Terra Scorcher best for brushless?

[Boomerang89]

With all kind of cars meanwhile laying around in the house (df01, df03, SA, VQS) and browsing this forum on backgrounds on all cars got following impression.

All chassis mentioned will need all kind of hop-ups and modifications to be able to run hot brushless. Varying from putting metric full through screws and nuts on a df01 gearbox to prevent it from disintegrating , to putting slippers, different outdrives whatever on other cars.

Only Terra Scorcher chassis can deal with the power straight away? Only modification need is A5 part (not drive train related)?

Curious to know whether  this summarises it correctly.

[MadInventor]

Depends on the brushless. I ran a 4000KV system on a 9.6VNiMh in a vintage thundershot without any issues. Can't speak for the rest of them.

 

[Hobbimaster]

3 hours ago, Boomerang89 said:

With all kind of cars meanwhile laying around in the house (df01, df03, SA, VQS) and browsing this forum on backgrounds on all cars got following impression.

All chassis mentioned will need all kind of hop-ups and modifications to be able to run hot brushless. Varying from putting metric full through screws and nuts on a df01 gearbox to prevent it from disintegrating , to putting slippers, different outdrives whatever on other cars.

Only Terra Scorcher chassis can deal with the power straight away? Only modification need is A5 part (not drive train related)?

Curious to know whether  this summarises it correctly.

IMO, If you want to run a hot brushless set-up, unfortunately its not going to be in a Tamiya re-release. Most do not have proper slipper clutches, and gearbox's that are not designed to handle the extra power over a simple Tamiya Super Stock 21t brushed motor. It would be best to look at something Kyosho has re-released. All kits have slipper clutches, fully ball raced, sintered metal gears, and are updated, and marketed as brushless, lipo ready out of the box. I do have some Tamiya kits running brushless, but all are very conservative as to not stress the drive trains, or to impede the superb handling of 80's suspension technology.

 

[Frog Jumper]

I'm running a 3300kv BL with 7.4v Lipo in my Dragon.  No issues, except that its super fast...

Terry

 

[Juggular]

I would say the fun part of this hobby is testing.  If parts are available, why not try it?  If it breaks, you can replace parts. 

That said, true 3000-3500KV would be okay on loose surface like sand and dirt.  I'm not brave enough to try 4000KV with sticky tires on high-grip surface.  There have been people who broke drive cups and bent dog bones.  I'm with @Hobbimaster... I'm not comfortable with installing a high-torque brushless motors on 1980's chassis design.   

Most people get a steel pinion because that's the first thing to go.  13.5t or 3000KV is the upgrade that most people go for.  I'm more comfortable with Sport Tuned which is somewhat below that.  But it depends on the terrain.  If I were to run things on a wide open space, I'd go for 3000kv or so. 

 

[MadInventor]

1 hour ago, Juggular said:

I would say the fun part of this hobby is testing.  If parts are available, why not try it?  If it breaks, you can replace parts. 

That's why I put a 2000KV 1/8 brushless motor in my scratch built 6x6 truck with the King Hauler gearbox in it and then tried running it on 3 cell Lipo.   No damage to the gearbox, but the truck pulled wheelies changing from 1st to 2nd..... Some tamiya stuff is tougher than it looks. I ran the same 4000Kv system in the thundershot in a DF-02 with a  3 cell Lipo for the speed runs, and got 50mph plus out of it. I did eventually destroy the TT-01 speed gear set I'd put in it, but I was surprised it lasted as long as it did. DF-02 is gone now, and the 4000KV is in my re-re hotshot and run on a 2 cell Lipo. No issues yet, but I run it very infrequently so not really a fair test of reliability yet. (And I don't jump my buggies).

 

 

[Hobbimaster]

4 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

I'm running a 3300kv BL with 7.4v Lipo in my Dragon.  No issues, except that its super fast...

Terry

 

That's about what I run in my Tamiya's, 2800kv-3200kv range. When the OP said hot brushless system, I was thinking 6000kv+ range.

[Boomerang89]

And the specific question is, is this the best Tamiya off-road one to go brushless without needing to do a zillion upgrades.

Thinks for all feedback so far. Seems got a slight confirmation on it. Steel pinion of course needed, that is generic for every car though I think.

There is a ZX5 in the house as well, I'm just interested in the particular Tamiya case.

(Trying to justify to buy a Terra Scorcher, to put a Boomerang body on it and pretend I'm in my teens again. However if eg Grasshopper type drivetrain is more sturdy I'm happy to learn)

[Frog Jumper]

2 minutes ago, Boomerang89 said:

 

(trying to justify to buy a Terra Scorcher, to put a Boomerang body on it and pretend I'm in my teens again)

Oh, in that case, the TS will handle BL easily and will be the fasterest besterest coolerest car in your collection!

You should buy two...

Terry

 

 

 

[Snappy1]

I run a 10.5 in my VQS, no issues so far.

I run a 8.5 in my original TF Evo, only the rear screw mod done, the gearboxes take a fair while to crack.

I am about to build a re re Terra Scorcher, it will have a10.5  , and will handle it no problem 

 

[Boomerang89]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:16 PM, Frog Jumper said:

Oh, in that case, the TS will handle BL easily and will be the fasterest besterest coolerest car in your collection!

You should buy two...

Terry

 

 

 

Am a hoarder. let's try with one though:-)

[AlexB]

Bit old but I have 3000kv brushless with 2s lipo in my TS. Metal 15T pinion and A5 only mods so far. It's a lot of fun in grass or dirt parks and a bit too quick on tarmac. 

Main issue is getting the hard case lipo to fit into the slot, and was tricky to fit the esc with fan under the driver (managed it though)

[Toolmaker72]

Just having a read through.  If you are worried about the 540 sized brushless motor producing too much torque and potentially braking gearbox parts try fitting a smaller brushless motor.  I’ve been using a 2845 sized motor in the orv gearbox’s and it works a treat.  With a gearbox brace to stop it flexing I’ve been running a 3930kv motor and 3s battery geared lower using a 10 tooth pinion in a tamiya frog.  Goes fairly rapid for an old school design.   I did try the same motor and battery with a 17 tooth pinion and the car was uncontrollably.   As the motor is smaller it pulls less current so the controller is cheaper.  I tried the 30amp offering from hobbywing and it worked well.  Didn’t cut out with excess heat.    Run time is roughly 25 mins with a 2200mah battery on tarmac.  I’ve also tried a similar setup in a monster beetle.  A 2800kv motor this time but still the 2845 size. Gives 20k rpm at 7.4v or 30k rpm at 11.1v.   I can’t fit a smaller pinion as it uses a 10 tooth as standard.  Again worked brilliant.  The smaller brushless motor isn’t overkill but still superior in performance to regular fixed brushed motors.  
I would imagine if these smaller brushless motors are used in a 4wd buggy you would need a controller with a higher amp rating 60amp is the next one up.  Just gives a bit more headroom for the extra current needed for a 4wd buggy.   
 

    

[Toolmaker72]

Pictures below of the 2845 brushless motor and controller in my monster beetle. Again a gearbox brace but works lovely with original hex drive shafts.  The aluminium part on the front of the motor is an adapter to convert the securing holes to that of the 540 original motor.   On the frog chassis above I used the 360 brushed motor adapter from a grasshopper kit.  

[Willy iine]

I run a 380 sized BL (I think it was 2800KV so about 21000RPM) on my TA05 M-Four.  It's quite fast for the car and runs cool as there isn't much pinion options for the car as well.

 

As far as driving RC cars with hot motors, it also depends on HOW you drive.  Like on a real car, unless you drive minding what stresses the drive train, it is bound to break at some point.  If one drives the car mindfully without silly burnouts or sudden braking or directional changes, chances are the only thing that wears quickly is the kit pinion.  

[Toolmaker72]

11 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I run a 380 sized BL (I think it was 2800KV so about 21000RPM) on my TA05 M-Four.  It's quite fast for the car and runs cool as there isn't much pinion options for the car as well.

 

As far as driving RC cars with hot motors, it also depends on HOW you drive.  Like on a real car, unless you drive minding what stresses the drive train, it is bound to break at some point.  If one drives the car mindfully without silly burnouts or sudden braking or directional changes, chances are the only thing that wears quickly is the kit pinion.  

Very true in that driving style can either destroy moving parts or prolong the life of moving parts.  The frog chassis I used as a test rig,  I did wreck the car running a bigger pinion with a 3s (11.1v) battery.  Too much top speed for a short wheel and narrow wheel base.  I only managed two speed runs and the second one I lost control as it threw a rear tyre with lots of spins and end over flips.   Hence I can comfortably say the 10 tooth pinion set up is perfect for that chassis and gearbox (fitted with a gearbox brace) running a 3930kv 2845 brushless motor and 3s (11.1v) battery.