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alvinlwh

880? Or not?

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I am planning to build a twin motor car but when looking up the 880, they stated that "the two sets of output wires are connected in parallel". Does this mean I will get the same effect if I make up a Y splitter for a 1060?

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3 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Does this mean I will get the same effect if I make up a Y splitter for a 1060?

Yes. 
 

if you don’t need the extra current capacity of the 880

1060 Should be fine to run dual parallel silvercans etc

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21 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

Yes. 
 

if you don’t need the extra current capacity of the 880

1060 Should be fine to run dual parallel silvercans etc

Thanks! What is the limit? Is it 12T (limit of 1060) x 2 = 24T each motor? 

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19 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Thanks! What is the limit? Is it 12T (limit of 1060) x 2 = 24T each motor? 

yeah close enough Rule of thumb :) 

silvercans are a “soft” 27t generally

but if you’re gearing them to the moon they’ll be close to stalling & can draw heaps too much current 

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6 hours ago, WillyChang said:

yeah close enough Rule of thumb :) 

silvercans are a “soft” 27t generally

but if you’re gearing them to the moon they’ll be close to stalling & can draw heaps too much current 

Thanks! I will start with silver cans and see how it goes. 

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@alvinlwh You can always place a fuse of your amperage choice in series just in case to prevent overloading (and potentially damaging) your ESC.  I know most ESC’s usually have overload protection, but I’ve read many threads where people mentioned their ESC just died. 

Never know how much the motor can dynamically spike in current draw when forced in real world driving.  

I remember my 5844 Pajero even came with an inline fuse on the MSC.  :D 

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5 hours ago, Willy iine said:

@alvinlwh You can always place a fuse of your amperage choice in series just in case to prevent overloading (and potentially damaging) your ESC.  I know most ESC’s usually have overload protection, but I’ve read many threads where people mentioned their ESC just died. 

Never know how much the motor can dynamically spike in current draw when forced in real world driving.  

I remember my 5844 Pajero even came with an inline fuse on the MSC.  :D 

Can you explain that further? How many amps? How to work it out? Where the fuse goes? 

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1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Can you explain that further? How many amps? How to work it out? 

Yeah, I suppose it would take some level of trial and error to find the right value... especially when the ESC has overload protection might be more difficult than it seems as I am sure heat build up also contributes to when the ESC shuts down.. hopefully temporarily.  

You can scratch off this idea as I don't want you wasting multiple ESC's just to find the sweet amperage fuse to use.. and perhaps on the 1060, you many never need one given the overload protection works each time, hopefully..

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The 860 and 880 do come with a fan though, so maybe something to consider.

I'm running a pair of 15t firebolts off an 860, and it's been faultless.

(Also run a 15t firebolt on 3s with a 1060, so they're stout escs in my testing...🙄😁

Also, the 860/880 are 4s capable...

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1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

The 860 and 880 do come with a fan though, so maybe something to consider.

I'm running a pair of 15t firebolts off an 860, and it's been faultless.

(Also run a 15t firebolt on 3s with a 1060, so they're stout escs in my testing...🙄😁

Also, the 860/880 are 4s capable...

The chassis I am intending to do this experiment one, really, I am supposed to only use 27 - 35T motors as it has a fixed FDR of 5. Anything else will probably kill the motor not the ESC. While I am currently running a single 380 ST, it gets really hot and will probably be cooked eventually.

Don't think I will go higher than 540 Torque Tuned when I go dual motors so will probably be within the safe (paper) limits if the 1060?

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6 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

The chassis I am intending to do this experiment one, really, I am supposed to only use 27 - 35T motors as it has a fixed FDR of 5

Should know me by now, I'd look at that as merely a, serving suggestion....🙄

All depends on its mass and terrain.

 

6 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Don't think I will go higher than 540 Torque Tuned when I go dual motors so will probably be within the safe (paper) limits if the 1060?

Mind the torque tuned are timed, so directional.

The 15t Core RC (same as the 15t firebolt I believe), pulls 20amp continuous, but upto 120amp stalled, so geared right and on tarmac, the data suggests they would be OK for a 60amp esc? But as its the upper end of its limit, a fan may be a requirement for future proofing.

If you've already got a 1060, then I'd maybe just get a cheap fan, and run it off a spare reciever port. If not, then the 880 might be a consideration (or research it, as the 1080 esc has some programmable options, so presumably the 880 has?) 

 

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47 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

 

Should know me by now, I'd look at that as merely a, serving suggestion....🙄

All depends on its mass and terrain.

 

Mind the torque tuned are timed, so directional.

The 15t Core RC (same as the 15t firebolt I believe), pulls 20amp continuous, but upto 120amp stalled, so geared right and on tarmac, the data suggests they would be OK for a 60amp esc? But as its the upper end of its limit, a fan may be a requirement for future proofing.

If you've already got a 1060, then I'd maybe just get a cheap fan, and run it off a spare reciever port. If not, then the 880 might be a consideration (or research it, as the 1080 esc has some programmable options, so presumably the 880 has?) 

Your input is appreciated, don't get me wrong. I am just saying that the motor options for this car (as recommended by the manufacturer) are 27, 30 and 35T as it is geared very highly. It is not designed as a dual motor thing as well, I just want to bash two kits together as an experiment. Currently I am running a 380 in it, but a Sports Tuned one, which is excessively overspeed for its gearing, and runs very hot. 

I do not have any option for gearing in this chassis if I am running dual motor, I can only do 5.00. Which means it will be risky even for a TT. I do have more options if running single motor, but it actually get geared even higher. 

The two motors will be turning in the same direction, so being timed is OK. 

Now, the issue for me to consider is at this moment, the 1060 is tucked in nearly into a space in the chassis. A 880 or adding a fan will mean it will no longer fit and I have to install an extension to house the ESC. 

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49 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Now, the issue for me to consider is at this moment, the 1060 is tucked in nearly into a space in the chassis. A 880 or adding a fan will mean it will no longer fit and I have to install an extension to house the ESC

That would settle it for me, 1060 it is!

I believe its got a thermal protection built in, so I'd run it, and see if it's OK, you're into an unknown, but it's great to be a pioneer! 😃👍

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52 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

That would settle it for me, 1060 it is!

I believe its got a thermal protection built in, so I'd run it, and see if it's OK, you're into an unknown, but it's great to be a pioneer! 😃👍

Don't get me wrong, what you said about gearing and amps, I do take note of. However there are also other limiting factors and I have to consider everything to decide how to go about things. 

Just FYI. 

With 1060.

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With TBLE-04S + fan 

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Will prefer having it without those side electronics panels if possible. 

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ahh! MST TCR 

yeah was wondering how one would go built FF+MR :rolleyes: 

 

btw one avenue you might’ve not considered is, if your ESC is capable of 3S or 4S... run a higher volts battery & wire the 2 motors in Series (not Parallel). That’ll avoid “doubling” the current thru ESC. 

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3 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

yeah was wondering how one would go built FF+MR

FF + MR will be difficult with battery choice/placement. FF + RR is possible with a shorty. 

5 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

btw one avenue you might’ve not considered is, if your ESC is capable of 3S or 4S... run a higher volts battery & wire the 2 motors in Series (not Parallel). That’ll avoid “doubling” the current thru ESC. 

Interesting. Will have to give this some though. 

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17 hours ago, WillyChang said:

btw one avenue you might’ve not considered is, if your ESC is capable of 3S or 4S... run a higher volts battery & wire the 2 motors in Series (not Parallel). That’ll avoid “doubling” the current thru ESC. 

Had been thinking about this, if I am to go series, it means I can go less turns right? Ignoring gearing, the limit of the 1060 is 12T, so 2 motors of 6T in series is its limit right? One question though, will this running in series have a very negative effect on the torque? Clearly the RPM will be halved, I know that. 

Finally, for perspective, the motors recommended by MST themselves are actually rather slow ones. I don't think this chassis was made for fast motors even though I have a 380ST pushing over 25000 RPM in it right now.

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When I do go dual motor, I must use a 15T pinion giving a FDR of 5.00 as that is the only matching ratio for the front and back motor plate. At that FDR, the only sensible motor to use is probably the silver can, or lower. 

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Motor physics are never 100% linear relationship. 
 

Hot mod motors rely on high revs to produce their high power. Bog them down by overgearing and they’ll burn up real quick. 
 

Brushed motors aren’t digital devices either, even if you run slightly different pinions on a pair of equal motors or slightly different motors geared together they don’t seem to get too fussed (by our own experimenting). 
 

But TBH... these days with brushless & HV there’s less need to double up brushed motors for extra high speed running. At our recent Velodrome running someone turned up with a 6-wheeler pan car with twin rear motor pods. Don’t think it ran any better than the M07 with just a 5.5t running 2S... that little mini just cruised around like it was in rails lap after lap. 

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1 hour ago, WillyChang said:

Motor physics are never 100% linear relationship. 
 

Hot mod motors rely on high revs to produce their high power. Bog them down by overgearing and they’ll burn up real quick. 
 

Brushed motors aren’t digital devices either, even if you run slightly different pinions on a pair of equal motors or slightly different motors geared together they don’t seem to get too fussed (by our own experimenting). 
 

But TBH... these days with brushless & HV there’s less need to double up brushed motors for extra high speed running. At our recent Velodrome running someone turned up with a 6-wheeler pan car with twin rear motor pods. Don’t think it ran any better than the M07 with just a 5.5t running 2S... that little mini just cruised around like it was in rails lap after lap. 

Someone actually had asked a similar question and was told that the motors are actually connected together, by the ground. I am not sure if it will be a good idea to put it to the test with motors and/or pinions of widely different specs though. As for gearing, I really don't have much choice. The motor mounts offers 15T or 18T for FF (and 13T for 380) and 15T and 21T for MR/RR (no 380 option), with a 75T spur. So 15T is my only option (no I did not get the metal motor mount). 

A friend had said the same thing, having two motors will not make the car go faster, I understand that. Which is why I said this is just an experiment, and if I don't like it, I will build the second kit to a MR chassis. I am experimenting with doubling up to see if I can get the best of both worlds of FF and RR together. 

I will not even attempt to use anything more than a TT with this chassis due to its gearing. For melting motors, I use a 3R MG Evo which had far freer gearing options. 

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On 3/23/2022 at 3:28 PM, WillyChang said:

Motor physics are never 100% linear relationship. 

I have been (over?) thinking about this further. I am going to try 2 silver cans in parallel first as I do not want to half (?) the already poor torque of low turns motor further (which may not be a bad thing as it can reduce tyre wear). If I do not like it, I may get 2 12Ts to try out in series, which should in theory give me the same speed of Torque Tuned. Just that I already have silver cans on hand so do not need to buy anything additional to get this experiment going right away.

Ideally, I will like to run 2 380STs (low amps, low torque, high speed, ESC can support both parallel and series of the motors, just swap between parallel or series for more or less speed) but RR motor mount does not allow 380.

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1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

but RR motor mount does not allow 380.

hack it on with Grasshopper adapter plate? :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, WillyChang said:

hack it on with Grasshopper adapter plate? :ph34r:

I did buy the MST adapter plate, but have not opened it yet to figure out how it works.

Looking at it, it seem to make a 380 work in the 540 pinion positions, which could mean using 15T or 18T (or 21T?) pinions, which could way over gear the 380. I need to figure out how it works first and which holes to go in since there are 2 possible mounting position on the adaptor and 2 possible mounting on the motor plate, meaning 4 possible combos. 

I also do have a Holiday Buggy (DT-02) adaptor, which I believe to be similar in idea to a Grasshopper one? That will also need some figuring out as it goes into the 17T mounting hole on the DT-02 but uses a 10T pinion. 

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OK, first run with a Y splitter and 2 silver cans today with a FDR of 5.0. No thermal cut off and the motors themselves did not get hot. Ran for a solid 30 minutes on full throttle nearly all the time. Problem is the rear spur got shredded, not sure why. Going to get spares and a pair of MST 30Ts to use. They are slightly faster than silver cans on paper. Asiatee only have one single 26T in stock, might just get that as well for the future. 

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37 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

Fast? :) 

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Slowr than the single 380ST but that is expected as silvercans have lower RPM. 

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Now I really need to figure out a way to slap on 2 380STs, they are faster, lighter and easier on the ESC and battery life. They also do not chew up the spur like the 540 does. Wonder if just flipping the FF mount plate around will work or not... 

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