F103/Super Hornet pics and questions

[Penguin 29]

Hi everyone!

Just dug these out from my garage. It's a blast to start messing with some RC again. Been around 25 years.
Clearly have some work to do with the cars. I'll strip them right down, clean them up, see what needs to be done to bring them both back to fully functional. I've forgotten so much. It was a task just trying to browse the net a little and remembering what part was called what.

I do have a couple of questions. I'm in Australia if that helps but prepared to buy from anywhere.

1. Any recommendations for rims and tires for the Hornet?
2. Are all F103 parts easy to obtain?  

Thanks for any help. It's great to see these cars are still popular! 

[Jonathon Gillham]

Welcome back.

F103 parts are readily available, but I think thats an F102 and I'm not sure about those as they are older.  Don't confuse it with the TRF102 which is much more modern and easy to find parts for.  The F103 and F104 parts are pretty interchangeable as well, but I don't know if thats the same for the F102.

My goto for F1 parts has been RCMart or RCJaz in Hong Kong, or TQRC in the USA.  Tonys Tamiya Parts on eBay may be a good option for hard to find parts, or some of the Japanese based sellers, the only one I've used is Rdvtg Hobbies and they had very hard to find parts and shipping was cheap and quick.

[Penguin 29]

Thanks for the reply Jonathon. Oh, yes, it is a F102. I realized myself it was a F102 a short time ago. The Benetton shell threw me off when I made the post and I completely forgot I had it on a F102 chassis. Question still applies for anyone else as I also have F103.
From some of the posts I've read on F102 I assume F102 parts are very hard to find now. Shame as it's the pictured F102 chassis I would like to run. The chassis is well worn and I'd prefer not to touch my F103 as it's in great shape. I'd like to keep it for display.

[Jonathon Gillham]

17 minutes ago, Penguin 29 said:

Thanks for the reply Jonathon. Oh, yes, it is a F102. I realized myself it was a F102 a short time ago. The Benetton shell threw me off when I made the post and I completely forgot I had it on a F102 chassis. Question still applies for anyone else as I also have F103.
From some of the posts I've read on F102 I assume F102 parts are very hard to find now. Shame as it's the pictured F102 chassis I would like to run. The chassis is well worn and I'd prefer not to touch my F103 as it's in great shape. I'd like to keep it for display.

The F103 parts are easy to find, a lot of places carry them, even old hop ups.  It helps that a lot of the F103 and F104 are interchangeable.  The F103 is a viable runner these days since parts are so easy to get.  My son has one as a race car that he sometimes takes racing, but usually prefers running other things since he enters the kids class which allows anything.

The wheels and tyres aren't as plentiful as the F104 sized ones, but its still possible to get some.

I did a quick search of RCMart and they have nothing for the F102.  If you still have the manual then that would help though as you can search for part numbers.  If you don't have the manual you can download one.  I would try going into your local hobby shop and see if they can order them for you, otherwise Tonys Tamiya Parts on ebay seem to be able to get everything, and even though they're UK based their prices are reasonable and include international shipping

[Penguin 29]

3 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

The F103 parts are easy to find, a lot of places carry them, even old hop ups.  It helps that a lot of the F103 and F104 are interchangeable.  The F103 is a viable runner these days since parts are so easy to get.  My son has one as a race car that he sometimes takes racing, but usually prefers running other things since he enters the kids class which allows anything.

The wheels and tyres aren't as plentiful as the F104 sized ones, but its still possible to get some.

I did a quick search of RCMart and they have nothing for the F102.  If you still have the manual then that would help though as you can search for part numbers.  If you don't have the manual you can download one.  I would try going into your local hobby shop and see if they can order them for you, otherwise Tonys Tamiya Parts on ebay seem to be able to get everything, and even though they're UK based their prices are reasonable and include international shipping

Thanks again! I do have spare parts and tires from 25 years ago but I need to get to them in the spare room to see what's there. I can't remember the plan I had 25 years ago but I'm hoping the plan was to run the F102 chassis and that I stocked up on some of the F102 parts. The spare room will also hold any manuals and other bits I have. I'll dig it all out and start going through it. Any further info from anyone regarding the F1 chassis or Hornet welcomed. I knew so much back then but you forget many things over time. Any 2022 tips or advice is certainly appreciated.

If worse comes to worse I may have to run a F103 chassis.

[El Gecko]

That F102 looks fast, it's no wonder you want to drive it! But I would agree that the F103 is probably a better daily driver.

If you can get the F102 running without changing too many things, I'd say go for it. But if it's gonna become Trigger's Broom, maybe just put it on display for what it is: a cool high-performance relic of another time.

The Super Hornet is cool too!

[ThunderDragonCy]

I can't see the pictures for some reason, but if the Super Hornet wheels, are in good condition any modern slim 2wd 2.2" front tyre will fit. What you fit depends on the surface you run on. Can you get Schumacher tyres easily in Australia? Or would it be one of the US brand like Proline? The rear are the more vintage 2" diameter, but due to the popularity of vintage racing there are quite a few good option. Schumacher do the modern Mini Spike and Mini Pin in 2" size for example. 

[Penguin 29]

4 hours ago, El Gecko said:

That F102 looks fast, it's no wonder you want to drive it! But I would agree that the F103 is probably a better daily driver.

If you can get the F102 running without changing too many things, I'd say go for it. But if it's gonna become Trigger's Broom, maybe just put it on display for what it is: a cool high-performance relic of another time.

The Super Hornet is cool too!

The F102 and F103 were both identical speeds from memory. I ran fast motors, had a couple of them. Pictured is the slower one. I worked out the speed of the slightly slower motor at 73kmh (45mph) I think it was. The other motor was a little faster but I never worked out it's speed.

I've been able to find my spares. I'll have no problem getting the F102 running. After quickly taking off the rear wheel and checking everything, it looks totally ready to run now, just needs a general clean but I'll still completely strip it. I'm remembering my techniques for checking the wheel bearings etc and from everything I remember how to do the parts feel really good.
This was my crash and bash type car as is probably clear to see. I don't intend to keep this one for display. I just want to run it as long as I can.

The Super Hornet likely looks worse than it is. I'm almost certain the gears are in great condition. The motor I'll probably replace. Springs have rust and I may need to consider what to do here. Everything else I'm expecting is in good shape. I searched for decals and see some are readily available. They don't look quite the same as the originals but may get them as it will be far more original than how the Super Hornet looks now.

[Penguin 29]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:38 PM, ThunderDragonCy said:

I can't see the pictures for some reason, but if the Super Hornet wheels, are in good condition any modern slim 2wd 2.2" front tyre will fit. What you fit depends on the surface you run on. Can you get Schumacher tyres easily in Australia? Or would it be one of the US brand like Proline? The rear are the more vintage 2" diameter, but due to the popularity of vintage racing there are quite a few good option. Schumacher do the modern Mini Spike and Mini Pin in 2" size for example. 

The wheels are still fine but the rear rims (you can't really see in the pics) are starting to show stress. Not sure how long they'll last. I'll use them for now but would like to pick up some spares. I know they will eventually go and being very old plastic, I'm thinking it may not take long. I'm sure the rims pictured are already at least the second set of rims I've had for the Super Hornet.

Thanks for the tire tip. I have no idea regarding those tires but you've given me something to check and look at. I intend to also visit my old hobby shop to have a general chat. It's still going strong today.

It's just so much fun to be messing around with all this again! And now we have internet as well to find many other people with the same interests. Really cool! lol

[ThunderDragonCy]

The super hornet wheels in that colour are no longer available, but you can get white or gold ones as they are the same as the Wild One and Fox Rereleases. A company in the UK called JC Racing Products makes reproductions with modern 12mm hex fit rear (you would need an adaptor) in all the colours and 2.2" size, but I imagine shipping to Australia would be expensive. 

[Penguin 29]

1 minute ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

The super hornet wheels in that colour are no longer available, but you can get white or gold ones as they are the same as the Wild One and Fox Rereleases. A company in the UK called JC Racing Products makes reproductions with modern 12mm hex fit rear (you would need an adaptor) in all the colours and 2.2" size, but I imagine shipping to Australia would be expensive. 

Awesome! Thanks again! I'll look into it. I don't have masses of cash to blow. I had that cash thing pre-family when I last raced these so you can kinda see why there was a 25 year break. The family came and then the RC funds ran dry. haha
The more I think about it, the more I would like to get the Super Hornet looking good even if not completely original. I wasn't going to bother replacing the front lights for example but starting to think I may have to look into that as well.

[El Gecko]

5 hours ago, Penguin 29 said:

The more I think about it, the more I would like to get the Super Hornet looking good even if not completely original. I wasn't going to bother replacing the front lights for example but starting to think I may have to look into that as well.

imho the SH looks great as is! Just needs a good cleanup and as you said, possibly a new motor. The stickers may not be "factory" but that's what makes it yours.

[Penguin 29]

7 hours ago, El Gecko said:

imho the SH looks great as is! Just needs a good cleanup and as you said, possibly a new motor. The stickers may not be "factory" but that's what makes it yours.

Geez...now you are making me think about it! 
The original side SH decals got banged up and I threw on whatever I had at the time to fill the empty space. Might clean it up first, get everything else done and then decide on decals.

[Penguin 29]

I literally feel like I have struck gold!

The things you forgot you had. I thought I must've broke off the SH lights but no, I never put them on.
Purchasing a new motor is not required.
The Tamiya catalogues were an equal surprise.
Also found plenty of spares for the F102 chassis so I can keep running it.
 

[Penguin 29]

For anyone interested, I started on the F1 and pulled it apart.
Below are the issues I found. Pics of everything below.
I'll post a pic of the car once it's completely finished.

Part of the motor mount assembly broken.
Front suspension arm bent.
Rear diffuser missing it's airflow thingy.
One of the 5 screws that hold the suspension arms wouldn't come off. I had to apply force and the screw completely snapped.

[Grumpy pants]

Great thread, and yes we are interested !

Keep us posted on your progress, it’ll be interesting to see how the plastics have held up as they do become brittle over time.

 

[Penguin 29]

1 hour ago, Grumpy pants said:

Great thread, and yes we are interested !

Keep us posted on your progress, it’ll be interesting to see how the plastics have held up as they do become brittle over time.

 

No worries, I certainly will. Happy to shout to the world because I am having sooooo much fun messing with all this stuff again! You never grow old.

I spent a long time on the F1 today and wheel controller. I'm trying to use all my old stuff. Kinda feel as this is all vintage now I should really try and use everything I can from the period. The wheel controller was only a cheap Futaba. I first had to find it jammed away in the garage somewhere and then clean it up. The battery holder was broken so I've used some super glue, I'll see if it holds. 
Now that I've pulled all my RC gear out, I've worked out I was running mostly the F102 chassis back in the day. I did also buy the F103 when it was released but I didn't really run it a great deal. Date wise, that would mean I was at my peak with RC in 1992/1993 so that's the age of my RC gear.

I've cleaned up 80% of the chassis. Tomorrow I'll finish the clean, see if the controller glue worked and hopefully start re-assembly.

[Penguin 29]

Here's a final pic to show the state of affairs earlier on.
Talking about how things have held up after 30 years, I'm kinda interested to also try out the lubes, oil and grease.

[Andreas W]

It will be interesting to see how the plastics will hold up. My Nikko Dictator was not touched for over 20 years when I took it out in 2020. The only things that broke were the wheel adapters. I also had a broken batteryholder in the Sanwa transmitter. Luckily the JB Weld rapair held up. It broke because I forgot to takk out the batteries and they stayed there for 20 years. 

 

I used the now vintage radio gear the first year after my return, but gave it up. It works as good as it used to, but nowadays there is so much equipment making Interferenz. Not the biggest problem in my cars with batteries (of course irritating) , but useless if I should try my Burns. If you have glitching at full throtle it matters less that the plastics are still fine when the car is running uncontrolable into the geography .

 

 

[Penguin 29]

Just have one question if anyone can answer. You guys here have tonnes of experience and imagine have likely used many batteries over the years in the same car.
I need to buy batteries. Going with NiMH but can anyone give me an idea what the "realistic real world running time" difference is of a 5000mah NiMH compared to a 1700mah NiCD?

I'm kinda tossing up if I should go straight for a 5000mah NiMH or to lose around 70grams in battery weight maybe even consider 3000mah. I see the 3000mah NiMH comes in at around the same weight as the old 1700mah NiCD's. Opinion I've read appears to suggest always go for the higher mah and the weight difference doesn't appear to bother anyone. 

Any opinions/suggestions greatly appreciated!

[El Gecko]

If you want long runtimes, go for the 5000, but if you want better performance go with the 3000. I have both, and I keep the 3000 as my "race pack" because it's lighter and seems to give the cars just a little bit more punch than the cheaper 5000s. I don't remember exactly, but I think I've been getting at least 2 full five-minute heats out of the 3k in the Grasshopper when I blast it around offroad, and I was getting around double that when I drove it on tarmac (27T and now 21T motors). I figure about 1000mAh per 5mins of full-speed running with NiMHs, which decreases quickly with hotter motors.

One thing I noticed about the Grasshopper is that it's more sensitive to the heavier (or lighter) batteries--probably similar to how your F1 cars are. It tends to bounce and griproll a bit easier with the lighter 3000, but it seems quite a bit faster on acceleration/power. On the other side, the handling is less twitchy and more predictable with the heavier 5000s, so it's easier to be smoother, which kind of counteracts the added weight.

In the Sledgehammer, which now weighs over 2.5kg, I've been getting an hour of runtime on snowy/muddy/sludgy trail walks with either of the 5000s. It's low-speed most of the way, so I'm not pushing the batteries to their limit, although the 27T motor is geared about as low as it can go with that gearbox (10t pinion) to keep the RPMs in a usable range.

All that said, I usually don't break out the 3000 very often, pretty much only for Racing by Post (when I actually have the chance to run some laps). The 5000s are the first ones I grab and usually the only ones I need, and they work in all my cars.

[Penguin 29]

10 hours ago, El Gecko said:

If you want long runtimes, go for the 5000, but if you want better performance go with the 3000. I have both, and I keep the 3000 as my "race pack" because it's lighter and seems to give the cars just a little bit more punch than the cheaper 5000s. I don't remember exactly, but I think I've been getting at least 2 full five-minute heats out of the 3k in the Grasshopper when I blast it around offroad, and I was getting around double that when I drove it on tarmac (27T and now 21T motors). I figure about 1000mAh per 5mins of full-speed running with NiMHs, which decreases quickly with hotter motors.

One thing I noticed about the Grasshopper is that it's more sensitive to the heavier (or lighter) batteries--probably similar to how your F1 cars are. It tends to bounce and griproll a bit easier with the lighter 3000, but it seems quite a bit faster on acceleration/power. On the other side, the handling is less twitchy and more predictable with the heavier 5000s, so it's easier to be smoother, which kind of counteracts the added weight.

In the Sledgehammer, which now weighs over 2.5kg, I've been getting an hour of runtime on snowy/muddy/sludgy trail walks with either of the 5000s. It's low-speed most of the way, so I'm not pushing the batteries to their limit, although the 27T motor is geared about as low as it can go with that gearbox (10t pinion) to keep the RPMs in a usable range.

All that said, I usually don't break out the 3000 very often, pretty much only for Racing by Post (when I actually have the chance to run some laps). The 5000s are the first ones I grab and usually the only ones I need, and they work in all my cars.

Thanks for all this! You got me kinda thinking may be worth trying one of each or just getting a single 5000, trying it out first to see if I'm happy with it and going from there.
I gotta be careful because I can't afford to make mistakes. Wife could immediately see spending was coming as soon as I started eyeing off the dirty RC's sitting on the shelf in the garage. haha

[Penguin 29]

F1 is done and must say I'm totally happy with it!

The car is completely stock except for motor and diffuser.
Fatigue/age wise, everything and I mean everything, appears and feels no different to the last time I had this car out. A run will give things the final test.
I luckily had spares to replace all the damaged components I mentioned earlier. Unlike the old days, I will now have to be a little more careful to not crash the car.
The wheel controller repair worked and very happy I can still use it. The box still has the price sticker on it and I found it cost double to what I thought it did. ($199AU)
I did not need to replace spur gear, pinion or any other bearings. They all appear to be in good shape.

Regarding the shell:
I set aside the earlier pictured dirty B195. I decided I would use the best condition F102 running shell I had. Afterall, it would be kinda nice to have the car as new looking as possible going out for that first run.
I have three B192 shells. One is for display. Another was the first shell I ever ran on the F102 and it got trashed. I bought a second B192 shell for running, sprayed it and then decided I wanted the car to have a different look. I used decals I had on hand and the car pictured below was the result. Yes, I do realize I have competitors on the same car. They were the decals I had so you have to pretend that it was a global union of some sort. I just wanted a good look and it's all I had. This shell had few runs and is in really great condition.

Finally, the motor is a Trinity 10T I was told. It wasn't until I found these motors going through my RC stuff I remembered I did have 3 of them. Back in the day, the hobby shop owner knew me well and looked after me. He got hold of these motors from some serious and well known RC racer. Can't remember exactly but he ran them for a race or two, something like that, and then went straight for a new motor. I told the hobby shop owner I'd take all 3. I'm still on the first Trinity motor. I've never even got to using the other two.

Now I just have to buy some batteries and a charger over the weekend. These will be the only modern/new components. Everything else is the same as when I was running the car in the 90's.

Over the last few days, I found all sorts of things started coming back to me, it's been an absolute blast! Can't wait to give the F102 a run!

 

[Penguin 29]

One final comment. When I was running these in the past I was in my early 20's. Life was much more frantic and decisions were made in an instant.
I keep looking at the shell as an old guy now. I'm a little more considered in my approach to life. So now I'm looking at the positioning of the stickers and see the ones that could be easily removed. I'm thinking do I want to rip the front/rear wing stuff off, the Agip in front of the driver and replace those stickers with something else to make the car a little more "real world."
I kinda like it as is because it has sentimental/nostalgic value and is a representation of my youth.
I know some here will look at the shell and probably fit. lol

Anyhow, I have something to think about before I rush out on that first run. Any comments/thoughts on this welcomed.

[Jonathon Gillham]

That car has come up great.

Regarding batteries. The NiMH batteries get bigger as you go up in capacity, so a 5000mah is bigger than a 3000mah. I can't fit those in my F103 as they're too fat. I had to get out my old 1400mah NiCd racing packs (haha!) to run the F103. The 3800mah and 3300mah NiMH wouldn't fit. I ended up getting some spacers to lift the top deck by .5mm and using shorty lipos in the F103, but then I have a lot of shorty lipos so it made sense.

I also have some lipo roundcase packs which are designed to replace NiCd in older cars and they are too long. Mine are gensace, but CoreRC make one that fits (was told by someone on here).

Are you buying from a shop or online? Can you take the car with you to make sure it will fit?