silvertriple 3472 Posted May 11, 2022 Unexpected, somehow I still have no words for what is happening right now. And I need to tell the long story, as it is part of what came as a result of the Nichimo Spirit FF project for me. Few weeks back, an Australian guy mentioned he was searching rear arms for a Nichimo FF car in one comment of my posts on Facebook. I had the link as I had a set in my ebay watch list (for no reason as the intention was to get them printed anyway), so I gave him the link... Discussing with another friend I discovered this guy was behind a Youtube channel (TRUE VINTAGE RC, https://www.youtube.com/user/Bormac073), and looking at few videos, I found them quite interesting and detailed, so I subscribed... Few weeks later (it was about 3 or 4 weeks ago), my Nichimo Spirit FF was printed and built. And that week, that same guy, Jason, alias @BORMAC, posted he needed parts as he received an incomplete kit from Europe. Among the missing part, there was some which I could help with my own now unused parts as replaced by 3D printed ones, and the broken chassis I thought myself I could not do anything with it. Jason told me he would get the buyer to pay for the shipment, and I told ok, and on the next day, the parts were going to Australia (and if I can see a nice video on those cars, that will be a nice bonus already). 2 weeks ago, I was in the car sitting doing nothing as one of my colleagues was driving while we went back from a 3 day trip for business... And Jason contacted me as he found a car in France on ebay, but the seller would not ship to Australia... He asked me if I can help again. I said why not. Jason knew from the discussions we had earlier that I would be interested to model that car as well, and he proposed me not only to get the car going to me, but to allow me to tear it down to parts, get it in CAD and then send the package to him... I was finding this a bit crazy, a lot of gamble (specially with a seller who got only to feedbacks on ebay), but that was Jason gamble... On the next days, I helped him a bit with the translation, gave him my full details so he can eventually get it send to me, but I was kind of thinking that story could turn in a nightmare as well... This morning I got advised (I had the tracking link so I knew it was incoming) that I had to get the parcel from the destination point (a relay nearby). Jason told me "it's going to be amazing or a nightmare". Here is what was in the package: A Nichimo RC Midships 443 WDS. So it is definitely amazing :-) Some parts are common with the FF cars, and I'll start to model it soon This is typically the kind of things that tells me that putting the stls on Thingiverse for the Spirit FF was a good thing. I have the authorization from this car owner to do a proper thread, and I'll start that as soon as I start to tear the car down to parts... Well, I was not really able to wait that much to do something. I need a empty box to get it down to parts, so I just started to have a look at something easy for today. I took a wheel off, and modeled the rim. That was quick to start. I could not help doing it :-) I'll get a box tomorrow while on the way back from the office and the car will get a proper tear down. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snappy1 964 Posted May 12, 2022 Small world, I know Jason, he is a great guy and local to me, What a great find for you both. by the time Jason has finished with that car it will be amazing.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWarty 1325 Posted May 12, 2022 I never knew this car even existed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 12, 2022 1 hour ago, NWarty said: I never knew this car even existed There was 6 off road 1/10 cars in the Nichimo RC range. 2 Front Wheel Drive : Spirit FF and Vantage FF They both used the same chassis, internal gear and gearbox, only body and roll cage was different 2 443WDS (4 Wheels drive, 4 Steering and 3 shocks) : Exceed Pegasus and Midships Technically interesting. Lot of very innovative ideas. But you'll have more details once I start to tear it off. both cars shared the same chassis. only the body and roll cage changed. 1 Rear Wheel drive : Cosmo Shooter 1 4 Wheel drive : Luminous For those last two, I've not much looked into the details. I can't find any appeal to them. The motor is too highly positioned, which means to drive it was likely a nightmare... But they had also some interesting innovative features, but I'm unlikely to detail them down in the near future... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 13, 2022 Yesterday, while coming back from the office, I got another box, so I can start to tear the car down to parts (note for later, once this car is going back to Australia, that means there will be another car that can start :-) ). After the dinner, I started to get the car down to parts. There is a lot of screws on the roll cage itself. This car was never thought for easy maintenance, clearly. After quite a good time, the roll cage is separated from the rest of the car... Another lot of screws, I opened the chassis and the internal are now visible, I also see some cracks here and there (nothing really surprising, this is a Nichimo)... Basically, I stopped yesterday at this point, and restarted today after my day of work. After a lot of work, I got the front and rear train separated from the chassis (quite a lot of screws again). While doing this I was also assessing what is the same as the Spirit FF and what is different. There was two recipients on the table to separate the to be modeled from the already modeled... The central diff is also acting as a slipper clutch At the end, I put the elements I need to model on my plate (at the exception of the tire), while the rest is in the box. That will be interesting 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 13, 2022 The front gearbox is quite different from the Spirit FF, although it has some common design cues. And just to give an idea how the difference is: And that will be even more complex in Fusion 360 : many of my reference points where taken from the motor face of the gearbox. It's a bit more complex that what I envisioned without having the parts in hands. There is still lot in common though. The most complex parts will be chassis (bottom and top), gearbox parts and roll cage sides... The rest should be easy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 14, 2022 Let's start easy... Top rear arm! One sketch to define the surface, one to define the face, and one to define the sway bar attachment... And this is done Looking at the bottom arms, I believe it will be an headache, as it is not plan... It will require more thinking 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 14, 2022 I scratched my head looking at the bottom rear arms... Looking at them, they are not flat. And I checked it is the same on the other side. Analysing a bit more, it looks it could be deformation due to the car sitting on wheels for long time. Very likely. In my chat one Exceed fleet owner was just bugging me to ask a question. I took the chance and asked him to check on his cars... And in the meantime, I decided to proceed to the design starting by the carrier face this time... Within a few minutes, response came with pics : NIP arms are plan, so that is becoming easier. Anyway, without the confirmation, I would have modeled them flat, as looking at the other arms, having them different from flat would sound illogical... Once this was done, I proceeded the same way as the other arm. And this is another part being done... Looking at what I'm doing next 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 14, 2022 I started next the motor plate. I decided to proceed this way as I thought it would be easier to do this way, and to have the reference points when dealing with the gearbox (not like I did with the Spirit FF). One single sketch, all measurements in.... And that's it I printed .4 mm thickness to check the measurements. I had one misread dimension and I corrected. This part is now done. What next? :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 14, 2022 Further analysis of the Front gearbox shows few additional differences than the obvious ones, but nothing that can't be changed with some sketch and extrusions... That being said, one of the difference will require more work. Two approaches are possible : option 1: rebuild it the hard way using the same sketch as the one I created for the Spirit FF gearbox option 2: take the Spirit FF gearbox, cut it and add what is required For the rear gearbox, although there is common design cues and some common definition data, I believe only the first option is valid. In the Spirit FF the angle is used to define some elements, and I checked, it doesn't work with the angle being equal to zero (that would have been so much easy otherwise :-) ). In terms of advantages both options have their pros and cons: for option 1, It would be nicer and a chance to have proper sketches. The option 2 is probably much faster... I won't do it directly, I'll sleep on this, and tomorrow, it's initiation and demo track session at one of the clubs. I said I'll be there to help, so I'll probably work on this tomorrow afternoon or evening... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 15, 2022 After a good day on carpet indoor track sessions, alternatively with the M06 and with the Lunchbox (trust me or not, but the Lunchbox is far from ridiculous on a track when you know the trick), I went back to my desk around 16:30... Once Fusion 360, I first took a cutout of the Spirit FF gearbox design while making sure I would keep the right references when breaking it... Then I created a Midships core gearbox (basically the key and common elements)... I could not directly do the left gearbox, because this is common to the right side... Then I did a mirror and make the necessary correction to have my right gearbox... Advantage of doing it this way is that I know it meshes, because it meshes on the Spirit FF. Next will be to get back on the core, correct what needs correction for the left side (basically what I needed for the right side), and then deal with the Motor extension... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 15, 2022 As planned, got back on the core gearbox, and added the Motor extension. I basically draw the extension on the rear face of the gearbox, and extruded it from there, with some offset. I just used the motor plate to position the motor fixation holes... And I finished by an easy work to reproduce the front plate added to fix the motor without breaking the gearbox. For the content of the front gearbox, there is few elements remaining to be modeled : the center differential (which is also the slipper clutch), and the setting system (which is the reason the hole on the motor plate is not a circle on the differential side... But I'll probably tackle the rear gearbox first... I closed Fusion360 for today... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 16, 2022 Started to work on the rear gearbox... First as usual, my work is starting by observation But this time while doing the observation, I had some sketch to compare with my caliper and assess/confirm commonalities and differences As said yesterday, I can't really use the original sketch as the angle is not workable (even if I play with a non zero value close to 0)... So this is going to be the hard way. I started to put the key definitions on one single sketch that I intend to use for both right and left side with some amendments. After 2 hours of work, I have my main definitions... More time will be required, I won't finished this tonight, but at least, I'm in the good path again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 17, 2022 I had my sketch ready. The plan was to do common things, do a mirror, and then do things as per each side... I started to do common things... Then pursue to add more common things... The mirror did not worked the way I wanted as I did not succeed to include the sketchs. I decided to pursue the left side to the end I then apply the mirror and did the required modifications for the right side, and I have now a complete rear gearbox I'm looking at what I'll do next : Chassis or Transmission? I had my sketch ready. The plan was to do common things, do a mirror, and then do things as per each side... I started to do common things... Then pursue to add more common things... The mirror did not worked the way I wanted as I did not succeed to include the sketchs. I decided to pursue the left side to the end I then apply the mirror and did the required modifications for the right side, and I have now a complete rear gearbox I'm looking at what I'll do next : Chassis or Transmission? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 19, 2022 I resumed my CAD activity at the end of my day of work yesterday. The idea was to go as far as possible within the evenning on the Chassis CAD model. I learned a lot while doing the Spirit FF CAD model, and this should easy the work here. Plan : define the main volume, shell it, add the cut outs and details and finish... Started by a sketch with the main volumes definition. Then I did some extrusions to get to the next steps, and a lateral cut for the front. Looking at the chassis, the fillets are there before we can shell, the front details as well. This mean I had to add them before applying the shell. At the next step, I applied the shell, and start to define my cut outs (here the front one is done). Then the motor cut out... (I have sketched this one on the rear face, and when applying the cut out on the length, it sort of confirms the measurements are right ) Once you have that, next is to add all the details... Last, I worked out the rear gearbox attachment, and I have te Midships/Exceed chassis... For the Spirit FF, the chassis was slightly less complex, and it took me 3 days to get it done. Here it was more complex, and it took me 5 hours and a half to get there. Seems I'm getting faster :-) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 19, 2022 Today, I decided to start the top chassis. I won't finish today most likely for lot of non rc reasons. As usual when tackling a complex part, the most important is the plan... The top chassis is a combination of multiple bodies each with with chamfer and fillets, and that's exactly what we are going to do before shelling the combination. Once this will be done, there will be cut outs on the faces, and then set of sketches for fixations and various holes... I first started by a partial projection of the bottom chassis where I started to plot all the bodies, with the intention of applying sketches on the face and do cuts using those sketches to bodies individually... After few extrusions with "new body" rather than "joins", some sketchs, with cut extrusions applied differently depending of the bodies, here is what I had... That's tricky, it requires to think your bodies the way you want to apply the sketches but it works... Another set of sketch later to complete the front with new bodies and cuts, I could combine all the bodies and apply the shell... Looking at the comments of some in other forums, I was afraid it would not work, but it worked like a charm... Next is cut-outs, fixations and holes and finition details... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 20, 2022 Early wake up this morning... I had some time to do the top cut outs before starting my day of work. I had only the top faces to deal with. I first draw the cutout for the servo head (yesterday I had the check for the measurements and a standard servo should fit under but it is super tight), and for the air cooling feed (this is were the air scoop goes). Then I went thru my working (boring) day. And at the end, reopened Fusion 360 to add the other remaining details. I added all of them (except the ribs) in one sing sketch and here is the result. The top chassis is now in. The next step will be about the Midships specific parts : roll cage and bodyshell. For this I will need to get the gearboxes and chassis together so I can join the parts on the same plan. I opened a new file, included the chassis and gearboxes in, and add joints between the parts. I will obviously copy the file once all the common elements are added in and before starting the roll cage, so I can actually get it ready for an Exceed model :-D Basically, what do I need to model to get there : - central differential components - central shaft - metal motor cooler part (2) - metal shock towers : the component is the same as the Spirit FF one minus one bent What I have already thanks to the Spirit FF and common to the 443WDS cars : - shocks - dogbones - knuckles (front and rear are the same, they are just inverted) - sway bars (front and rear are the same) - rear steering feed rod - servo horn - Bumper and bumper plate - front arms - front and rear differntial - shocks (color is different, that's all, but I'll keep my CAD black and red because red :-) ) - ... It's on a good path, but now I remember how pain it is to joint all the parts together... I may procrastinate a bit before getting there :-) (especially considering we are two weeks close from the club vintage event, and i have 3 cars to finish/start : the Samurai, a Kyosho Spider TF3, and a Galaxy RS for my son) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 21, 2022 After my last post, I started to work out assemblies. I added the battery door hinge to the rear assembly I had the idea that making assembly will help me to check key measurements and design. As expected, it helps, a lot. The battery door helped to spot a mistake in the placement of a key measure (the second measure i plot in the first sketch was not exactly positioned rightly. It's fixed, now. Then I added the parts that goes on the front gearbox and are common to both Midships and Exceed. The bumper plate holes are lining up perfectly and that is a good sign In this file I'll add whatever is common to both cars. The front train components will be added in the front gearbox subassembly. The rear end components will be added the rear gearbox subassembly. Now they are joined together, I just have to update references in the main file. component that will be added in the chassis file are the central shaft, the servo and its horn, and the input steering rods. I've created 2 other files, in which the chassis assembly is linked. - one for the Midships - one for the Exceed They will include at some point : their respective wheels, body shells, wing and roll cage. Exceed wise, a parcel arrived today. There was a mix of Exceed and Midships inside. I decided to pull the trigger on it for multiple reasons: the exceed roll cage will help for me, as well as the metal parts, shocks and other components if I decide to print one Exceed (I started to develop some love the ugly ducky look of that beast). The chassis, bumper and other plastic part will be eventually helpful for Jason as the chassis he got is in quite bad shape, with cracks that don't look good at the end. The bumper was a good indication, and that is the reason I was confortable to bet on this. And I'm sure now to have everything to be able to complete the CAD model of both cars (except the Exceed body shell, but I'll order one at TBG at some point :-) ). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 21, 2022 I spend most of my afternoon in the car, as I had to deliver my motorbike to the dealer for servicing. I discussed with the dealer, he's a friend, and he is following my stuff on Facebook. He does restore old motorbikes, and he told me he liked my work... Very pleasurable to see that people, even if they do not react follow and like the work. Back at home around 5pm, I decided to prepare the transmission work. For that I decided to put the existing parts into the the design. I created a differential assembly and put it in both front and rear gearboxes. I had to model the front axis as it is longer than for the Spirit/Vantage FF cars and it has some specificities on the central diff end. The Spirit FF axis is however there for the rear. I'll add other things later on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 23, 2022 After the short but effective Samurai break, let's get back on the Nichimo... First, I was highlighted that there is some differences between the Midships to chassis and Exceed top chassis. Analysis of the instruction manuals shows they use a different MSC. My car is a indeed a Midships chassis with an Exceed roll cage. I therefore contacted an owner with multiple instances of Exceed to get some measurements and further detail pictures... Few minutes later on that was sorted out, and I have now as well an Exceed top chassis. I also worked out the shock towers (Spirit/Vantage minus one bent), and the battery retainers (inverted from the FF cars). (and if you are asking yourself, this is actually a picture of each chassis in its current state)... Then had a look at my front gearbox to note down some key information, that will be of use later on. (I could spend hours looking at those views)... This morning, I started by putting some additional elements on the front train.... And as I'd like to be able to complete the front gearbox, I need to get into the details of the center differential Spur gear is 54T, Module .8. Once this is clear, that was quite quick to get the part into Fusion360... Next is the two pressure rings - very easy to deal with as well... Had a look into the bevel gears, and they are in module 1. Smalls are 10T while bigs are 14T... This is my next activity, basically :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 23, 2022 My wife was managing a go live in her company this morning, and she is having her desk in our room when she is working home. The result is that I woke up quite unusually early this morning. And it seems that my neurons are melting right now... I did progress this afternoon, but sometimes it was more difficult than usually... First, I did check the data for the bevel gears on the same calculator I used when I did the bevel gears for the Spirit. Once you know the cone information, it is easy to derive the data from there. First you use a plugin to create spur gears in the proper module and move them as per their definition rings. Next you pivot them on their contact point as per the angle defined by the cone (check the calculator for this). And you Loft the profile of the tooth on the cone... And you repeat this for the next bevel gear Then a mirror for each bevel gears, and you get your diff bevel gears.... Next was the rest slipper rings and spring rings... (I may need to do the full transmission like this. On the box art there is just this representation (with different colors), and I find it would make sense to have the same with the front and rear diffs as well :-) ) I've put the diff in the gearbox, and I'm not too happy with it. I do have to model a few elements which would add into the gearbox : flanged ball bearing and setting system. and there is one of the axis missing. once this will be done, i'll have 5 part to add to get the full transmission done... It definitely goes faster than what I expected... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 23, 2022 After my last post, I was supposed to stop the Fusion 360 work... But I'm in vacation currently, it was raining outside, and I have this front gearbox bugging me... Reviewed all the parts and positions one by one, identified a few mistakes (i'm no perfect), and corrected everything, and completed with the additional missing parts, washer and spacers. Only things missing are now the motor and its pinion... At this stage, some of the parts of the differential don't have the minimum thickness to be printed anyway... I'll try to do something, but when you have .5mm of material and no room to increase this there is no other option than to reinvent the differential. I may eventually do that at some point (I've been contacted by a Nichimo owner asking for a solution to be able to use an Exceed without the slipping differential issue), but for the time being, I'll finish the CAD model, and I'll try to understand how this things work in reality (I suspect I'll have to work without printed gears this time :-) but that may be for later...)... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 24, 2022 Added knuckles assemblies within the rear gearbox Once that was done, I went to the chassis to add the propeller shaft. I had a doubt on the full chassis dimensions but I think i'm not in bad shape Transmission is now complete... (I'll have to work out an exploded full transmission). I still have to add motor, pinion and radiator material (2 parts), and this will be done in the chassis file, as I need both front gearbox and chassis for the dimensions... While at it, I also added the servo savers. Shocks are the same as the spirit, and steering tie rods as well, at the exception of the input rods (and there is 2 of them); sway bars are the same as the front Spirit one. In short, still missing (not in CAD yet - taking into consideration what I have from the Spirit): - radiator (2 parts) - input steering rods - servo horn - Midships : body shell, wing, roll cage (10 parts), resistors support, tire, wheel hub - Exceed : body shell, wing, roll cage (8 parts) resistor support (wheels, hubs are the same as the Spirit) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 25, 2022 Progressing small step by small steps... Had to add the motor on the gearbox to build the cooler component... It's presently with a 15T pinion (there is 2 other positions for 12T and 18T pinions - I'll talk about it later ). While at it, I checked the pinion was lining up with the spur gear of the differential. Once this was done, my first action was to check the chassis... and I had to rework the motor cut slightly. After having done the modification, I also check with the extreme position (18T) to see if it worked Next I designed the motor cooler. 3 parts : one on each side of the motor, and another that close the chassis. The right part is also going under the chassis and participate as a reinforcing it... On the bottom view, it gave me an occasion to check the position of the chassis fixation holes. and they were wrong of a 1/4 of millimeter. That was quite quick to correct I had also a small issue on the top chassis, and that was corrected as well... Yesterday evenning, I added the shocks to the common file And this morning added all the rods and rear sway bar. The front one need to be added on the respective files as there is some specific part that also serves as support for the roll cage... Front sway bar aside, all the mechanical elements are now done. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silvertriple 3472 Posted May 25, 2022 After my last post, I did tackle some Lexan (virtual one, even though I have a bodyshell to cut for one of the car I need to finish)... First, I focus on the Ari scoop, which is common to both Midhsips and Exceed if my understanding is correct... I used the same principle as with the top chassis : multiple bodies and cut applied distinctively to bodies before combining them and apply the shell... Then I had one other complex part to deal with: the body shell. Compared to it, the wing will be very easy. First started to create a sketch to describe the top view (the picture doesn't have everything, as I added other thins later on. Once that was done, I defined y different bodies. The platform, the center part, and other additions, and again applied features to each of the bodies distinctively before combining and apply the shell... Once the shell was applied, I just had to finalise and work on the sides... And I did not resist to apply some paint to it :-) (The summary is quite short compared to what it was really... :-) ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites