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alvinlwh

BL ESC programming for a beginner

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So I finally got a real brushless system with a program card instead of just using the TBLE. It is a SkyRC Toto TS50 but the make/model probably don't matter. Need some explanation of the settings that can be made. Some are pretty obvious, some are not, to me. I had a look online and frankly, cannot understand much. 

The items I need to know about are:

Punch rate switch point 

1st stage punch rate

2nd stage punch rate

TH Input curve

Drag brake

Initial brake

Brake rate switch point 

1st stage brake rate

2nd stage brake rate 

Brake input curve

Boost timing

Boost start RPM 

Boost end RPM

Boost line slope

Boost constraint by TH

Turbo timing 

Turbo activation method

Turbo full TH delay 

Turbo start RPM 

Turbo engage slope

Turbo deactivate slope

Thanks. 

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I haven't seen some of the options that your ESC has, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

Punch rate switch point - Throttle position where the ESC switches punch level- 

1st stage punch rate - motor startup/acceleration rate for the first part of the specified punch switch point

2nd stage punch rate - same as above but for stage 2 

TH Input curve - similar to throttle exponential, but programmed to the ESC

Drag brake - How much brake is applied when the throttle is in the neutral position/coasting. I typically run 0-20% for most of my models, but 65-100% for crawlers

Initial brake- how much brake force is applied when the brakes are first applied 

Brake rate switch point -same as the punch rate except for brakes

1st stage brake rate- same as punch rate

2nd stage brake rate - same 

Brake input curve - Exponential rate but for the brakes

Boost timing - additional ESC timing in a specified RPM range

Boost start RPM - RPM start point for additional timing 

Boost end RPM - RPM end point for additional timing 

Boost line slope - Exponential rate for how the extra timing is applied 

Boost constraint by TH - Don't know

Turbo timing- additional ESC timing after a time delay at full throttle (effectively the same as boost timing but only at 100% throttle instead of being RPM activated)

Turbo activation method - Don't know, maybe the manual explains this better?

Turbo full TH delay - time delay for the additional timing to be added  

Turbo start RPM - Might be redundant with the boost timing? 

Turbo engage slope - Never seen this on an ESC before

Turbo deactivate slope- same

 

Really the only thing I'd adjust is the drag brake to your liking. I'd just disable everything else to start with. The boost and turbo options are pretty much only for racing and you can kill motors with it pretty easily if you aren't careful. 

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3 minutes ago, Bash said:

I haven't seen some of the options that your ESC has, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

Thanks for taking your time to do such a detailed reply. Much appreciated. 

If you don't mind, some futher questions. 

4 minutes ago, Bash said:

Punch rate switch point - Throttle position where the ESC switches punch level- 

1st stage punch rate - motor startup/acceleration rate for the first part of the specified punch switch point

2nd stage punch rate - same as above but for stage 2  

Brake rate switch point -same as the punch rate except for brakes

1st stage brake rate- same as punch rate

2nd stage brake rate - same 

These refers to the stick/trigger position on the TX right? But what exactly is "punch"?

8 minutes ago, Bash said:

Initial brake- how much brake force is applied when the brakes are first applied

How does this differs from the 1st 2nd rates above? 

10 minutes ago, Bash said:

Boost timing - additional ESC timing in a specified RPM range

How does this differs or is affected by timing on the motor itself? 

Once again, thank you for your time. 

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You can download the SkyRC USB Link/Skylink (V2.09) program into your computer or the SkyRC ESC link into your phone for better usage. Connect the ESC to program card to computer/phone. It should give you more setting options and easier to adjust any parameters at the rate of your choice. You can also save different settings.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.skyrc.escwifi

https://www.skyrc.com/downloads/

OopDu7hh.jpg

I'm personally using the Skylink on my Toro ESCs. I currently have two TS160 and will be adding a TS120 next month. Once you've made your setting choice, it also automatically be saved into your programbox.

Hope this helps.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

You can download the SkyRC USB Link/Skylink (V2.09) program into your computer or the SkyRC ESC link into your phone for better usage. Connect the ESC to program card to computer/phone. It should give you more setting options and easier to adjust any parameters at the rate of your choice. You can also save different settings.

Will be doing that later on but don't think will work with a phone as I did not get something with BT or WiFi. 

Also, want to know what each each setting does before changing anything. 

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2 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Will be doing that later on but don't think will work with a phone as I did not get something with BT or WiFi. 

Also, want to know what each each setting does before changing anything. 

There are so many settings that you can experiment with. From Motor direction, running mode (forward/brake/reverse), temperature cutoff, voltage cutoff, brake rate, to enabling the boost and turbo. I really like the turbo and boost. As it gives that extra punch when the motor reaches a certain RPM (depends on your preferred setting). I have tried different settings to see which one suits my car and my driving style. The default setting I believe has disabled turbo and boost. Aside from enabling them, you can adjust the timing on how early or late you want these functions to activate. I didn't adjust the timing on the motors themselves but did on the ESCs instead. 

Qai6TMBh.jpg

As seen below, the temp protection can also be set on both the ESC and motor.

30q3Pukh.jpg

I'm very happy with these Toro ESCs. The reason why I am slowly upgrading my kits to brushless system. Easier maintenance, more setting options, more powerful and economical in the long run.
 

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1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Thanks for taking your time to do such a detailed reply. Much appreciated. 

If you don't mind, some futher questions. 

These refers to the stick/trigger position on the TX right? But what exactly is "punch"?

How does this differs from the 1st 2nd rates above? 

How does this differs or is affected by timing on the motor itself? 

Once again, thank you for your time. 

1- It is referring to the throttle position on the Tx, yes. Punch is how quickly the motor accelerates from a standstill- Higher value = faster acceleration.

2- Initial brake is only when the ESC first detects that you are applying brake. After that the 1st and second rates would apply

3- The additional timing is added through the ESC, and is not affected by any physical timing on the motor. 

Let me know if you want any additional clarification on any of these points or if you have any additional questions, always happy to help.

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3 minutes ago, Nicadraus said:

There are so many settings that you can experiment with. 

Yes, there are so many settings that I felt kind of overwhelmed. The other BLs I have is an Orion Vortex dDrive and it only has about 5 settings or the TBLE with next to nothing. 

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1 minute ago, Bash said:

Let me know if you want any additional clarification on any of these points or if you have any additional questions, always happy to help.

Thanks, you are plenty of help for me to get started. I will experiment some and get back if I have anymore questions. 

Much appreciated. 

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One thing with endbell timing, boost and turbo, its culmulative. If you normally have say 40deg timing on the endbell, then set another 15deg from boost, that effectively gives you 55deg, and all the heat that goes with it.

When you do play around with boost, drop the endbell timing, say from 40deg to 25deg, then put say 20deg of boost timing in. You get the benefit of having lower timing for low rpm, and more timing for high rpm rather than the compromise of having to set timing for all rpm.

Also, turbo is usually only for very short bursts when racing as it normally comes on after a few seconds at full throttle, ie if you were racing on the main straight but nowhere else on the track.  If you're driving in a carpark you'll probably be on full throttle a lot. So take that into account when setting boost and turbo as well. You don't want to end up running most of the time at very high total timing values as it will create a lot of heat.

 

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14 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

One thing with endbell timing, boost and turbo, its culmulative. If you normally have say 40deg timing on the endbell, then set another 15deg from boost, that effectively gives you 55deg, and all the heat that goes with it.

When you do play around with boost, drop the endbell timing, say from 40deg to 25deg, then put say 20deg of boost timing in. You get the benefit of having lower timing for low rpm, and more timing for high rpm rather than the compromise of having to set timing for all rpm.

Also, turbo is usually only for very short bursts when racing as it normally comes on after a few seconds at full throttle, ie if you were racing on the main straight but nowhere else on the track.  If you're driving in a carpark you'll probably be on full throttle a lot. So take that into account when setting boost and turbo as well. You don't want to end up running most of the time at very high total timing values as it will create a lot of heat.

OK, noted. 

With timing, turbo and/or boost, do I still keep to the published FDR recommended for a particular motor, say 4.8 to 6.0 or do I have to adjust for that? 

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56 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

OK, noted. 

With timing, turbo and/or boost, do I still keep to the published FDR recommended for a particular motor, say 4.8 to 6.0 or do I have to adjust for that? 

Yes you do need to adjust the FDR, I would use the upper end of the range with turbo and boost.  It adds another element to how you want the car to perform.  With blinky running (ie no turbo or boost) you have motor timing and FDR.  With this, you have those plus boost plus turbo, so you get a much better result in the end, but it can take some playing around with.

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1 minute ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Yes you do need to adjust the FDR, I would use the upper end of the range with turbo and boost.  It adds another element to how you want the car to perform.  With blinky running (ie no turbo or boost) you have motor timing and FDR.  With this, you have those plus boost plus turbo, so you get a much better result in the end, but it can take some playing around with.

OK will get some spurs and pinions to try out. Thanks. 

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17 hours ago, Nicadraus said:

You can download the SkyRC USB Link/Skylink (V2.09) program into your computer or the SkyRC ESC link into your phone for better usage. Connect the ESC to program card to computer/phone. It should give you more setting options and easier to adjust any parameters at the rate of your choice. You can also save different settings.

https://www.skyrc.com/downloads/

I'm personally using the Skylink on my Toro ESCs. I currently have two TS160 and will be adding a TS120 next month. Once you've made your setting choice, it also automatically be saved into your programbox.

Hope this helps.

 

Downloaded and tried it. Seem to work although connection seems to be iffy. Now even more things to confuse me, turbo degree???

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:47 PM, Nicadraus said:

There are so many settings that you can experiment with. From Motor direction, running mode (forward/brake/reverse), temperature cutoff, voltage cutoff, brake rate, to enabling the boost and turbo. I really like the turbo and boost. As it gives that extra punch when the motor reaches a certain RPM (depends on your preferred setting). I have tried different settings to see which one suits my car and my driving style. The default setting I believe has disabled turbo and boost. Aside from enabling them, you can adjust the timing on how early or late you want these functions to activate. I didn't adjust the timing on the motors themselves but did on the ESCs instead. 

Qai6TMBh.jpg

As seen below, the temp protection can also be set on both the ESC and motor.

30q3Pukh.jpg

I'm very happy with these Toro ESCs. The reason why I am slowly upgrading my kits to brushless system. Easier maintenance, more setting options, more powerful and economical in the long run.
 

 

How was your experience with conneting the Progbox to PC? I had good problems first but cant remember, suddeny it worked. Have not tried since because off-season... ; )

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12 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Downloaded and tried it. Seem to work although connection seems to be iffy. Now even more things to confuse me, turbo degree???

Haha. Looks like you had connection problems as well? I cant remember what it was but something in the setup manual (or how-to) was unlogical...

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Tried it out and worked.

Starting the SW on PC.

Box to PC via USB. Box is on CONNECTED

ESC on motor and battery BUT NOT switched ON

Connecting Box to ESC via datacable. ESC CONNECTED

ESC starts automaticaly

Voila.

 

I think it was the ESC needs to be OFF when connecting. which I did not mentioned first.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Collin said:

Tried it out and worked.

Starting the SW on PC.

Box to PC via USB. Box is on CONNECTED

ESC on motor and battery BUT NOT switched ON

Connecting Box to ESC via datacable. ESC CONNECTED

ESC starts automaticaly

Voila.

 

I think it was the ESC needs to be OFF when connecting. which I did not mentioned first.

Actually my real problem, other than difficulties during first connection, is that it drops connection when connected, but it does reconnect again without any actions from me. 

Also, it cannot be on as no battery is connected (according to my instructions), just ESC to box and box to PC. 

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9 hours ago, Collin said:

 

How was your experience with conneting the Progbox to PC? I had good problems first but cant remember, suddeny it worked. Have not tried since because off-season... ; )

Never had a problem. Just make sure that the mini USB cable you're using is also for data and not just a changing cable.

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There's a few I've not seen before, but might just be named different.

As above, 'Punch' is how hard the car is punched up the backside ,when it sets off, low setting is like getting punched by a small child (mild launch) , high setting ,like getting punched by Mike Tyson (wheels spin/ back flip etc, but depends on motor, slipper etc).

Drag brake - % brake force in neutral, sometimes I set that ,to use as my initial brake, but if its slippy (ie wet astro) , I don't use the drag brake at all, to allow the car to free wheel if needed (especially 2wd), then linear brake upto 100% at full brakes (then maybe tweek it on the radio).

Boost & Turbo are a fine art , it maybe in my head, but seems that adding timing on the end bell, took some braking force away (more noticeable in 4wd), so I set that to zero, and just add the timing electrically. 

I use boost less now, I'm running a lower turn motors ( 6.5t in 2wd/ 2wd Truck ,4.5t in 4wd) , as its got enough grunt around 90% of the time, and just add some turbo for the straight. 

With boost, you can electronically set how much timing the motor gets at a certain starting rpm (eg,15° at 10,000rpm) ,then add timing (slope) at a set rate , (eg, + 8° every 0.2 secs) upto a finishing rpm and max timing (eg 25,000rpm with 30° ) ,it'll then not add any more timing, and stay at 30°, until you slow below 25k, or you accelerate upto the , Turbo rpm and/or full throttle which will add more timing (if you've got it set). 

You can almost double the KV of a motor with boost & Turbo, but can also cause damage with excessive heat.

Make a note of the stock settings, alter one (eg the brake settings)  , give it a drive and feel the difference.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Make a note of the stock settings, alter one (eg the brake settings)  , give it a drive and feel the difference.

This, is very useful advice. 

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