Orange peel of doom. Help!

[Wheeelie 6]

I am not very into perfect shelf queens. I respect them but I have not the patience myself. A few quick layers of primer and then a few layers of paint is good enough for me.

When I painted my Black Foot I got a mirror like finish without even trying but the last layer of paint went orange peel of doom! Locks seriously awful.. soooo, how do I fix this? Tried to google it but I only got guides for getting perfection. I guess clean the body, wet sand with I don't know - 2000 grit?? And the some polish maybe? Wich kind? As I wrote I don't need perfection but better than what it is now.

Thanks!  

[alvinlwh 5889]

 I reccommend 3200, 4000, 6000, 8000, and 12000 grits.

Gently knock down the orange peel with 3200 and 4000, it doesn't take much with these grits to get it levelled. Then smooth it out with 6000 and 8000. Switch directions perpendicularly with each grit, avoid sharp corners on the bodywork, and don't sand too hard. Blowing through the clear can be fixed easily with another clearcoat, but blowing through the color coats, especially with a metallic, is practically impossible to touch up without it being noticeable.

Then buff in a circular motion with 12000, and maybe up to 15000 if you think it's necessary.

Then use the polish with a non-abrasive cloth.

[Wheeelie 6]

Ok, thanks! I saw that Tamiya has three stages of polish but I would guess that's for the shelf queens? Can I use just one to get ok results?

[Juggular 4961]

I hate when that happens. Orange peel happens when there wasn't enough time for the first layer to dry.  I just experienced it myself.  Lacquers dry fast, but I still managed to make a zombie lady.  

Above is a tiny 1/24 figurine. I could start with 1000 grit sandpaper.  But in your case it's 1/10th truck, I would start with a coarser grit. 

I'm afraid 2000 will clog up right away. (Also, it would take forever.)  I would try #800 or so and see how it goes.  It depends on how much paint needs to be removed.  You can start with 800, but I have a feeling that's too fine.  There is no set rule, so you would have to judge as you sand.  Coarse grit (like 600) will get things done faster, but you don't want to leave deep scratches.  So starting with finer grit than you think you'd need is a better idea. If it takes long, you can go slightly rougher to do the majority of the sanding done. 

Then go finer, like 1000.  Usually 1000 is enough for my bashers.  But if you want more, you can use 1200 or 1400.  I don't think going beyond 2000 is meaningful. As the paint solidifies, the paint surface is what makes it smooth.  Even if you make it as sooth as the reflective surface of Hubble telescope, it won't matter.  The reason why I still do 1200 or 1400 sometimes is to make sure that 1000 grit did not miss 800 scuffs.  So 1200 or 1400 is like a quality control for me.  2000 would be extra nice.  

I'm assuming you are painting black?  Then the point isn't to remove all paint. It's to make it smooth.  I prefer dry sanding because I found it difficult to feel what the surface looks like. (Of course, I wear a N95 mask and vacuum thoroughly afterwards.)  You can do wet or dry as long as you can get it smooth. 

Polishing compound is more for airbrushes.  Occasionally, I used Tamiya polishing compound on 1/48 scale static kits.  Usually if there is imperfection on windshields.  I'd sand with 1200, 1600 and 2000, that'll get it foggy but smooth. (Remember, this is 1/44 scale canopy that's already smooth, no orange peel.)  Then you could use the polishing compound to make it as sooth as possible.  At that point it would be almost clear. Then you can airbrush a clear coat.  But for 1/10th scale trucks like Blackfoot? Compared to 1/48 scale air brush paint, Blackfoot paint would be really really thick. Compound is for really smooth surfaces. You could do it, but it would be unnoticeable, I'm afraid.  

*P.S. seeing what Alvin wrote, I'll double check the grits when I go home. I have a feeling that I only use 4000 to 10000 grit on smoothing fountain pen nibs. But I should check. 

 

[alvinlwh 5889]

Real pain when this happens, which is why I stopped using spray cans these days and airbrush instead. At least with airbrush, when it happens, it is relatively minor and can be sorted with a mist of Mr Levelling Thinner. 

[Willy iine 18804]

I detail 1:1 cars for fun on the weekends using the same gear pro’s use.   I also do paintless dent removal which at the last step hide dings in the orange peel...Orange peel requires pretty aggressive polish to flatten including #1500- 3000 grit wet sanding blocks on real cars. 

 

For soft paints like RC paint, I use micro-mesh sticks with water to start the flattening, then mild diminishing abrasives (car polish like ScratchX) to finish.

But typically I don’t end up with orange peel because it’s about the last wet coat that determines how much orange peel one is left with.  Rattle cans do just fine given the pressure inside the can remain fairly constant..   this is Tamiya's rattle can.  No orange peel on the blue.  I purposely left some minor orange peel on the white.

[KEV THE REV 2307]

WOW , that Scorcher looks BOSS !!

Now I need to get this done now ,  it's only been on the back burner for about 17 years . Don't worry , the Striker wheels are long gone

[Juggular 4961]

Okay, I revise... (*EDIT: This is for repainting or for clear coating)

You could start with 400 grit.  I have the same problem here on my Pumpkin.  Mirror-like, just before I did the sputter of despair.  

Below is 400 grit 3M sandpaper.  

I don't know if this "X-Fine" stuff is any different from other brands, but 400 is what it says (I got it at Home Depot).  If you go easy on it, you can smooth big bumps without a lot of effort. (Below is all I've done for 3 seconds) Even 400 could give you "almost" mirror like finish. But, I would not risk it only after 400.  I'd also use 600 and then at least go as fine as 1000 to make it smoother. 

12000 grit feels smooth like well-worn leather.  If a cheap fountain pen nib feels a bit scratchy on paper, I use it to buff the writing point of the nibs. But I've never used it on RC or scale models.  

Best of luck with it. It's a pain to get orange peel or sputter on a good finish. 

 

[Wheeelie 6]

Ok, many different answers. I guess Juggular answers my question right.

I did not got an answer for wich Tamiya polish I should use. I saw that they sell three different kinds and I think that it is for the shelf queens. Is it possible to use just one for an ok result?

Thanks in advance!

[Juggular 4961]

15 minutes ago, Wheeelie said:

Tamiya polish I should use

I don't use it at all. Well, not on RC cars. But I have used it on airplane canopies.  It takes about 10 minutes to polish only part of this canopy.  It will take hours to do an RC body. In the end, the surface will be covered by paint anyway.  That's why I most people would simply sand and repaint.  

 

[Willy iine 18804]

1 hour ago, Wheeelie said:

Ok, many different answers. I guess Juggular answers my question right.

I did not got an answer for wich Tamiya polish I should use. I saw that they sell three different kinds and I think that it is for the shelf queens. Is it possible to use just one for an ok result?

Thanks in advance!

Hummmm.. Never mind my useless reply.   

Did you try searching micro-mesh sticks?  Did you try searching diminishing abrasives like automotive ScratchX?  They will rid orange peel.  In the detailing world, using the least abrasive cutting product is the first step as there is no way to go back if you burn through your paint.. well, besides repaint.  

Only the very experienced use sanding blocks to wet sand orange peel.  I mean it's going to take a lot of practice to gain enough experience to know which product to use at what pressure and duration.   I can use the same polish (such as ScratchX) on different firmness pads and orbital speeds and pressure to obtain absolutely different cutting characteristics.  

I suggest you start with ScratchX (or equivalent) and a low pile microfiber towel.  It will not take much product to remove a layer of paint.. and it will finish with a clean shine.  You can also use it to polish clear plastic.  Very versatile product.  GL!!  

[Kol__ 3377]

6 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

Hummmm.. Never mind my useless reply. 

Lol, well that cracked me up Willy! Watch out Brassmother or whatever his name was will be along soon to teach the OP some lessons

[KEV THE REV 2307]

40 minutes ago, Kol__ said:

Lol, well that cracked me up Willy! Watch out Brassmother or whatever his name was will be along soon to teach the OP some lessons

I'm still wetting myself 10 minutes after reading this 

[Willy iine 18804]

2 hours ago, Kol__ said:

Lol, well that cracked me up Willy! Watch out Brassmother or whatever his name was will be along soon to teach the OP some lessons

I dunno man, @Juggular is an expert with paints and I'm sure for him using super aggressive sanding (I nearly fell off my rug on the floor when I saw #400 ) is a natural thing, but most folks would burn through paint in less than a min and re-flattening 400 grit requires quite a bit of paint thickness, I think.. Even the imperfections I sand off while spraying I use 1000 grit with near zero pressure (basically just gravity or the force of the sanding sponge bending against the surface) to rid minor runs and imperfections...     This is while painting so burning through paint is okay.  I get many tries.  

I guess I'm just a super newb. 

[Juggular 4961]

lol... I am getting old!  

I should have asked OP how bad was his "Orange Peel of Doom."  Old people tend to make assumptions, and I thought of my own novice mistake from 20 years ago. It has the classic orange peel. (Scout's honor! I'm not this bad anymore, I hope... but everybody starts as a noob.)

This does have quite a bit of thickness to flatten.  I thought 1000 grit could take forever to make this surface smooth.  So I had completely neglected the possibility of polishing the painted surface!  Could ScratchX take a layer off on this and bring a shine?  I really thought I had to re-paint this.  (Or does ScartchX cover up nooks and crannies and give it a flatter look? That would make sense too, depending on how the product works.) 

On the other hand, if your skill is advanced and the the imperfection isn't as doomsday as my Juggernaut, very light sanding of 1000 grit between layers would work perfectly, as @Willy iine said.   @Willy iine, is it something like car wax?  My Pumpkin isn't this terrible.  Do you think I could save my Pumpkin door with ScratchX?  I'm not too hopeful on my Juggernaut mistake (pun intended), but I'm rather hoping that it would work on my Pumpkin-skin?  

 

[Willy iine 18804]

@Juggular ScratchX is a polish, not a glaze nor wax, so it will remove surface paint and make that shine, even with the orange peel.   If going for glass-like mirror finish, then sanding will definitely speed things up, but at the risk of burning through the paint.  I don't know how thick the paint is, so really up to you how quickly and deeply you would like to cut through the layer. 

 

 

[alvinlwh 5889]

400 will cut through all my paint and take the plastic off as well, but if that is decided as right with OP, who am I to say anything. 🤷 🤐

[alvinlwh 5889]

11 hours ago, Juggular said:

ScratchX

I believe that is what we have here as TCut? 

[Willy iine 18804]

22 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

I believe that is what we have here as TCut? 

I am not sure, but ScratchX is by Meguiar's.  It's an off-the-shelf product, nothing special, sold at most auto parts stores in the USA.

The key is to use a mild polish with 'diminishing abrasives'.   This is very important, otherwise you'll need to get other polishes that are finer to get to where you think your target appearance is.  Hope this helps!

[87lc2 2659]

I regularly use Meguiars 105/205 (and sometimes 101 for heavy cut jobs) on 1:1 cars and they work great on RC paint (and other spray paints) as well.  I'll wet sand with 1000-2000-3000 when I want a really nice body, but typically I'll just get a really nice final wet coat (as @Willy iine describes) and then just do some compounding with 105 and finish up with 205 polish.  They are both diminishing abrasive technology which is wonderful and they work very well, cheap and readily available too.  I'll use them by hand at times, but for RCs a nice 3" foam pad on a DA works reall well.  The paint is a lot thinner than automotive grade paint so you have to be careful, but unless you really heat it up or use a lot of pressure you should be fine.  

[Willy iine 18804]

So this morning I sprayed Willy's drill press with the decorative glossy red top.. this is just straight out of the can (Tamiya TS8). No polishing.  No orange peel.   Final wet coat is the only trick (?) I use as noted earlier in one of my posts. 

[JeffSpicoli 1363]

I dealt with this on my BRAT, it's frustrating as badword.  Painting is a real skill.   I think it's about a lot of practice.

I have been putting my Tamiya paint cans in hot water before I spray, for a few minutes, and then trying to be as robotic as possible with spraying.  And doing quick bursts and lots of shaking.

I think the next hard body I do, I will do a clear coat sep on top of the regular paint and see how it goes.

I'll be doing a Wild Willy soon in a tropical theme so we'll see how that goes.   I'm kinda not looking forward to it. HA.

[KEV THE REV 2307]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, KEV THE REV said:

WOW , that Scorcher looks BOSS !!

Now I need to get this done now ,  it's only been on the back burner for about 17 years . Don't worry , the Striker wheels are long gone

Work has started on this project again , the chassis restoration is almost completed , then the bodywork task will begin

[Willy iine 18804]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:04 PM, KEV THE REV said:

Work has started on this project again , the chassis restoration is almost completed , then the bodywork task will begin

GL, KEV THE REV!     

I don't remember, but were the door handles removable on the SandScorchers?  I used re-re bodies on mine and I thought they were molded onto the doors.. (?)

[KEV THE REV 2307]

9 hours ago, Willy iine said:

GL, KEV THE REV!     

I don't remember, but were the door handles removable on the SandScorchers?  I used re-re bodies on mine and I thought they were molded onto the doors.. (?)

Yes , they were seperate items in chrome , Original C parts tree , parts C3 , hard to find now in good condition .There isn't much of a gluing area to glue the handles on so most fell off when running the models , and you need to scratch off the chrome to get the glue to stick as it won't bond to chrome and I suppose this didn't get done in a lot of cases , so again they would fall off , hence future re-re shells have molded handles .