Solid Axle Monstertrucks comparison

[87lc2 2666]

6 minutes ago, whahooo said:

 

I just ordered a Ford Body that reminded me of the Monstertrucks of my childhood. It was a Bigfoot, i think it had stripes on it.

Can you tell me if my Clod reassambles a "real world Monstertruck"? What Bigfoot # would that be? (i didn`t put the Stripes on the hood and the roof, becaus i think they do not look very good - sorry Team Bigfoot )

That looks like the 93 Ford body so it would be Bigfoot 10 that it most closely resembles.  Bigfoot 8 & 9 also ran the racer stripes, but they were 89 Ford bodies.  

[whahooo 465]

34 minutes ago, hayabusa95 said:

-How to measure/set/decide link and shaft lenght? (stock wb about 11in, 12.5in or less/more for better landings?)

I think, a longer Wheelbase is alwas a good idea for Stability (and Landings) , but the MST MTX seems to be qite balanced wheelbasewise.

I chose a longer Wheelbase for my Clod because between the front and the rear Tire is almost zero space, you couldn`t put a Tire between those 2 Tires.....

34 minutes ago, hayabusa95 said:

-Stock shock travels very limited(110m length). 100mm should be better, internal shocks ??

What lengh are the Stock shocks?

I´m a fan of long travel Shocks and a soft Setting, so you get some negatibe travel and a bit of Sag.

I think a Truck should sag 1 or2 centimeters if you put it on the Ground.

The Clod has 100 mm shocks and i use 120mm shocks, the Truck sags about 1,5 centimeters, so i have 15mm negative shocktravel and 5 mm additional dampening in comparison to the original shocks.

[87lc2 2666]

40 minutes ago, hayabusa95 said:

I have MST MTX-1 after glueing tires it wheelies a little indoor, no wheelies on snow  Just thinking about some upgrades shocks, alu pivot balls, wheel/tire set (w/foam insert), wb extension...

After reading replies decided to start from tires.

-How to measure/set/decide link and shaft lenght? (stock wb about 11in, 12.5in or less/more for better landings?)

-I like 2.6 wheels look, but not sure car can handles or not.

-Stock shock travels very limited(110m length). 100mm should be better, internal shocks ??

May I get your ideas please?

Barış

I dont have an MST, but a few others here do so I'm sure they can answer.  I can say that it probably will not last long with 2.6 wheels/tires, the axles are the same used for the smaller CMX/CFX crawlers.  If there is no interference and you can lower the truck I would recommend lower shocks, always best to get the truck as low as possible and the links parallel to the ground.  As for wheelbase that's up to you.  If the truck is stable with the current wheelbase no need to change it.  Longer wheelbase = more stability but less turning radius, shorter wheelbase = less stability but better turning radius.  

[hayabusa95 42]

@whahooo

They are 110mm. Working on truck for custom sponsor plate, after rebuild i can contact you for sag and travel. The sag quite similar on rear like yours, on front almost no sag. 

After first ride, i felt in love M/Ts .

48 minutes ago, whahooo said:

I´m a fan of long travel Shocks and a soft Setting, so you get some negatibe travel and a bit of Sag.

So am I.

26 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

as low as possible and the links parallel to the ground

They are not. I have measure for 100mm shocks, there are no place for full travel, might hit on esc/receiver plate. Attached belove. Im gonna try to lift that part.

Draw that on paint for better explanation. You know 3d designer on forum? 

44 minutes ago, 87lc2 said:

If the truck is stable with the current wheelbase no need to change it.  Longer wheelbase = more stability but less turning radius, shorter wheelbase = less stability but better turning radius.  

Finding sweet spot  

[Mr. Horsepower 16]

2 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

......... The key to monster truck racing is tires & foam, not suspension in my opinion.  Of course suspension matters, but tires/foam have a much bigger effect.  .....

 

Would you mind elaborating on why foam in particular has such an effect? Basically modifying the softness and/or compressibility of the tire?

[87lc2 2666]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Horsepower said:

Would you mind elaborating on why foam in particular has such an effect? Basically modifying the softness and/or compressibility of the tire?

Sure, happy to explain.  Most RC tires have open cell foam which is great for most uses where tires do not play a major role in suspension.  With monster trucks, the tires are a huge part of suspension and how the truck works.  With an open cell foam filling the entire tire you basically have double rebound when the truck lands, first in the tire and then in the suspension.  This makes for a pretty unsettled and unpredictable truck after landing.  What I've learned is that you need to eliminate this dual rebound effect and use either the tires or suspension, not both.  Each works well in particular applications. 

For a modern (shaft driven) truck with weight in the chassis and a good amount of suspension travel you want the shocks to do the work.  This is where cutting foams and closed cell foam comes into play.  For my sport & pro mod trucks I either used a cut open cell foam or closed cell foam that is about .75" - 1" smaller than the tire diameter.  This leaves an air gap between the foam and tire that will soak up the initial shocks of the landing.  By the time the tire hits the foam the suspension starts working and works as designed without the tire being much of a factor.  This is best with hard closed cell foam (suspension will do ALL of the work), but works well with open cell foam as well, but the air gap is critical. 

For Clod based trucks I have found that letting the tires do most of the work is a good way to go.  This is simple, no foam and huuuge air vent holes in the rim.  I usually run 4 quarter inch holes in each wheel with no foam and let the tire do the work.  With the stock friction shocks having hard positive rebound the tires can soak up the landing and you can be on the throttle immediately after landing.

 

This is just what I've found through my experience and it has worked well for me.  If you're not looking to custom cut foam I would highly recommend the Crawler Innovations Dueces Wild 2.6" monster truck foam, they are perfect.  I run them in a few of my trucks.  I promise the first time you land a truck with closed cell foam you'll see exactly what I'm talking about, it's night and day compare to traditional foam.  The truck won't even lift a tire under a hard landing and you can power out immediately, a real game changer and the best money you can spend on a solid axle truck.

 

 

[Mr. Horsepower 16]

Very interesting and great info- thank you!

[87lc2 2666]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Horsepower said:

Very interesting and great info- thank you!

No problem, just what I have found to work well.  Hope it helps someone.  Makes a world of difference when you get the truck right.  For the classic Clod experience, be sure to keep the friction stocks and small air holes in the wheels for maximum bounce   

[whahooo 465]

10 hours ago, whahooo said:

That are generic 120 mm china cheapo shocks. There are the same shocks from different Brands in multiple colors

https://www.amazon.de/Crawler-AXI03007-Metall-Stoßdämpfer-Öldämpfer/dp/B09NBMNG17/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=1OW8AAXROLYFL&keywords=120%2Böldämpfer&qid=1643138547&sprefix=120%2Böldämpfe%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-3&th=1

I think i`ve got a Set of 4 for around 20 Bucks. They came with 8 hard and 8 soft Springs so you can use a Dualrate Setup. I use 2 Soft Springs on each shock and use 120mm shocklength. With that extended Wheelbase and angled shocks it`s a good setup, but i think 110mm and straight shocks would be better.

You will need Green Slime to set them up, because they are leaky and the O-Rings aren`t standard Tamiya Size ones, so you can`t use red or TRF O-Rings.

There are also "Piggyback" looking Shocks, the "piggyback" are just for looks. Maybe i get theese for my next clod that is coming to me sooner or later.... (i have some sort of addictionproblem.....)

https://www.amazon.de/AWEAJVI-Stoßdämpfer-Öldämpfer-Effektive-Stoßdämpfung/dp/B09FK1ND4L/ref=sr_1_24?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=120%2Böldämpfer&qid=1643139030&sr=8-24&th=1

 

I would also be interrested how these shocks work:

https://www.ebay.at/itm/143713306845?hash=item2175fb08dd:g:UMEAAOSw-h1hNt1O

8 of these would cost about 40 Bucks. and i like the look of internal spring shocks.

 

[87lc2 2666]

8 hours ago, whahooo said:

 

I would also be interrested how these shocks work:

https://www.ebay.at/itm/143713306845?hash=item2175fb08dd:g:UMEAAOSw-h1hNt1O

8 of these would cost about 40 Bucks. and i like the look of internal spring shocks.

 

Not well for a monster truck.  The only monster trucks I use internal spring shocks on are leaf sprung trucks and I let the tires do the suspension work.  Have them on my Juggernaut and SCX10 leafers since they have a better scale look than coilovers.  I use them on crawlers a lot for the scale look as well since super smooth shocks don't matter than much for mudding/crawling. 

[whahooo 465]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:56 PM, 87lc2 said:

Not well for a monster truck

Do you mean they generally do not work?

I have a Carolina Crusher lookalike Clod in Mind.... it would love to get some of theese sleek looking shocks and use multible of them per Wheel.

 

 

PS:

There was a Member with real Car lookalikes made from Clods, he had an awsome Kong, Thunder Chicken etc.

I would love to get all of the replica Cars in the first Post. (Do we have an Spoilerfunction to hide Photos under a "Button"?)

[87lc2 2666]

They have a very small bore and do not offer a lot of damping when jumping the truck.  They work well on crawlers and leaf spring trucks (I have them on my Juggernaut), but don't have anywhere near the performance of a big bore coilover shock.  They're also not the greatest quality, not very smooth and don't hold oil very well.  Can only fill them halfway with oil anyway, any more than that and they lock up.  

[ad456 331]

@87lc2 how would you rate the mad force/USA-1 as a SAMT general basher?(not Traxxas/Arrma style bashing!).

I’ve got an axle from one and it seems stout so was thinking to grab a USA-1 as a kinda reliable truck for a bit of beach/mud machine. It’ll get a good kicking but will be sensible(ish). 
The design is a bit odd but like the idea of a truck that’s been around for a while, much as the clod has so parts aren’t hard to find. Plus the design seems to lend itself to bashing more than scale/racing performance.

I’m not enamoured with the SMT or the LMT either as the axles both seem to have issues on the both of them and I have nearly all the Tamiya’s in my stable already. 
 

[87lc2 2666]

34 minutes ago, ad456 said:

@87lc2 how would you rate the mad force/USA-1 as a SAMT general basher?(not Traxxas/Arrma style bashing!).

I’ve got an axle from one and it seems stout so was thinking to grab a USA-1 as a kinda reliable truck for a bit of beach/mud machine. It’ll get a good kicking but will be sensible(ish). 
The design is a bit odd but like the idea of a truck that’s been around for a while, much as the clod has so parts aren’t hard to find. Plus the design seems to lend itself to bashing more than scale/racing performance.

I’m not enamoured with the SMT or the LMT either as the axles both seem to have issues on the both of them and I have nearly all the Tamiya’s in my stable already. 
 

It would be fantastic for general bashing.  It's the only solid axle truck I own that I will drive with anger if the mood strikes    My only gripe with it is the non-scale look, but if that doesn't bother you you'll absolutely love it.  The new USA-1 version looks nice with the wheel/tire setup and USA-1 body.  If I didn't already have my old version I'd probably pick one up. 

The only issues I had with my MF was the front driveshaft popping out (common issue, fixed with a bit of fuel tubing in the drive cup), and breaking knuckles.  The knuckles are cheap pot metal but luckily they are inexpensive and easy to replace, probably also save anything more expensive being broken acting as the weak point.  The steering is pretty poor, but for bashing it's fine.  I have a Thunder Tech axle mounted servo and it improved things dramatically. 

Overall I would kive the MF two thumbs up for your uses, it's a really nice (and tough) truck.  Hope this is helpful.  

[ad456 331]

@87lc2 that’s extremely helpful!(and quick!).  Your feelings echo everything I’ve felt about the truck since it came on my radar years ago when in it’s mad force incarnation, just never had the guts or cash to put down on one.

I’m planning on adding 4ws so that’ll sort the steering. I’m planning it for the “run in anger” truck of the fleet and I like sensible weak points on a truck.
 

Looks like an expensive Friday but I’ve apparently just overcome some imaginary hill and am now on the downward slope I’m told so it’s definitely time to burn some money I feel!

[87lc2 2666]

Awesome!  Be sure to post when you get it and let us know what you think.  That USA-1 version is really nice looking, like the updates they made.  Might get a set of those wheels & tires for mine.  That's probably my biggest complaint with my old version, the 3.8 size wheels and tires look terrbile compare to proper 2.6 wheels & tires. 

[ad456 331]

I’ll update for sure when I get it. Looks like a truck that needs very little in the way of upgrades too which is nice when compared to nearly every other SAMT on the market.
The odd shock angle will likely negate any need for sway bars and I think they changed the front shaft you mentioned too so that’s a bonus. I really don’t wanna bash that nice body but finding something to use instead might be tricky. Hopefully an HPI Savage one might fit the bill. 

There’s also a set of Jumbo Kongs kicking around here that I might try some mischief with!

[87lc2 2666]

Yea, most likely no upgrades needed.  Sway bars not needed either which is nice.  For a body the JConcepts 12.3" crawler bodies work well you just need to cut the wheels wells out like a real monster truck.  I plan on a new body for mine soon and that's probably what I'll go with (82 K10, 79 F250, etc).  The Savage bodies should probably work also.  

[whahooo 465]

You are talking about Swaybars and Shockangles.....

 

How do the Angle of the shocks affect the Bodyrolling?

I installed "Swaybars" to my Clodbuster because i love soft shocks on the Clod, because the Chassis has no weight at all, but then the Body did started to wobble like a drunken Clown when i was cornering and the Car did not drive straight at all.

With the Sway Bars it is kinda sorted, but i i could affect it with shockangles that would be awesome.

 

I  love the Looks of Vertical schocks or "V shaped" Shocks. But if the angled shocks give a better performence i would try that...

[ad456 331]

@whahooo my theory is that since the bottom ends of the shocks spaced wider (when looking from the front of the truck) they should absorb more body roll than the more scale look of the Clod with its vertical shocks.

The axles on the USA-1 are a lot wider(12”) than the Clod’s axles(9.75”) and the shocks are mounted just inside the knuckles whereas on the Clod the shocks are mounted an inch(?) in from the knuckles on it. I doubt it’s possible to replicate it on the Clod without major mods.

This will likely not be so effective when more power is added as I’ve seen that Kyosho did release a sway bar system for the Mad Crusher version. This is maybe to tame any torque twist.

This is all just my brain farting away and is no way meant to be fact. I’ll find out if I’m wrong when I get the truck in hand and get some drive time with it.

[Badcrumble 4204]

Thanks @ad456 for the explanation. I wasn't sure about the damper position on my monsterised CR-01, having replaced the stocks ones for some 90mm coilovers. Now I will at least give them a try.

[ad456 331]

So, truck was ordered last Thursday and appeared Wednesday. Ordered from MB models and they only took a £5 for postage!! Hats off to them. 

Opened it up today and wow! Class truck, looks the part and has a nice heft to it. Will update once I’m over whatever illness my kid brought back from nursery for us all. 

[ad456 331]

I had a half an hour with this when my lad was at nursery this morning. I only had a 3s at storage charge but it’s pretty mental even at that compared to what I’m used with. 

I took it to the kids park a few doors up from me and it was soaking wet grass and still the truck just flew up the steep banks and jumped pretty well in the ruts at the bottom.

Damage wise, the back bumper seems to like getting caught on rolling and ripped the rear quarter on the body. Patched it up with off cuts of Hydrogel from the screen protector machine at work and removed the “land anchor” bumper. No other damage, just a popped rod on the steering from bad driving.

No serious complaints on this so far, must tweak the esc brakes a bit I think, doesn’t stop as quick as I’d like, tighten the servo saver a bit and the slipper too to see if it sharpens it a bit. 
 

I think this thing is awesome, chuffed with it and seems like it’ll soak up a lot of abuse. 

[87lc2 2666]

Glad you like it!  They are pretty awesome.  On 4S they really start to get fun...closest thing I'll ever have to one of those 6-8S Traxxas/Aarma monstrosities and its still a solid axle truck which is so much cooler.  

I only made two upgrades on mine if I remember correctly and the steering was definitely one of them, what were they thinking with that linkage?  I installed a Thunder Tech servo mount on the axle and it made the truck even better to drive, much more precise steering.  

[ad456 331]

I absolutely love that thing, the Cheshire Cat hasn’t got a scratch on my smile when I’m driving the truck. Its pure mental!
I’ve not been brave enough to go 4s yet but I’m sure my pair of 2s Zippy 60c 5900mah should be up to the job. Can’t help but feel that’s when I’ll start breaking things, hehe. 

The steering linkages aren’t terrible on mine but I was expecting Clod level uselessness from how people talk about the Mad Force and it’s certainly better than that. I don’t see anyone making an axle servo mount just now but I’ll keep my eyes peeled and weigh up the cost. 

My only upgrades just now are maybe the esc, I simply want something with more settings to meddle with(turbo, boost and possibly curves if my wallet can take that cost), and maybe a different Tx/Rx, which is just a quick “chuck in a flysky rx” job and use my GT3c. I will say the Kyosho one is really nice for an rtr, makes my GT3c feel like it came out of an xmas cracker