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Saito2

Why the distain for full vintage experience?

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I've had a hand in restoring many vintage 1:1 cars in my time. These vehicles are brought back to be as original as possible and, as you can imagine, are not as "easy to live with" as a modern vehicle. Its part of the "vintage charm" or the vintage experience. One of my personal cars is modified, but with period-correct accessories. This means points ignition and a carb with a choke, etc. because that's what was around back them, not DIS or EFI.

Why then, is there a certain dislike for details like this in our vintage RC cars, namely electronics? There appears to often be a push toward Lipo regardless if the car is vintage or not. Mechanical speed controllers get the worst off it, often tossed for an ESC. MSCs tend to actually garner a certain hatred (too many burned fingers from resistors possibly, lol). Honestly, for the full experience, a BEC pack could/should be used in places where appropriate. It just seems, in the world of vintage RC, there are not as many folks intent on going "all-out" for the vintage experience, often taking short-cuts with electronics.

Am I scolding? That is not my intent. Its just an honest question. I really don't mind how any of us enjoy this hobby. Want to put an ESC, Lipo and brushless in your vintage Hotshot? Go for it. Doesn't bother me. There's no "right" way to have fun. In the 1:1 world, folks aren't surprised to see a mechanical fuel pump, points, and a carb on a Model A Ford, even though modern equivalents would make life easier, so why the dislike for using an MSC and receiver pack for things other than the shelf? Again, this isn't finger pointing and surely there are those among us who still go full vintage runner. Just wondering or perhaps its all in my head.

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I have ESC and MSC in various models . If they came with MSC they usually keep them , if it is a project car I might put in an ESC . I don't use Li-Po and stick to Ni-Mh because I want to  . Like you I believe people should use what they prefer and are comfortable with . The re-re market is full of upgrades from original spec. and that's fine as you can also have OG and Re-Re if you want - or mix and match .

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Food for thought @Saito2

It’s and easy one for me to answer, if the model is vintage and destined only for shelf duty then MSC’s, 2nd servo and resistors complete the car in my mind.

However if I want to run it then I would choose ESC’s and modern radio gear to hopefully keep the model in one piece 😂

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Personally I would say it's upto the person who owns the vehicle. Same goes for 1:1 cars, where people would fit electronic ignition etc in classic cars. The way I see it is that it's totally upto the person who owns the car/vehicle, it's theirs and they can do what they want 👍 . If I owned a vintage car and fitted an ESC and someone tried to give me a "telling off" , I would certainly tell them where to go and mind their own business. 😂👍

James 

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1 hour ago, Grumpy pants said:

However if I want to run it then I would choose ESC’s and modern radio gear to hopefully keep the model in one piece 😂

Understandable.

56 minutes ago, InsaneJim69 said:

Personally I would say it's upto the person who owns the vehicle. Same goes for 1:1 cars, where people would fit electronic ignition etc in classic cars. The way I see it is that it's totally upto the person who owns the car/vehicle, it's theirs and they can do what they want 👍 . If I owned a vintage car and fitted an ESC and someone tried to give me a "telling off" , I would certainly tell them where to go and mind their own business. 😂👍

Completely agree. Which is why I stated :

2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I really don't mind how any of us enjoy this hobby. Want to put an ESC, Lipo and brushless in your vintage Hotshot? Go for it. Doesn't bother me. There's no "right" way to have fun.

If anything, I've witnessed bewilderment in the other direction for not using modern gear rather than rabid restorationist demanding everything be period correct.

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Consider this;

Had lipo's, esc's and brushless motor's were available back then, then they would of been utilised by manufacturers.

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Having raced in the late 90's , the motor maintenance was a nightmare tbh. The battery up keep ridiculous. But ....... that said, I still have a soft spot for brushed motors (just not the cheap generic rubbish we see today) .

Personally if I had a vintage runner I would love to run it in old radio gear and old tech. 👍 . Maybe have an ESC though 🤔😂

James.

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I can say with absolute conviction, i have never owned an ESC in my life. :)

J

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One of my M38 runs a mechanical speed control, but the others all run modern electronics.  Reason for me is simple.. I don't want the car to glitch and crash on its own because I enjoy driving all of them after full restore.

The only pre-2.4GHz radio I trust is my JRPropo R1 with a PCM receiver.  I was thinking I should run that, but that radio is not era correct anyway so decided to run my 2.4GHz for safety and convenience.  

I do not trust this thing.. 

IMG_Sep82021at52322PM.jpg.aab7fc5d70599ce3eb634fd6ac94e66a.jpg

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I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, the "feel" of a mechanical speed control is part of the nostalgic experience: using forward-to-reverse as brakes as gently as you can, remembering not to run too long at low speed, picking the car up by the bumper so your fingers are well away from the resistor, that sort of thing. Ditto with old radios; there is something "right" about the sight of a long whip antenna coming out of those old cars, and the heft of an old transmitter loaded down with eight AA batteries, that completes the experience.

But then again, 2.4g radios and plug-and-play ESCs have taken out a lot of the worry of the hobby. I never had much of a glitching problem with 75mhz radios, and only occasional blips with 27, but the possibility is always there, as is a "hung" wiper arm on an MSC (though Tamiya MSCs are not prone to this).

I sort of go case-by-case with the vintage cars. My Blackfoot uses an MSC and 75mhz radio, because it came with them and they work fine. My Cox Bandido still uses its Cadet 27mhz radio, but the MSC was toast, so I replaced it with an early '90s Duratrax ESC, just to keep it kinda-sorta vintage. The Kyosho Progress I'm restoring still has its "spot-welder special" MSC, barely used, and I intend to use it, because that car won't see much wheel time anyway. That weird purple Striker I bought last year has a full Futaba 75mhz radio setup in it, along with the original MSC and a plug-in external BEC, the kind that's built into the on/off switch. I'm going to preserve it all , if it all still works.

For RC10s/Ultimas/other racy cars that may have come with an MSC but nobody would have used it, I like using older ESCs, which are surprisingly robust; I've only had a few that didn't work or couldn't be fixed. They also get period brushed motors, but only stock motors: I have a couple of Trinity Green Machines and Midnights in various cars, but most of them just have a 540.

And brushless motors and lipo batteries have no place in anything built before 1995. You can disagree if you want, but you're wrong. For re-res, all bets are off, and you can find out the hard way that they're not built for that kind of power. But be nice to the actual vintage stuff, please.

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2 hours ago, Willy iine said:

One of my M38 runs a mechanical speed control, but the others all run modern electronics.  Reason for me is simple.. I don't want the car to glitch and crash on its own because I enjoy driving all of them after full restore.

The only pre-2.4GHz radio I trust is my JRPropo R1 with a PCM receiver.  I was thinking I should run that, but that radio is not era correct anyway so decided to run my 2.4GHz for safety and convenience.  

I do not trust this thing.. 

IMG_Sep82021at52322PM.jpg.aab7fc5d70599ce3eb634fd6ac94e66a.jpg

Yeah I'm the same as you! I have an original wild willy with the original msc and I use it in my back garden (I think you guys call it the back yard?) And it has all the period radio gear but OMG the glitches I get as soon as I put a 7.2v nimh hump pack in it makes it uncontrollable but if I put a shorty lipo in its completely fine? Likewise with my blitzer beetle metallic edition it to is original MSC and radio gear but it's fine with a 7.2v Nimh's in? I think it's just deterioration of radio gear!

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I like to experience the vintage chassis with modern electronics so I don't have to worry about thirty year old electronics causing any issues that could damage the car. It's the same reason that my vintage tires only do shelf duty.

Also, I have an awesome radio, a great charger, and stacks of LiPos, so if I don't have to buy more stuff/have even more clutter, that's an additional bonus.

I got enough of the vintage electronics back in the day, and I just don't want the hassle, really. If it adds to someone's enjoyment of the hobby to fool around with old electronics and battery technology, they should definitely do it. Everyone enjoys different aspects of the hobby.

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I used to feel that you had to retain the full vintage feel and if you added new stuff then you were somehow ruining it. My 959 had the Tamiya CRP when I built it and my Hilux had original servos and the MSC and both ran with period Futaba radios… but frankly modern ESCs, Lipo’s (for length and consistency of run, not punch) and 2.4ghz just make the car so much more runnable and get-in-and-driveable, so nowadays I am a convert.

I suppose it is the same with my 1:1 1988 BMW E30. I would not mess with the original paint, interior, BBS wheels, suspension etc, but I most definitely have a modern radio (Continental do one that looks old school) because I prefer to use Spotify on my phone (I don’t make mix tapes anymore!) and hands free calls. The truth is, it is a better experience every time I head out.

The looks and the 80’s handling are what I want in both cars, but 2020’s electrics mean I get to enjoy the looks and handling in both more often and with less hassle.

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My restored 1983 Sand Rover has got the original MSC, so it needs a 4xAA receiver pack, but the radio is a modern 2.4G one. The original MSC is still in good condition and is reliable and doesn't get too hot - it uses wire coil rather than ceramic resisitors. I use a 7.2V Nimh hump-pack, this old car doesn't need Lipos.  It only gets driven very gently though, the B gear has missing teeth so it skips a lot. If I could replace that gear it would get more running. It's a fun car to drive, and back in it's day it was quite a competitive car on the local track, despite the primitive suspension it was fairly well planted after jumps.

I wouldn't use a vintage radio (if I had one) - too much risk from interference and glitching to be using with a fragile old car.

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I think the analogy with 1:1s is fine, up to the point that you consider that a switch to a completely modern set of electronics is so cheap, fast and reversible.

In that context, these 'improvements' are appealing and do no harm (until you total your prized vintage runner with a 4s brushless monster setup!).

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MSC's are the work of the Devil!!

Well maybe not but I did live through that era so I don't feel I need to use them to get the full vintage experience.

I guess with my vintage and re-re cars I do them up to something close to what in 1:1 cars is called resto-mod.

So ESC's all the way and 2.4ghz radios. I'm not particularly picky about batteries. I have some Nimh and a bunch of LiPo's, whatever fits and is charged.
I like to use brushless motors but a heap of my cars have brushed motors and I love the old vintage brushed motors.

I guess whatever is fun.

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Another great topic and I'm one of the guilty ones :unsure:  I was young when I got into RC the first time around (89-94 or so) and remember all to well the MSC, Nicd batteries, slow chargers, etc.  To be honest it's probably why it never really stuck with me the first time (other than discovering 1:1 cars and girls, but that's a whole different thread...), it just felt like a lot of work and preparation all the time.  Racing was fun, but even that was a chore back in the day.  I do miss messing with brushed motors, but don't for a second miss non-2.4ghz radios or Nicd/Nimh battery packs.  

When I got back into the hobby in my early 30s I could not believe what I missed.  Obviously the 2.4 radios were the biggest revelation, but the batteries were right up there.  When I first got back into the hobby it was with crawlers and I could not believe I could go out and run the trails for nearly 2 hours without swapping a battery, just blew my mind.  Once I went lipo I never went back.  I did go a bit overboard with brushless motors and overpowering everything at first, but that has since subsided and I use brushed just as often, each has their purpose.  I do restore old RCs every once in a while but always use modern electronics & batteries, just makes life easier.

I'm not sure the comparison with 1:1 holds weight for me but I understand why you would make it.  Even though RC was a big part of my childhood (and now adulthood), I dont hold the same sense of nostalgia for RC that I do for 1:1 cars.  Not sure why, just the way it is.  Maybe because 1:1 cars just hit on more senses when you operate them and you can actually feel it?  With RC you're just pulling a trigger, why wouldnt you want it to react perfectly to your inputs every time?  With old cars a little off idle stumble or lope from a cam can be adjusted out with careful feathering of the throttle and it just gives more "feel" than pulling a trigger ever would.  Not to mention the feel of accelration, sound of engine/exhaust, and last but not least the smell. 

Maybe becuase I was heavily into RC when I was a kid that they just feel like toys to me and 1:1 cars are the real deal?  Might have a lot to do with timing and when someone got into the hobby?  Don't know, but an interesting topic.  

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1 hour ago, 87lc2 said:

Maybe becuase I was heavily into RC when I was a kid that they just feel like toys to me and 1:1 cars are the real deal?  Might have a lot to do with timing and when someone got into the hobby?  Don't know, but an interesting topic.  

For me, both RC and my hobby cars are toys to me.  :D   .. so are musical instruments.   It's funny how the current music scene also has a lot of 1980's influence.  I bought a Roland synthesizer called the Jupiter-X the other week which is a re-re of the Jupiter-8 which basically created the sound of the 80's (along with other synths of the time).   1980's was a great time for me.   My cars are modern, btw.. oldest is 2016, but has an old nostalgic JDM feel with rod based shifter, hydraulic steering and all.

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On 1/24/2022 at 4:58 PM, M 800STD said:

@Willy iine  I've got the R1 too, great Tx.

I use it with my boats, as in one corner of the lake the 2.4 systems gets a little glitchy.

Awesome.  Yeah, I raced touring cars with it back in the late 90's.  It is a great radio for sure.  I have the regular one and the gold limited edition (?) one.  :D 

IMG_2022-1-26-072439.jpg.3a7a3d78418b98eda6c5fa6383c2044a.jpg

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There is one other aspect to ESCs in old cars that needs mentioning... the low-speed whine. Pull the trigger on an old MSC and you hear the servo go "zhht" and the car starts moving. Try it with a modern high-frequency ESC, and... "eeeeeeeeeeee..." I don't know why, but that noise bugs me, and it's nice to have a few cars around that don't make it.

Plus, I never really had trouble with MSCs (except the one in the Marui Big bear), so I don't have the adverse reaction to it that some people seem to have. Tamiya MSCs were, and are, dead-reliable for me.

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3 hours ago, markbt73 said:

There is one other aspect to ESCs in old cars that needs mentioning... the low-speed whine. 

Almost forgot about that!  The Novak Rooster in my original RC10 does that, it does bring me back a bit whenever I drive it (which is almost never unfortunately).  

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Even way back then, when I started this hobby with my first Tamiya kit (late 1980s), I replaced the MSC with an ESC. Personally, I would never use an MSC ever again. Also I wouldn't voluntarily use any non-2.4GHz radio (I'm way too happy not to have that long antenna on my transmitter) any more. Also NiMH batteries... nah, not if I could fit a LiPo into the car. LiPos are simpyly way too convenient for me. But on the other hand, I'm not all that much into nostalgia in any form., so maybe that's just me.

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It's not distain on my part. 

I could say that reliable electronics are my means to prevent crashing an already aging car, but I admit that I have become spoiled by glitch free radio gear and fully proportional speed controls.

I do still use only NiMH batteries, if that's worth any redemption...

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It's not disdain,  I just don't have the need or desire. Perhaps because I'm not acting put of nostalgia, I didn't have a buggy as a kid, didn't cut my teeth racing at the Bundleford Town Center, etc.

Thay said, if you prefer a MSC, 27mhz radio, etc., then do it up.

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