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Saito2

Purpose of the Avante 2001

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The Avante 2001 is the one Avante series car I have no first hand knowledge of. They were rare around me BITD as no hobby shop would carry it, being stung by the mishaps of the original Avante. For those that do have the knowledge, did the 2001 improve on anything over the Egress (geometry-wise for example, I'm well aware the Egress was slotted above it in the line-up) or was it just a budget version of the Egress? On one hand, I had guessed at one time, Tamiya was merely getting a bit more mileage out of the platform before moving on, while trading on the Avante (albeit, tarnished in my neck of the woods) nameplate. On the other, its possible Tamiya made some tiny improvements as that chassis family was one that seemed to received tweaks as it progressed.

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It was in fact a budget version of the Egress built somewhere between the materials level of the original Avante and the Vanquish. I imagine the body design was an effort to cash in on Avante.  However it did have a couple minor developments.  The addition of metal braces where the rear trailing arms connect to forward part of the chassis, as well as a narrower steering bridge.  It is possible the braces where only necessary to reinforce the weaker FRP chassis (vs egress carbon fiber), so it's hard to tell if they had any performance benefit.  The steering bridge however, served as a band-aid to help address the lack of steering Ackerman caused by a bad steering knuckle design.  I haven't verified this in CAD, but I was told this by another user.

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You mention Ackerman angle which does change with steering link geometry.  The poor design of the steering knuckles had more effect on scrub radius... which is terrible on all Avante series with those knuckles.  The front wheels steer way outside of the steering knuckle axis.  This also causes the front wheels to apply more leverage and force back into the steering when you hit a bump or land nose heavy on one front wheel.  You need a very forgiving servo saver to cope with this force if your running proper off road.

 

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Yes absolutely... The scrub radius is bad. The wobbling of the front wheels is very obvious when driving these cars.

The Ackerman problem stemmed from the right-angle formed between the steering pivot and tie-rod ball joint (relative to the axle). A normal Ackerman geometry (from my limited research) requires the tie-rod ball joint to be moved inboard creating an angle that points back toward the rear center of the car. The Avante series had no angle so both pointed straight back parallel to one another.

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Totally agree and I think the answer is both... a budget version of the Egress and also with some tiny improvements to steering and suspension !   The 2001 front lower damper mount position is an improvement which also transferred over to the Egress (2013) all those years later.  The 2001 steering plate was an improvement that also allowed the front suspension more up travel.  This is because the suspension could travel further without the inner ball adjuster on the tie rod fouling on the plate. 

Does anyone know if the 2001 has less bump steer with the narrow steering plate compared to Avante / Egress ?

 

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Hmmm, is it possible to find this steering plate, a replica or template to make one for myself to add to my Egress?  I have always been bothered by the was the inner ball adjust hits the plate on full compression of the front suspension.

Also, what is the ideal front shock mounting angle? Tamiya went from nearly laydown with the Avante to midway up with the Vanquish to nearly vertical with the original Egress and then back to midway with the 2001. Can the Egress even bottom out the front end with the shocks sitting upright like that with the original lower BF lower mount plates?

6 hours ago, Thommo said:

You need a very forgiving servo saver to cope with this force if your running proper off road.

Forgiving as in firm or soft in its action? 

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32 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Hmmm, is it possible to find this steering plate, a replica or template to make one for myself to add to my Egress?  I have always been bothered by the was the inner ball adjust hits the plate on full compression of the front suspension.

Also, what is the ideal front shock mounting angle? Tamiya went from nearly laydown with the Avante to midway up with the Vanquish to nearly vertical with the original Egress and then back to midway with the 2001. Can the Egress even bottom out the front end with the shocks sitting upright like that with the original lower BF lower mount plates?

Forgiving as in firm or soft in its action? 

 

Front shock position depends on the surface.  The Avante Hop Up shock tower worked really well.  I still don't think it fully bottoms out though.  The upright OG Egress shock set up with BF8/9 comes nowhere close to bottoming out.

The kit P parts servo saver... too loose and you can get the front wheels bouncing or wobbling as @94eg! mentioned.  Tamiya heavy duty servo saver with one circular spring omitted is the G O.

 

 

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In my opinion the Avante 2001 is the best looking of this series. More sleek than the original Avante and I like that it has a driver unlike the Egress. I sold mine a few years ago but I might be tempted again in the future.

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I traced out the steering in CAD (2D) and found the Avante 2001 steering bridge gives about a +1° increase in Ackerman. Surprisingly it also gives the inside wheel +2° of steering angle and the outside wheel +1°.

No way to calculate bump steer without modeling the entire suspension in 3D.

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Does anybody have a comparison pic of the steering plates/bridges? It sticks in my mind I've seen such a pic, but I can't seem to fid it.

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Egress/Vanquish

b_47388.jpg

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Avante 2001

Tamiya-Steering-Plate-Avante-2001-4305260.jpg

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Is the 2001 Avante a collectors item or not really?  I did not know much about this car (or any buggy for that matter post 80's HotShot :ph34r:) until reading this thread..

Thanks for the knowledge.  

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I’d say the purpose of the Avante was to recoup investment costs and use the name to garner more sales. The Egress was one of the most expensive cars of all time when released, the 2001 got you into the game at near 50 percent reduction in cost.

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Also, it's purpose was to look totally kick ***. Now that the Avante, Black Special and the Egress have been re re re re re'd a gazillion times, and they've delivered the goods with the VQS the market is primed for a 2001 re re.  

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Yeah, I wouldn’t mind adding one in my collection as well! 

 

 oh wait, I don’t have the display space.. :ph34r:

Is it Fall 2023 yet?  :ph34r:

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I´m in love with the 2001, too. Have 2 now in the meantime, one shelf queen to restore, and one runner.

@Saito2: If I rember correctly, you are located in Germany? I may have a original 2001 steering bridge I could send you as a template! 

I modified an Egress one carbon fibre to 2001 size for my Avante 89´project.;)

 

Greets,

Matthias

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5 minutes ago, ruebiracer said:

@Saito2: If I rember correctly, you are located in Germany? I may have a original 2001 steering bridge I could send you as a template! 

No, I am located in the States unfortunately. Thank you very much for the offer however!:)

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Oh, there I was mixing something up. But maybe I could make some measuremnets for the position of the holes, if that helps you!?

 

Kind regards,

Matthias

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24 minutes ago, ruebiracer said:

But maybe I could make some measuremnets for the position of the holes, if that helps you!?

That would be of great help. Thank you!

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The Avante 2001 also had the centre ball diff like the Vanquish.

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^Yes. Along with the standard front & rear gear diffs.

BTW: Tamiya already re-released the 2001 body set as an accessory to the Egress 2013. It was limited edition and disappeared fast. I ordered one and it arrived damaged (eyeroll) having been packed inside a box that wasn't tall enough.

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10 hours ago, 94eg! said:

^Yes. Along with the standard front & rear gear diffs.

BTW: Tamiya already re-released the 2001 body set as an accessory to the Egress 2013. It was limited edition and disappeared fast. I ordered one and it arrived damaged (eyeroll) having been packed inside a box that wasn't tall enough.

I got a body set for my original shelf queen back then from RC mart, which was fine. But I was also shocked, how quick it sold out...

 

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Ah yes, that's where I ordered it from. My mistake was probably not ordering more stuff lol

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On 6/1/2022 at 12:30 AM, Saito2 said:

That would be of great help. Thank you!

Hi Saito, was on a business trip to replace a collegue, but will measure tomorrow the hole distances for you!

Sorry for the delay!

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