 

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Battery in with default settings. However spacers can be removed to sit it closer to the centre of the chassis. 

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With spacers removed as much as possible, there is this much space. Meaning the battery can be moved 6mm to the centerline. 

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Motor installed. There is simply no room for an ESC on the motor side and the only possible location is behind the battery. This is not ideal as there are many wires crossing the drive belts. 

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The instructions called for the ESC to be mounted vertically behind the RX but even then, there is just enough space for my heatsinkless ESC and if using bigger pinions, will push the motor into that space. Also, it is impossible to fit any large powerful brushless ESC on this chassis, even with a low profile servo. I may have to use the ESCless brushless sooner than I planned. 

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@mtbkym01 do you mind some closeup of how you fit your sway bars, the end connectors to the drop down to the suspension. How much should the sway bar stick out? The instructions is not clear on it. Also, if I screw the grab screws at the ball bearings to "only touching" as per the instructions, the thing will just fall apart. Surely that's not right? Have to tighten mine right down.

Also, do you find the lack of space to fit electronics a pain? It is impossible to fit electronics as instructed. I do notice you fit your Rx on the servo plate and may have to copy that. Also, when my low profile arrives, it should free up a few more mms. 

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9 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Stick the Rx on top of servo.

Yes, I just saw how mtbkym01 did his. However, I am hoping that with a low profile servo, I can get enough space. Also, I got a ESCless BL that I plan to put in eventually. All these are just temporary using weak tape at the moment as I get used to the chassis with a silver can first. 

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8 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Mine...

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How did you do up your sway bars? From the picture, it seems that the end your front right seem to stick out more than the left? The instructions is not too clear on this. 

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They are actually both equal. 

Both left and right rods vertical as possible, then followed this method...

 

 

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I’m quite interested in seeing your tuning results.  My car has never been dialed in completely, just slowly improving.

The first M-chassis I drove was the M07R which is absolutely spectacular. It’s very neutral and supremely predictable.  It is the basis for which I compare the M4 Sport.  In theory the 4wd chassis should be superior, but I’m struggling with it.

My M4 currently has YR click-adjustable dampers with Tamiya soft oil, all on the M4 OEM springs and softest setting.  The tops are mounted in the furthest inboard holes.  The rear sway bar is removed to gain more rear traction, front sway bar has ends all the way out for minimal tension.  Tires are Tamiya M-grip, also tried the Tamiya/RIDE SC-36M set. There’s -1 degree camber on all corners and 2 degrees rear toe. The motor is a 17.5t HobbyWing brushless.  I’ve replaced most of the steel components with Al and Ti to lighten it up even though it has a NiMH pack.  
Cornering traction is nominal so I’m continually trying to find more grip on the asphalt. Oversteer is somewhat inconsistent as is rear kick out. 

Quite eager to hear of every else’s trials and tribulations with the M4….

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6 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

@mtbkym01 do you mind some closeup of how you fit your sway bars, the end connectors to the drop down to the suspension. How much should the sway bar stick out? The instructions is not clear on it. Also, if I screw the grab screws at the ball bearings to "only touching" as per the instructions, the thing will just fall apart. Surely that's not right? Have to tighten mine right down.

Also, do you find the lack of space to fit electronics a pain? It is impossible to fit electronics as instructed. I do notice you fit your Rx on the servo plate and may have to copy that. Also, when my low profile arrives, it should free up a few more mms. 

I will attempt to get some pics tomorrow 

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7 hours ago, M 800STD said:

They are actually both equal. 

Both left and right rods vertical as possible, then followed this method...

Thanks, really helpful. Setting them now.

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@M 800STD thanks to the video, I adjusted the sway bars, but got a few questions.

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1. How firm should the grab screws be? I believe they hold the bearings which hold the bar in position. If I set according to the instructions, just touching, they will all just fall out. 

2. This is probably a stupid question, how "deep" should the eye go into the ball? On Tamiya, I used to do this and since discovered that they can be pressed down further, double click if you will, and that removes all play. I tried "double click" on the MG Evo I built and it caused binding instead. 

(also, these 3R eyelets are so hard to install and remove compared to Tamiya!) 

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5 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

I’m quite interested in seeing your tuning results.  My car has never been dialed in completely, just slowly improving.

 

You may have to wait a long time mate! I am just a noob beginner and am still trying out and learning myself. With a chassis like this that has so many possible adjustments, it will take quite a while before I tried everything and anything. 

In fact I had been buying up chassis so fast that it shocked my mate. I need to return to what I already have, get the best out of them, instead of building one after another. 😅

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2 hours ago, mtbkym01 said:

I will attempt to get some pics tomorrow 

Thanks for the offer mate. M 800STD had already answered the question and they are set up now. 

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So making use of the last "working" from home time, decided to do a trim run of the chassis. 

On with some 6mm hex I have around. 

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Using some part worn Tamiya M chassis wheels off the M-06, the axle is seriously short! Or the wheels are much thicker. Or they are meant to be used with serrated nuts. Whatever, it will just be a trim run so they will do for the moment. 

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Wheels on, battery connected. Time to go. (yes, the wiring is a mess, I know!) 

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So on my usual proving/trimming ground. 5 clicks of right trim is required. 

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6 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

1. How firm should the grab screws be? I believe they hold the bearings which hold the bar in position. If I set according to the instructions, just touching, they will all just fall out. 

 

Move them a little more, ensuring no binding.

6 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

2. This is probably a stupid question, how "deep" should the eye go into the ball? On Tamiya, I used to do this and since discovered that they can be pressed down further, double click if you will, and that removes all play. I tried "double click" on the MG Evo I built and it caused binding instead. 

 

Don't know about your double clicking balls.

All my cars balls and eyes go on with one placement.  I would suggest choosing the the click value that does not bind.

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