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Saito2

Considering a TD4 (no longer)

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This is most unlike me. I usually stick to vehicles in the first 100 but curiosity is slowly getting the better of me. Now that the TD4 has been in some folk's hands for a little bit, I have a few questions. I noticed in the pics, the smaller gear coming off the optional slipper is metal. Is this another case of shedding aluminum, like the gear in the DF01 (that we all usually replace with the all-plastic gear set) or is it made of better metal? I vaguely remember a comment about skipping bevel gears (driveshaft area). Any further issues with that? I'll be probably staying brushed. How's it turn? One thing I love about my Optima is it turns tight and sharp. I've read the steering lock isn't great in the TD4. Will front universals and shortening the steering stops help this? I understand it can eject stock front dogbones if one is not careful increasing steering lock. Any major weak spots or durability issues?  Also, I would guess this model will be around awhile. I don't want to spend the money on something that will disappear like the DB02.

I find it to somewhat hideous in appearance (but better the the TD2 Astute) but that's just my opinion. I considered re-bodying it but some of the paint schemes I've seen improve it so I might try that. Technically, I find it a fascinating model. Tamiya appears to have listened and attempted to give us what we want in a lot of areas. Bearings, hex hardware (not really something I care about personally), improved plastics and a typical quirky, Tamiya-esque design. I greatly thank them for that. As much as I carp about stamping out uninspired TT02Bs, this TD4 isn't that and I'm grateful. The TT02B has its place, but its nice to have a choice for a new 4wd buggy. Hop-ups will be limited to the upgraded diff nuts or swapping to gear diffs, a slipper clutch and front universals. 

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I have very similar feelings. When I saw the first video of it in action I was really excited. The more I saw it the less I liked the look of it aesthetically. But the appeal for me is to complete such an intriguing build and to have a runner with such readily available parts.

Like you I’ve warmed to it more as I’ve seen alternative paint schemes and somewhere I even saw pictures of one with an original Avante shell fitted (albeit customised and chopped).

I’m not in a great hurry though. I think I will let the dust settle, along with prices and see how I feel in a few months.

If you do go ahead I look forward to your impressions. 

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The car can look pretty good if you deviate from box art. The clear viewing panels are part of the problem as the lines of the car are focused around them. I painted mine in and happy with it looking less bulbous. Likewise you can paint the canopy with a different line which can look well. 

if you use the front universals and remove the steering limiters the turning circle is good. I wouldn’t worry about that. I didn’t have issues with mine popping dog bones.

Quality of the kit is great. That Metal gear is much better than the alloy idler in the ta01/DF01. I always use shims to remove any slop, so I did use some in the build.

I’d say it is robust for what it is intended for, seen the rear tower break and some ball joints but you can use the hardened type.

 

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@moffman did a different wheel on his and that completely changed the appearance of the car.  I mean it looked great.

I think it is the wheel color that gives it the distinct look that may appeal or not appeal to people. 

Personally I am not a buggy guy so I'd like to wait for the Super Egress if getting a TD4..  I just want the best just for the wow factor since I don't know anything.  :lol:

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3 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Tamiya appears to have listened and attempted to give us what we want in a lot of areas. Bearings, hex hardware (not really something I care about personally), improved plastics and a typical quirky, Tamiya-esque design. I greatly thank them for that. 

I'm not really a buggy fan (one Hornet versus multiple M chassis and Dual Hunters, WW2, etc) but picked up the TD4 for the reasons above.

Planning to build it this Spring and won't be box art. Really like some of the extended canopies on show recently.

I have Egress wheels too.

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1 hour ago, Busdriver said:

Nice build but havent run it yet. Don't want to get it dirty!!!!

Wait, what you said that?  I had to re-check the handle who posted this.   You always drive your freshly built nice custom cars outdoors!       I'm a bit surprised.  TD4 must be super out of this world nice in this case or super difficult to paint or something..  :lol:;)  jk

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Love to see someone put a truck shell on this and make a racing 4x4. Chassis looks nice, body less so.

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The steering is great if you take out steering limiters and use ujs in the front. As noted above, it looks way better in non box art. I switched mine to front and rear gear diffs with the slipper and have had no problems at all. As for overall negatives, the car is a pain to work on. If you want to access diffs, motor, or anything like that, it’s about 10+ screws each time. This might not sound like much but when you have to take them in and out every single time, it gets old. The screw holes are also very easy to strip so constantly taking the screws in and out is going to increase the likely hood of stripping the holes. I would get one if you can get it for cheaper than retail. It’s new and as you said, should have support for quite a while. Here’s mine. 

1B44E476-D8EB-42A5-9104-B40F621CA57F.jpeg

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From my experience I'd wait until they bring the TD4 out on another buggy and hopefully they will include the metal diff nut as standard I'm still waiting for a few of the optional parts to arrive before I rebuild it! the steering servo mounts are hopeless and I'm still waiting on another alloy diff nut and alloy arms for the front shocks (purely cosmetic) I've only used it for about 2 minutes then the diffs give up which is a bit annoying!

20220119_140040.jpg

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49 minutes ago, moffman said:

the steering servo mounts are hopeless

I've read its flexy in this area. There seems to be a way of mounting it on the other side of the chassis like the TD2 that helps(?) I do have to sell two buggies first to make room and everything's out of stock as usual nowadays, so I'm looking toward the future.

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3 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Wait, what you said that?  I had to re-check the handle who posted this.   You always drive your freshly built nice custom cars outdoors!       I'm a bit surprised.  TD4 must be super out of this world nice in this case or super difficult to paint or something..  :lol:;)  jk

But youve never seen a video of them actually driving!!!!!:ph34r:

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11 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

I've read its flexy in this area. There seems to be a way of mounting it on the other side of the chassis like the TD2 that helps(?) I do have to sell two buggies first to make room and everything's out of stock as usual nowadays, so I'm looking toward the future.

Yup, no flex on mine now 

6F396C40-2AD1-4603-879C-670AA078B6BF.jpeg

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I'm very impressed with the TD4 - I've not done my body yet, but alternative masking on the canopy makes a lot of difference to the looks from what I've seen (see posts at the end of the TD2 thread for examples).

You really need front UJs for the steering to behave well. I had secured some alternative top shaft gears but having inspected the stock setup (with clutch kit) I didn't feel the need to swap out to an alternative.

I'm using DF03 wheels on mine, which I prefer the look of. Mine will be a club racing car so have a few bits I've hopped up:

- DF03 damper kit (big bores are hard to get for a decent price at the mo)

- Stabilizer set

- Rear alloy suspension mount (allows adjustment of toe and squat).

- Slipper clutch

- TA06 oil filled gear diffs with steel internals and the alloy covers

- UJs all round

I swapped a few other small bits as well from my parts bin (some titanium screws, blue ball studs, a few ABEC5 bearings, reinforced adjusters for turnbuckles, TRF wheel nuts, TRF suspension balls, I also used spacers from kit #53539, and a load of shims ect.).

 

Mounting the servo on the opposite side to what's specified in the manual appears to be a sane move - the servo mounting (either the kit or the hopup) has way to much flex IMO so modifying this in some way looks like a good idea if your racing on high traction surfaces. 

I will probably add titanium turnbuckles to my build, and if I can find them I will swap the internal bevel gears from plastic to metal (a rare DB02 hopup is needed for this). I will definitely be drilling 2 extra holes to allow the servo to more securely fastened in place.

Best non ReRe buggy in years IMO, the DB01/02 were good, the TRF5* were great cars, and in their absense this fills a big gap in the Tamiya lineup that the DF03 and TT02B do not fill, the main improvements being strength and ability to handle modern motor power

Edited by BuggyGuy
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12 hours ago, Saito2 said:

I've read its flexy in this area. There seems to be a way of mounting it on the other side of the chassis like the TD2 that helps(?) I do have to sell two buggies first to make room and everything's out of stock as usual nowadays, so I'm looking toward the future.

I've not heard about mounting it on the other side! That's interesting to know because apparently even with the alloy servo mounts you still get a certain amount of flexing because it transfers along the chassis!. Yeah I think it's a wise decision to look to the future because tamiya are bound to use this chassis on another buggy/car with the gremlins hopefully sorted out?

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1 hour ago, moffman said:

I've not heard about mounting it on the other side! That's interesting to know because apparently even with the alloy servo mounts you still get a certain amount of flexing because it transfers along the chassis!. Yeah I think it's a wise decision to look to the future because tamiya are bound to use this chassis on another buggy/car with the gremlins hopefully sorted out?

There's a whole thread for this stuff in Build tips and Techniques or whatever it's called. I'll fetch the link. 

here: 

 

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There are a few ships in Japan that seem to have the DB02 bevel gears in stock, but they don’t ship internationally as far as I can make out

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5 hours ago, matisse said:

There are a few ships in Japan that seem to have the DB02 bevel gears in stock, but they don’t ship internationally as far as I can make out

I think we've been looking in the same places! I think plastic gears should be ok, but might need shimming once worn in.

Once mines done a race night I'll deffo be giving it a good strip down to inspect them. I think on power landings from jumps will be the biggest risk to them (but the cluch should help) - I would think they'd last longer with ball diffs than gear diffs as at least they offer a little slip, but will have to see.

No one's posted about what happens when you race one of these on astro yet (at least on YouTube, RcTech, or here that I've seen).

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2 hours ago, BuggyGuy said:

I think we've been looking in the same places! I think plastic gears should be ok, but might need shimming once worn in.

Once mines done a race night I'll deffo be giving it a good strip down to inspect them. I think on power landings from jumps will be the biggest risk to them (but the cluch should help) - I would think they'd last longer with ball diffs than gear diffs as at least they offer a little slip, but will have to see.

No one's posted about what happens when you race one of these on astro yet (at least on YouTube, RcTech, or here that I've seen).

First race night for me is Friday, if the esc turns up in time. I shall report back

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3 hours ago, BuggyGuy said:

No one's posted about what happens when you race one of these on astro yet

Someone has, ( @BloodClod maybe?) and that's where I think I read about the skipping bevels, not on dirt

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2 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Someone has, ( @BloodClod maybe?) and that's where I think I read about the skipping bevels, not on dirt

Aha - found the post!

Thanks!

Edit: I guess TB03/4/5 main shaft bevel gears don't fit?

Edit2: I'm guessing it's a no for TB05 gears as they are only 16 tooth and I think TD4 is 20

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4 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Someone has, ( @BloodClod maybe?) and that's where I think I read about the skipping bevels, not on dirt

Yup, I was the one who experienced skilling bevels - though I must admit I am wondering if I'm one of the unfortunate exceptions because nobody else seems to have brought this up.
I am a racer at heart so I set up the TD4 for the track as I would any other race car - and I found that with the ball diffs suitably tightened and even with the slipper run loose, the stock bevels in the rear of the transmission skipped on high-grip astro turf. It didn't even take long for this to happen. Within the first couple of laps I could hear the gears clicking. As the run wore on it simply got worse. This happens most when the car lands nose first.

I noticed that the way the bevels assemble on their respective shafts, there can be some play that allows the bevel to slide back and forth a little on the shaft. I think that given the stresses that these bevels go through, this may eventually translate to some wobble which doesn't help. In my car now I've used shims to remove that play - hopefully to extend their life.

So I'm really curious - has anyone else here experienced issues with the bevels? :)

 

1 hour ago, BuggyGuy said:

Aha - found the post!

Thanks!

Edit: I guess TB03/4/5 main shaft bevel gears don't fit?

Edit2: I'm guessing it's a no for TB05 gears as they are only 16 tooth and I think TD4 is 20

As others have highlighted, the DB02 metal bevels work and these were specced for the TB04 too. Unfortunately, these seem near impossible to get now. Saw a set on ebay yesterday for US$100+... that's way too rich for my blood. I am hoping Tamiya or some other company will make suitable replacements soon.

 

1 hour ago, BuggyGuy said:

Looks like #54593 are carbon reinforced and includes a 20 tooth gear...

This is what I'm running in my car now since TD4 spares are still not widely available. Had 2 get 2 sets of these just to get 2 bevel gears.
They survived my track time on the local dirt track yesterday - 8.5T motor on a loamy dirt track that is bumpy with small jumps.

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Any idea on the availability/price for the official Tamiya TD4 metal bevel gear set, 22059? Tamiya USA says they're not available for purchase,

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13 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Any idea on the availability/price for the official Tamiya TD4 metal bevel gear set, 22059? Tamiya USA says they're not available for purchase,

probadly not expensive 20-30usd but just my guess. only needed if you go hotter motors.

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