Considering a TD4 (no longer)

[Saito2 6686]

Aaaand...still considering the TD4, lol. going over the manual, there's things I like and things I don't and things I question, like how effective is all the sponge tape at keeping out dust/dirt? The one thing I took interest in was that video of it running with the new Optima Mid. The TD4 seemed more composed than the Mid so I guessing its performance is pretty good(?).  Ugh, so indecisive am I. The fact its a new design is both exciting (fresh new design to build) and daunting as new stuff generally doesn't turn me on. By the time one adds on the required diff nuts, front universals and slipper clutch, plus trying to track down the metal bevel gears (hoping the plastic ones would hold together with proper shimming, its a good bit of money to invest...almost enough to buy a 2nd Mid. 

[Willy iine 18805]

Honestly I would wait for the TD4 Super Egress.. which I am assuming is set to release maybe next year with all the revisions?    (just speculation). 

 

[Killajb 1546]

6 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Aaaand...still considering the TD4, lol. going over the manual, there's things I like and things I don't and things I question, like how effective is all the sponge tape at keeping out dust/dirt? The one thing I took interest in was that video of it running with the new Optima Mid. The TD4 seemed more composed than the Mid so I guessing its performance is pretty good(?).  Ugh, so indecisive am I. The fact its a new design is both exciting (fresh new design to build) and daunting as new stuff generally doesn't turn me on. By the time one adds on the required diff nuts, front universals and slipper clutch, plus trying to track down the metal bevel gears (hoping the plastic ones would hold together with proper shimming, its a good bit of money to invest...almost enough to buy a 2nd Mid. 

As someone who has both the TD4 and the newly released Optima Mid, in my opinion the TD4 is a more stable and capable vehicle.  Yes I purchased the pricey big bore dampers, sway bars, diff nuts and such.. but the price about evens out between the two.  The TD4 requires more maintenance to properly clean after a run for sure.  I run the same TBLM 10.5 motor in each with stock gearing and the Optima Mid accelerates faster, although maybe partially be due to a better esc in the Mid(GForce 120 vs HobbyWing QuicRun 120 in the TD4).  I'm not a hardcore track racer by any stretch of the imagination, but from back-to-back runs on the same surface w/ jumps and all, the TD4 is the better ride.

[GeeWings 2830]

@Killajb thanks for sharing. Like quite a few people I was initially intrigued by the TD4 but put off by the looks (how shallow I am) but I'm being tempted back more and more each time I read some hands-on impressions.

[Killajb 1546]

12 minutes ago, GeeWings said:

@Killajb thanks for sharing. Like quite a few people I was initially intrigued by the TD4 but put off by the looks (how shallow I am) but I'm being tempted back more and more each time I read some hands-on impressions.

So was I..   I hated that the "Avante" name was being used for something that appeared so.. un-Avante  in my opinion. I hated the box art colors.. well, hate is such a strong word, isn't it?  I very much disliked the way the thing looked from the factory.   But I was intrigued and I felt like I wanted a different experience. 

I honestly like it very much now.  Even if the car itself is far removed from the original Avante in aesthetics, the performance is very much what the original Avante was trying to do.  Driving it is very different to any other buggy I've owned, and despite not being a potential World Champion caliber car, I think it does quite well all-around.  It's just very stable and confidence-inspiring, and since I'm nowhere near a world champion caliber driver, it suits me fine.  Battery changes on the TD4 sucks, but I just run one battery and leave it in there and charge while it's in the car cooling off.  As far as looks, I strayed far from the box-art scheme and I like what turned up.

[Saito2 6686]

2 hours ago, GeeWings said:

Like quite a few people I was initially intrigued by the TD4 but put off by the looks (how shallow I am) but I'm being tempted back more and more each time I read some hands-on impressions.

 

2 hours ago, Killajb said:

o was I..   I hated that the "Avante" name was being used for something that appeared so.. un-Avante  in my opinion. I hated the box art colors.. well, hate is such a strong word, isn't it?  I very much disliked the way the thing looked from the factory.   But I was intrigued and I felt like I wanted a different experience.

Exactly how I feel. It wasn't until I saw someone mask the canopy different that I thought I might be able tolerate its looks. I do want to get my hands on that chassis to build though, lol. I am painfully slow and methodical at making decisions.

[moffman 5752]

I enjoyed building my TD4 and I take my hat off to tamiya for going back to the drawing board and producing 99% all new buggy (wheels tyres the exception) in the world we live in at present and yes it's never going to be a top shelf pure racing machine and I'm sure tamiya knew that when they developed it? Probably more designed for the local club racer? My issue with the TD4 is/was although it was a delight to build it kinda underwhelmed me nothing on the chassis or the build made me at any point think it was interesting (kinda dull) and I honestly don't say that lightly I say it with a very heavy heart when the TD2 astute arrived I was offered it for a very good price but I declined it for that reason! But I will be very interested in what tamiya do with this chassis in the context of the buggies that are definitely going to go on this chassis? The egress is definitely a safe bet for a future release! 

[DaveBuildsRC 210]

Think that was me who posted the black one with different canopy. anyway super egress! @Willy iine @Saito2

 

 

 

edited

[bRIBEGuy 3044]

20 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Honestly I would wait for the TD4 Super Egress.. which I am assuming is set to release maybe next year with all the revisions?    (just speculation). 

 

Super Egress would be cool.  It's unlikely to be feasible... but how cool would it be to see the TD4 drive & suspension systems paired with a double deck carbon chassis?!?!

In reality, a Super Egress would likely end up being the same as the Super Avante..... a really cool sounding tease, where we all just get mad that Tamiya made a good and modern buggy... and *******ized the look and name of a classic.  Which we would then buy and build anyway.   

[Saito2 6686]

11 hours ago, moffman said:

My issue with the TD4 is/was although it was a delight to build it kinda underwhelmed me nothing on the chassis or the build made me at any point think it was interesting (kinda dull) and I honestly don't say that lightly I say it with a very heavy heart when the TD2 astute arrived I was offered it for a very good price but I declined it for that reason!

Honestly, this is a great fear of mine. While I love fiber reinforced plastics, modern buggy construction relies solely on it. I still like seeing FRP and graphite bits. Every newer vehicle I've owned (like the TRF201X), while delighted with the new build, I've sold because it didn't grab me. I wish Kyosho re-res were more available as I'd likely just buy all of them and have the best of both worlds.

[isomer1 175]

I dunno. I finally have all of the parts together (bevel gears arrived a few days back). But the engineering is just so painfully bad.

1. Foam tape everywhere to keep dust debris out - with plenty of reports that it fails to do so.
2. Overly complex process to open up gearboxes for subsequent cleaning - with plenty of reports at how easily the screws strip
3. Painfully awkward steering / battery setup.
4. Outright bizarre choice of fasteners - mix of 2.6 and 3mm for no real reason. Official titanium screw set leaves out many of them - even though they are sold by Tamiya for other models.
5. Cap for adjusting the slipper is rubber-cemented in place (ugh).
6. Random screws to prevent dirt from packing in to unused screw holes.

Every time I open up the manual I just shake my head. It's just bad engineering at almost every step. Then I look over at the Arrma Typhon (ok admittedly it needs a better body shell) and think "these people have actual design experience."

That's what I wish we had - Arrma etc designed frames with Tamiya body shells. Just let them both do what they're good at.

[moffman 5752]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

Honestly, this is a great fear of mine. While I love fiber reinforced plastics, modern buggy construction relies solely on it. I still like seeing FRP and graphite bits. Every newer vehicle I've owned (like the TRF201X), while delighted with the new build, I've sold because it didn't grab me. I wish Kyosho re-res were more available as I'd likely just buy all of them and have the best of both worlds.

Yep this is the thing really if it don't grab your enthusiasm then I would wait and see in which direction tamiya go with this chassis @isomer1 has listed above some very good points above like the most odd being glueing the cap for the slipper adjustment (which I'd forgotten about) and my two diff nuts lasted all of 30 seconds before giving up but like I say I doffed my cap to tamiya for introducing a whole new buggy but it definitely has quite a few shortfalls which definitely need addressing before the next buggy arrives on the TD4 chassis?

[bRIBEGuy 3044]

16 minutes ago, isomer1 said:

That's what I wish we had - Arrma etc designed frames with Tamiya body shells. Just let them both do what they're good at.

I thought over-engineered quirkiness was what Tamiya did best?  

I too am guilty of an unbuilt TD4 in the basement, but almost everything bad about what I've heard about it also makes it endearingly "Tamiya".  To be honest... I don't want Tamiya to make hard-core bashers... I want them to make stuff that is different.  If you look at their general "iconic" buggy evolution, none of them are truly good...... they're all AWESOME in their own way... but that's sort of a quirky weird way at best.

Rough Rider --> HotShot --> Bigwig --> Thundershot --> Avante --> Egress --> Manta Ray --> Top Force --> Top Force Evo --> Other Stuff --> TD4

Who else would do a lay-down front shock setup with a spaceship body?  And then make a 2wd car on the same chassis?  Tamiya, that's who.  And everyone seems to love it... until they realize it's a Tamiya thru and thru.  Could it be better?  Sure.  But would we love these cars as much if they were?

Just my 2 cents.  Maybe one of these days I'll build my Super Avante and change my tune... 

[Saito2 6686]

Thanks @isomer1 for hitting the salient points, some of which I had concerns about just from going over the manual. I think the TD4 will be a pass for me at this time. I feel just like @moffman. Grateful Tamiya finally didn't spit out another TT02B, but I'll wait to see if some of the issues are addressed in the future before pulling the trigger. I'm way more tolerant of quirks and odd engineering in vintage cars. I've got my Avante re-re runner to build this summer yet anyway.

[redlinegw 59]

I am running and racing both the TD4 and the TD2, both cars are capable at a sportsman level for sure and with some more tweaking maybe become even better! I am running mostly outdoor offroad with real dirt and big jumps and the biggest struggle for me right now on the TD2 is getting the front suspension to have more droop and get the right dampening with the DT02 alloy shocks. I am going to try using the TD4 front suspension setup on the TD2 because I feel it is smoother. Both cars get a lot of interest even among the hardcore racers, they love seeing something different at the track. Working on them is a bit of a pain but once you get used to it its really not that bad. No regrets here at all!

 

[DaveBuildsRC 210]

Td2 seems like the way to go if you want to try the new chassis I thinks. Only needs two hop up’s a slipper clutch and one alloy diff but.

[moffman 5752]

9 hours ago, bRIBEGuy said:

I thought over-engineered quirkiness was what Tamiya did best?  

I too am guilty of an unbuilt TD4 in the basement, but almost everything bad about what I've heard about it also makes it endearingly "Tamiya".  To be honest... I don't want Tamiya to make hard-core bashers... I want them to make stuff that is different.  If you look at their general "iconic" buggy evolution, none of them are truly good...... they're all AWESOME in their own way... but that's sort of a quirky weird way at best.

Rough Rider --> HotShot --> Bigwig --> Thundershot --> Avante --> Egress --> Manta Ray --> Top Force --> Top Force Evo --> Other Stuff --> TD4

Who else would do a lay-down front shock setup with a spaceship body?  And then make a 2wd car on the same chassis?  Tamiya, that's who.  And everyone seems to love it... until they realize it's a Tamiya thru and thru.  Could it be better?  Sure.  But would we love these cars as much if they were?

Just my 2 cents.  Maybe one of these days I'll build my Super Avante and change my tune... 

You will definitely enjoy building the super avante because although its 95% plastic (which isn't really a problem) the quality of the plastic makes it very easy to build the problem I had is it didn't make me feel I wanted to build another one! Absolutely no idea why and quite expensive for what it really is but I do forgive tamiya for that because it's a new design and probably that doesn't come cheap?  And you are bang on with your analogy! I think everyone has the that sort of feeling when it comes to tamiya we all love the box arts and the rc guides with the cartoon illustrations and the sand scorcher dampers that do nothing at all to dampen the suspension the hotshot chassis which you have to practically strip the whole car to get at the electrics and tamiya's answer to that is put a little inspection hatch in that only an action man or if your in the USA a G.I Joe can get his hand in! So it's no surprise that this super avante has it's own quirky design features and long may it continue that's why I'm going to be very interested in what tamiya comes out with next on this chassis?

[manny 83]

The only thing holding me back on the TD4 is the body.  The chassis itself  has all the components neatly packaged and looks like it goes together in that quirky  (to borrow a term from you guys) Tamiya way  that we all love.   The body is an ill proportioned, fat bar of soap with the driver sitting so low, there's no way for him to see out!   LOL I know it's just a model but that's whats keeping me from getting this awesome car.

[GeeWings 2830]

7 hours ago, manny said:

The only thing holding me back on the TD4 is the body.  The chassis itself  has all the components neatly packaged and looks like it goes together in that quirky  (to borrow a term from you guys) Tamiya way  that we all love.   The body is an ill proportioned, fat bar of soap with the driver sitting so low, there's no way for him to see out!   LOL I know it's just a model but that's whats keeping me from getting this awesome car.

So many people (me included) share your opinion. Have a good look around though, people have done some amazing things just by changing the colour scheme. There are also a few really interesting examples where people have fitted different shells. 

[bRIBEGuy 3044]

18 hours ago, manny said:

The body is an ill proportioned, fat bar of soap with the driver sitting so low, there's no way for him to see out! 

[ThunderDragonCy 7876]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:44 PM, manny said:

The only thing holding me back on the TD4 is the body.  The chassis itself  has all the components neatly packaged and looks like it goes together in that quirky  (to borrow a term from you guys) Tamiya way  that we all love.   The body is an ill proportioned, fat bar of soap with the driver sitting so low, there's no way for him to see out!   LOL I know it's just a model but that's whats keeping me from getting this awesome car.

Totally agree. I am getting quite tempted by a TD2 or 4, but the bodies are gopping. And I can stand star dish wheels either. I would love to see some creative mounting of classic bodies. Even the spaceship canopy type ones like Saint Dragon have so much better proportions. 

[Saito2 6686]

I guess along with everything else, the fact I (and others) feel the TD4/2 got whacked upside the head with an ugly stick doesn't help matters. I've found over the years, if I plan on modifying something (particularly for looks) right out of the gate as a means to convince myself to buy it, I won't be happy with it in the end. Thusly I've decided to spend my money on a full-house, competition 4wd dirt-burner. With race-bred components, wrapped in an aerodynamic body shell and a buggy Tamiya has already pre-tuned for me. What is this marvelous buggy, you ask? Why, a Terra Scorcher! I quoted all the aforementioned facts from Tamiya's own Terra Scorcher promo, so it must be true.

[manny 83]

Terra Scorchers are sweet.

[Killajb 1546]

I dunno, looks are subjective and for sure everyone has their own taste.  

[BuggyGuy 1106]

I like the new body from Revive RC, so might get one of these: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc5kK0kqF8q/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

The new one from Team Azarashi looks good too, though not available in the UK yet