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toyolien

Top Force Evo for Racing. What should I do?

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I've always loved the look of the Top Force, particularly when I used to race against them with my Manta Ray in 1991/2. I've been thinking recently about building one for the local vintage class that runs over the summer.

I guess I'd start off with an Evo kit?

My questions to all those that race (or have raced) a Top Force, are these:

If there was no budget:

  • What would you upgrade, replace for aluminium, hop up etc etc?
  • What plastics are prone to cracking?
  • Which diffs are preferred?

 

At the moment, this is just an idea, but I'm interested to get a parts list together, and maybe go from there.

Thanks for any help, advice or suggestions.

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I'm not totally versed in the ways of the Top Force as the Egress is more my jam, but there have been things to consider over the years. How harsh is the course (high jumps etc.) and how often do you plan to crash? I ask because the TF is chock full of unreinforced plastics. The front knuckles are fine if you avoid accidents and the plastics are fresh but aluminum replacements will buy you some insurance. The arms are a fairly resilient material although I have seen people use ball studs/lower shock ends here (at least on TF, I'm not sure what the Evo uses stock) as the step screws can pull out. The front lower gear cover doubles as the front lower arm mount, so there's a lot of stresses going on here. There are aluminum replacements, but the one I tried years ago (GPM perhaps?) did not fit satisfactorily for my standards). I've personally experienced fractures in the front box where the screw bosses for the lower cover are located. In one case, a member on here had the whole front case shatter in competition.

Use the touring car all-plastic gear set and a steel pinion in conjunction with a metal motor mount. The rear upper gear cover can raise under load so anything you do to keep it down will help with stripping gears. Some make braces and drill through the tapping screw bosses to fit machine screws and nuts. The left rear shock tower mounting screw can be replaced with a longer machine screw and nut. The nut will actually rest on the gear cover, helping to hold it down. Speaking of the rear shock tower, it can be vulnerable in roll overs. Folks sometimes fashion braces to tie it into the rear gear cover. I use the hot screw assembly method everywhere to reduce initial stress fracture from starting which leads to weak points and breakage down the road. I've also used e-clip pins on the rear arms and fashioned a tie bar like the Super Astute to protect the rear gearbox as the mounts are (foolishly) molded into it.

That's a good start. Of course if you are good driver and the course is sane and power levels are reasonable, much of this may be overkill.

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I saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l4yRm01Mus

looks interesting, someone had made a conversion kit to make it into a oil filled gear diff.  i sent email asking for price.

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I built my Top Force with hi caps, titanium turnbuckles, plastic gears and alloy motor mount to start. From relatively light running (except kids, kids are hard on cars so its had a lot of crashes and been stood on).

Front lower gearbox cover broke, but when stood on. I went with the Xtraspeed one I think and it took a bit of fiddling but fits fine.

Front knuckles. Replaced with aluminium, the plastic ones broke and I'm not sure how

Front diff outdrives. Probably related to the front knuckle.

There are carbon fibre shock towers available (the Evo probably comes with them) which would be a good option too. The kit FRP ones haven't broken but they don't seem that strong. The Dyna Storm front tower I got from fibrelyte for my Super Astute is much more substantial.

A slipper pinion would be a good idea too if you can find one to fit

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Needs: if carpet is the choice venue go to the mantaray gear diffs and tune with diff putty. Might even be the way for real off-road too,  Big bore shocks are nice but here’s a nice not too know fact the rere EVO uses big bore springs buy the big bore spring set to tune, speed gear set, metal motor mount and this gear cover to fortify the rear shock tower. The make of this gear box cover also makes parts that alow the use of db01 arms etc. how much do you want ti spend becomes the Question.

BDE8CECD-5307-4ED2-98B6-424D9032118C.thumb.png.3b8b2706201a14e433ffd817c50fc6e5.png

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Thanks for all the replies. The track is a purpose built astro track with bumps and humps but no jumps as such. Certainly lots to think about. I didn't realise there was so much that could do with changing. Thought it would be a couple of alloy parts and off I go...

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You could go with the alot stuff and go and you will be fine, it’s a great chassis.  Heck you could just leave it stock and go, replace

mod as needed!

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22 hours ago, toyolien said:

Thanks for all the replies. The track is a purpose built astro track with bumps and humps but no jumps as such. Certainly lots to think about. I didn't realise there was so much that could do with changing. Thought it would be a couple of alloy parts and off I go...

The Top Force does seem pretty durable from my running.  The things I've broken have been kid related and are no way normal use.  Mine was built as "what 14yo me would have done" so I've got a brushed motor as well.  It spends most of its life on the shelf (mostly because pesky kids want a turn!) and looks amazing.  

I guess you will start with an Evo (guess what was released not long after I built mine!) so you will have a lot of the parts already

They are such a good looking car when running, you won't regret it!

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Just had a read through that thread. Very informative. However, I've now decided to go with an Optima Mid instead. I was going to build the Mid for fun and race a Top Force but decided to see how durable the Mid is. Time will tell...

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1 hour ago, toyolien said:

I was going to build the Mid for fun

Fun build no doubt. 

But for a kit that’s pricier than TFEvo... kinda disappointed Mid kit got no turnbuckles, no CVDs, steering cranks are plastic on plastic bushings, no undertray. 

Kyosho must think we're all just building them for shelf display :rolleyes:

 

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I'm still building a Top Force Evo, so no need to let the thread die. 

 

On 5/29/2022 at 11:05 AM, tpsolid said:

I saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l4yRm01Mus

looks interesting, someone had made a conversion kit to make it into a oil filled gear diff.  i sent email asking for price.

I'm looking into the oil diff. 

Should I do one on the front and the rear?  How much better is oil over ball?  (These cars are my first gear, as all of my older Losi stuff was ball.)

I also have a couple of TT-02B cars (have gears) I was going to get ball diffs for... should I go oil diff instead? 

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One not oil but diff putty. The diffs available for the TF family are not sealed, diff putty is available in different “consistency” that you use to tune.  I’d always run the rear ball diff as it gives some slip to protect the trans. I’d get a gear set up and play with how you like it. 

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2 minutes ago, GTodd said:

One not oil but diff putty. The diffs available for the TF family are not sealed, diff putty is available in different “consistency” that you use to tune.  I’d always run the rear ball diff as it gives some slip to protect the trans. I’d get a gear set up and play with how you like it. 

Forgive me if I don't understand correctly, but how can an oil diff not be sealed?  Won't the oil leak out?

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6 minutes ago, GTodd said:

One not oil but diff putty. The diffs available for the TF family are not sealed, diff putty is available in different “consistency” that you use to tune.  I’d always run the rear ball diff as it gives some slip to protect the trans. I’d get a gear set up and play with how you like it. 

image.thumb.png.228079de2227cc50d200dddc47981a70.png

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Interesting. I always thought people switch to a gear diff in the rear to prevent slippage (which can cause overheating on looser setups). Is the transmission in these cars delicate? I have no experience.

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4 hours ago, 94eg! said:

Interesting. I always thought people switch to a gear diff in the rear to prevent slippage (which can cause overheating on looser setups). Is the transmission in these cars delicate? I have no experience.

Its my understanding that, since they lack a slipper, the rear gearbox can, at times, for some folks, cause issues (mostly involving the upper rear gear cover pulling up, allowing tooth skippage). I would not call it ORV level bad. The use of a ball diff provides a bit of "cushion" to the rear gearbox. This may have been around the time when slippers were just coming into vogue. I know some ball diff slippage was expected in the pre-slipper days which nowadays we always try to prevent. One individual even suggested that's why Tamiya began using ball diffs in the rear of their stadium trucks after the DF01 buggies (TA02T I think) to limit damage

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5 hours ago, 94eg! said:

Is the transmission in these cars delicate?

Compared to contemporary stuff, yes. Stick a lipo powered torqy brushless motor and run these on a high grip astro track with a gear diff and it's likely you'll strip something.

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6 hours ago, Howards said:

image.thumb.png.228079de2227cc50d200dddc47981a70.png

Bro send me the link for that!!!! That’s what you want!!! Oh need that!

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11 hours ago, toyolien said:

Just had a read through that thread. Very informative. However, I've now decided to go with an Optima Mid instead. I was going to build the Mid for fun and race a Top Force but decided to see how durable the Mid is. Time will tell...

If the original Optima is anything to go by, the Mid should fair fine in racing. The rear motor version is built like a tank.

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Youtube video descriptions has the guys email.  I ordered 2 from him around 100USD shipped for 2 units.

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On 5/30/2022 at 2:12 AM, MICHAELs TopForce17 said:

Something like this.

 

 

 

 

281264543_10228367118109080_2709852212427350714_n.jpg

Nice work @MICHAELs TopForce17, is that the Tamiya big bore shocks I see there, is that the larger rears fitted to both front and rear or is it the smaller fronts fitted to the front end? And what spring rates did you go with bud?

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