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alvinlwh

Trouble with a BL motor

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This is probably a "can't help/tell what's wrong without seeing and feeling it in person" type of problem. 

I got a BL & ESC combo set, my first BL after hearing so many good things about them. 

Yesterday, while preparing it for installation, I thought I will dial up the timing as it is so p weak, just about on par with a Torque Tuned. 

After I put it back together it will not turn and got hot really fast. It did make some grinding noise though. 

So I reset the timing and tried again. It ran this time, but vibrates a lot and still got hot really fast. 

I was very careful when I took it apart and put all spacers etc back exactly as they were. 

Here is a picture of the end, it is the "take the end off and move the sensor" type of adjustment. More pictures can be supplied if required. 

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Like you said, would prefer to have it in my hands and look.

If it's getting that hot really quickly, maybe shorting out.

Take it apart and have another look.  Also look for dry solder joints.

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14 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Take it apart and have another look.  Also look for dry solder joints.

I will have a fellow TC member looking at it tomorrow but what do you mean by dry solder joints? Where to look for? 

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19 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

If it's getting that hot really quickly, maybe shorting out.

Oh, shouldn't the ESC have short protection to prevent things like this? 

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Dry solder joints are joints which will give intermittent or zero connection.  I doubt it is this but worth a look.  Google images of what they look like.  A good solder joint should be shiny.

ESCs do have protection but not necessarily on all circuits.

I assume you have set ESC to default settings as well as motor?

Page 17 section 12.3.3, D.M.T.S.  Do you think you over timed it?

Did you connect motor wires in correct order (sensored mode)?

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Can't help but wonder whether the motor was not right from the day you got it, given your comments as to how weak it is. I would say our speed passion 17.5t motor, which looking at the pic might be exactly the same model, is more powerful than the torque tuned it replaced, although it wasn't dramatically different and has now been replaced with something else. 

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@BuggyDad  You are probably right.  Just re-read initial post.

Either esc or motor was faulty or maybe motor wires were not connected in correct order, if in sensored mode.

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1 hour ago, M 800STD said:

Dry solder joints are joints which will give intermittent or zero connection.  I doubt it is this but worth a look.  Google images of what they look like.  A good solder joint should be shiny.

ESCs do have protection but not necessarily on all circuits.

I assume you have set ESC to default settings as well as motor?

Page 17 section 12.3.3, D.M.T.S.  Do you think you over timed it?

Did you connect motor wires in correct order (sensored mode)?

Do you mean the joint of ESC to motor? This one uses plugs presoldered in. Or you meaning somewhere else I should look. 

I did nothing to the ESC as a program card for Speed Passion ESC is no longer available anywhere, so it is completely OOB. I am not able to set anything on it at all. 

I showed a picture of the bell end of the motor as the method of timing for this type of motor is to take the end off and physically move the sensor board, not the usual lose and turn the bell end type. The picture is hoping someone will recognise and had experience with this type. 

When you said order, I thought for sensored motor, it doesn't matter and if the motor runs in the wrong direction, just swap 2 wires? 

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1 hour ago, BuggyDad said:

Can't help but wonder whether the motor was not right from the day you got it, given your comments as to how weak it is. I would say our speed passion 17.5t motor, which looking at the pic might be exactly the same model, is more powerful than the torque tuned it replaced, although it wasn't dramatically different and has now been replaced with something else. 

 

49 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

@BuggyDad  You are probably right.  Just re-read initial post.

Either esc or motor was faulty or maybe motor wires were not connected in correct order, if in sensored mode.

No, the motor was running fine (smooth, without heat up) initially. The "weakness" is that my expectation of a 17.5T is much higher as some BL fan had told me that it will "easily beat" my Super Stocks here a few months ago while it is just about the same as a Torque Tuned, no where near any Super Stocks. 

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Big no, no in sensored mode.  Damage will occurr.

You can do the method you described only on sensoreless mode/configuration.

It even states it in your instructions.

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18 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

When you said order, I thought for sensored motor, it doesn't matter and if the motor runs in the wrong direction, just swap 2 wires? 

This is true for sensorless but is it for sensored? In sensored the esc receives a signal from a separate sensor and will act on it powering up the respective pole, so surely they'll need to be in the right order unless the esc is intelligent enough to recalibrate itself according to what's going on. 

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Just now, M 800STD said:

Big no, no in sensored mode.  Damage will occurr.

You can do the method you described only on sensoreless mode/configuration.

It even states it in your instructions.

OK, looks like maybe I had killed it. I am just about to plug it in to test again as your reply came in. 

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Just now, BuggyDad said:

This is true for sensorless but is it for sensored? In sensored the esc receives a signal from a separate sensor and will act on it powering up the respective pole, so surely they'll need to be in the right order unless the esc is intelligent enough to recalibrate itself according to what's going on. 

Yah, probably user error. Looks like I do not have much luck with BL. Will stick with brushed in the future. 

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Just now, alvinlwh said:

Yah, probably user error. Looks like I do not have much luck with BL. Will stick with brushed in the future.

If that motor isn't damaged then no harm done, right? If it is then why not grab a cheap faster BL and swap in like for like. You might get a whole lot of extra performance. I've been swapping between 3 different Speed Passion motors like that just to try stuff out. It's nice they've got the bullet connectors. 

Annoyingly, when I thought I'd stuffed a sensor board I found out the part number but they're a right pain to get hold of. There was one shop in Cyprus or somewhere doing the part though. If you think that needs replacing I'll look up the link. It wasn't expensive. 

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1 minute ago, M 800STD said:

Don't give up on brushless.

I always opt for sensoreless.  More efficient.

Far too expensive though. For one BL setup, I can do 2 or 3 brushed, or replace the motor 3 or 4 times at least, more than enough to last me for a lifetime. 

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I've picked up a new 5.5t Speed Passion, a lightly used 17.5t Speed Passion and some heavily used 7.5t thing each for £25 or under. And the SP 10.5t ones are only about £35 I think. I don't think it has to be expensive. 

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8 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Page 6, section 4.2.

You seems quite familiar with these SP stuff, do you know if it is still possible to get program cards for them. If not, does any other brands work with them? 

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1 minute ago, BuggyDad said:

I've picked up a new 5.5t Speed Passion, a lightly used 17.5t Speed Passion and some heavily used 7.5t thing each for £25 or under. And the SP 10.5t ones are only about £35 I think. I don't think it has to be expensive. 

Plus ESC will bring the total to around £70+. I got my packaged with ESC from HK for £25+pp, thought it was a great deal, and then to find out that there is no program card for sale anywhere for the ESC AND it does not seem to have reverse. So another £30ish for a ESC and £10ish for a program card. 

If you are interested, 3R is selling the 8.5R (better than T?) for £31 with this (pretty useless) ESC. 

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@BuggyDad

@M 800STD

Further update, adjusted the sensor to (max?) +10 timing and wires connected correctly, it runs fine now and definitely is more powerful than the default setting.

Thanks again, so this is not a "can't help/tell what's wrong without seeing and feeling it in person" type of problem after all! 

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17 minutes ago, M 800STD said:

Don't give up on brushless.

I always opt for sensoreless.  More efficient.

I didn't gave up completely, I got an Orion Vortex dDrive 2700kv to try out after I was disappointed with this one. That one is nearly impossible to get wrong, but £60 odd for performance around a GT/UGT level, it is rather expensive.

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