Jump to content
Gebbly

Transmitter and receiver choice

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

I am just starting into the rc hobby and would like to end up building one of the Tamiya Tanks. (I'm starting off with something a lot simpler, A Wild Willy 2 as a starter, and hope, in time, to progress to a tank). Looking at all the features of the Tamiya tanks they have a lot of functionality so I'm guessing they need quite complex controllers? What sort of controllers do people use for these more complex machines?

I came across a cheap 2nd hand offer on a Frsky Taranis x9D+ recently, would something like this work? If so would it need a Frsky receiver? Or are you able to mix and match transmitters and receivers?

I like the idea of buying a single controller to use for multiple rc vehicles and would like to try and get this Taranis to work for everything from the Wild Willy 2 all the way up to a tank.

Can anyone give any advice please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gebbly said:

Frsky Taranis x9D+

I looked up the radio and it looks nice. Prices vary, I saw used ones going for more than new ones? I don't know why?

Smart to think of that. One transmitter is nice but I would recommend buying extra RX's, Instead of swapping 1 - RX from vehicle to vehicle. Does that radio have many model memory, than I would do it. (so you don't have to reset every time you change vehicles. It looks like it would? That's what I have done with my many vehicles.

That being said. Would you want a steering wheel to drive Willy or is stick control fine? I went with a steering wheel and trigger for cars/trucks. But use stick for semi trucks/tanks/etc. Also for tanks, they only need 4 channel radio to control it. Unless you add extras that need control? Another thing to think of with tanks (what I did) is if you are going to use the BATTLE add on. If so a different radio for each would be needed. Unless you only battle one tank against other people who have their own tank. Just something to think about. 

If you are planning on getting into RC,(BIG) I recommend One or Two Transmitters (Your choice wheel/stick) and separate RX for each vehicle. When I started, I by bought single radio's for each my first kits , and it gets cumbersome with all the different transmitters. Had I known, I would have spent more initial money for a nicer (more channel) radio and expand from there. Which is what I ended up doing in the end. Get the most channels you think you will need and can afford. Down the line you might not have enough channels?

The radio you chose looks nice. I've heard Frsky works good. I personally use Futaba ($$) and Radiolink (-$)radio's.

Another thing to think of is for the tanks, Tamiya offers a simple set up radio for tanks (and others) called FineSpec radio. It has push buttons for functions, such as firing guns/lights.  Instead of sliding the trims and stick to fire a gun, while driving. Another option that is out there. A lot of options.

My thoughts, stuff to think about, hope it helps!:unsure:

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gebbly -  I just looked at the specs. for that radio and it is power packed for the money. If it feels good in your hand and switches, variables, toggles work smooth it seems like a great deal! Make sure RX isn't expensive and available.

24 channels - wow and huge memory.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have one of those, but the previous generation ( accts - 16 channels per RF deck) and it works extremely well for oddball things like tanks and semi tractors.  programming it for things like tank steering mixes are easy...  the level of mixes and states it can support are mind boggling.

you can also bind it to a ton of receivers simultaneously as well, for example, i have 3 receivers in one of my 1/14 semi tractors, one each in the cab and tandem trailers...  each doing things like brake lights and running lights in sync, but other things like motorized lift legs and fifth wheel latching individually.

if the second hand x9d you are looking at is the "accts" model, you can use other accts compatible receivers.  if it is the newer "access" model, you will only be able to use it with frsky brand access receivers.  either way, frsky receivers are not too expensive, costing from $20 to $40 new.

 

one possibility to save some money on receivers would be to buy a multiprotocol module for the transmitter.  those are not too expensive and basically make that transmitter compatible with over 60 different types of receivers...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great tips.

8 hours ago, Tamiya Fan 1 said:

I would recommend buying extra RX's, Instead of swapping 1 - RX from vehicle to vehicle

This sounds like the sensible way to do it and the controller does have a bunch of different memory for different models.

8 hours ago, Tamiya Fan 1 said:

Would you want a steering wheel to drive Willy or is stick control fine?

Last time I drove an rc car was when I built a Hotshot about 35 years ago and stick was all I had back then so I'll stay with that.

8 hours ago, Tamiya Fan 1 said:

they only need 4 channel radio to control

Really?! Wow, I'm surprised. I had assumed that because of turret movement, sound effects, firing main gun, firing machine gun etc I thought each function needed a channel. I have to go do some further reading on R/C and channels.

8 hours ago, Tamiya Fan 1 said:

if you are going to use the BATTLE add on

Is this the infrared playing with other tanks thing? It looks fascinating and I would be tempted to try it. I dont think I will worry about owning multiple tanks. Given their price I will probably just get the one...eventually.

3 hours ago, tim.senecal said:

I have one of those, but the previous generation ( accts - 16 channels per RF deck)

Looking on the front of the controller it says 2.4Ghz ACCST.

3 hours ago, tim.senecal said:

if the second hand x9d you are looking at is the "accts" model, you can use other accts compatible receivers

So far deciding what is a suitable receiver is perhaps the most intimidating part of getting back into the R/C hobby. There seem to be a huge number to choose from and lots of comments on products saying "only works with this and not that". Looking at RC car stores and filtering a receiver search by "waterproof" (I'm paranoid of long grass and puddles) you get 2 or 3 receivers that look like very sealed units. The few ACCST receivers I have seen look like bare circuit boards (susceptible to water damage?).

Am I right in saying that to use this x9D+ in its current state I would need specifically an ACCST receiver? Are there any you would recommend? Particularly for my first use case of a simple Tamiya buggy?

I have seen a couple of "4 in 1" modules that expand the number of protocols the controller supports and am happy to purchase one if it means I can use the controller with Tamiya tanks and cars. I think a standard car would only need 3 channels is that correct?

Has anyone got any advice of suitable receivers that would work in a Tamiya buggy (and in future a receiver that would work in a Tamiya tank) with the X9D+ controller (even if I need to add in one of the multi protocol modules tim.senecal suggests)?

I think things are a little clearer and its reassuring that Tim.Senecal actually uses one of these controllers with an R/C tank. I was starting to worry it could only be used with aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a buggy minimum channel would be 2.  3 channel would let you operate lights remotely.

As far as what RX, worry about it being compatible with the transmitter. They will all work with the vehicle.

For tanks, 2.4 ghz system will work with tank electronics. 4 channel minimum.

The Frsky X9D+ has a lot in it. I went through the specs real quick and it looks power packed for the buck. Maybe to much, might be complicated to figure out? If just starting out in the hobby. Could be frustrating for you? 

Like I said, it depends how serious you want to get into the hobby. Decisions right? 

All 2.4 radio's will work for all kits, it really doesn't matter for that. The quality/precision of stick movement is important. Also turn knobs (potentiometer) can have crappy movement at the model because it is a cheaper radio. You want smooth working functions. There is a difference sometimes, but they all have gotten better. (most)

Most kits will work with anything. Think about how many channels you might need over time. 6-12 channels is usually fine for most expansive builds. (add -ons)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant thanks Tamiya Fan 1.

A lot of the FrSky compatible receivers have a lot of channels because they are aimed at aircraft but their prices are about the same as car receivers so I think I could just ignore some of the channels. After some more reading after guidance here I think something like Radiomaster R168 would work. I know its overkill for a car but its cheap at £20 and works with the x9D+. At that price I might just get one anyway to experiment with the controller.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gebbly,

Again, i actually have a couple of those radiomaster r168 receivers in my inventory.  In fact there are several radiomaster receivers on that site that would work for a buggy, the R86c and the R84 being smaller with fewer channels.

 

Another one that i have quite a few of is this one:

https://www.flyingtech.co.uk/electronics/jumper-r8-ii-d16-sbus-receiver-supports-pixhawk-telemetry

basically identical to the one you listed, except the orientation of the pinouts.  on the radiomaster, servo wires are horizontal, on the jumper, servo wires are vertical.  I have used both, both work fine with my transmitter.

 

If you are concerned about water damaging things (and who isn't) a conformal coating can be applied to the circuit board, which will make it almost indestructible.  search for "waterproof conformal coating"  you can find it as a spray or a bottle which you basically dunk the pcb into.

 

programming the Frsky X and Q series transmitters can be a little daunting, but not too difficult.  I would be happy to help in any way if you decide to pick up the x9d

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tanks have electronics that come with it, called DMD I think. (been a while) All you need is a 4 channel radio to work them. Much like the semi trucks uses the MFC which is sold separately and needs a 4 channel radio also. You slide your trims, move stick to adjust functions. When your ready look into it. Great fun.

Tank's have an accessory (extra) called the Battle System. It is added in (easier to do while building) and it will sense the fire from other tanks and register it till it shuts you down for a little time. 

For cars aka: Wild Willey 2 you only need the 2 channels, but more is ok, just don't use them.

Glad your figuring it out. It is all a learning experience.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for the extra info, both of you.

Tamiya Fan 1 the Battle System does sound fun. I'm going to see if I can find any videos of it in action. A wise man once said Try to learn something new every day, I'm working on it :)

Tim.Senecal, I have grabbed the x9D as it sounds like it can be made to work. I'm grateful for the offer of help, I think I may well need it. I had been avoiding the receivers that said they were D8 because after some reading I was under the impression D8 was illegal in Europe and it had to be D16. Have I got that wrong? Oh, its just dawned on me that you may not be in Europe. I'm in the U.K so I think I'm affected by the D8/D16 regulations.

I'm glad there are alternatives because I havent been able to find anywhere that has the R168 in stock.

Although the R84 may not meet the regulations in Europe (because its D8) I love how small it is. I have a question about it. The connectors from ESC units are usually 3 pin but that R84 picture looks like it has pairs of pins instead. Do you have to connect it up to the ESC differently?

My first step was finding instructions on how to alter the gimbles on the x9D+ so they are both self-centering. That was easy enough as it was just a few screws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know UK and Europe have stricter rules on radio frequencies. I'm from the US. You should be able to look that up. This sight should have info. also. Or some one who knows can chime in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The r84 has horizontal pins, 2 rows, 2 columns (of 3 pins ), instead of the usual 8 columns of 3 (or more) pins.

Since you are in europe, you will definitely have to make sure both the transmitter and receivers are "EU LBT" standard.  I was not sure if the D8 models were compliant, so, i would agree, it is better to be safe than sorry.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gebbly - I just noticed and remembered. When you open Big Rigs and Armor section. Where we are now. At the top is "Tank Faqs" it is a good read all about Tamiya tanks. Alot of "know how" there.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tim.Senecal thanks that makes sense now youve said it. I've seen several receivers that seem to have pairs of pins and they must all be using that horizontal arrangement you describe. That may open up more options :) I'll make a note to check the receivers are "EU LBT" as you say, thanks for the warning. I'll do some more research on available receivers but so far that "Jumper R8 II" you linked to seems to be the best bang for the buck that is in stock somewhere. The FrSky RX6R looks like a smaller simpler unit but offers less functionality for a higher price, guess I'd be paying for the name there.

Tamiya Fan 1, thanks. I started looking at the FAQ posting. There is indeed lots of good info there. The description of choosing tanks was interesting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I now have a Taranis x9D+. I notice that Frsky now have multiple protocols, ACCSTv1, ACCSTv2 and ACCESS. I need to make sure I have a receiver with the correct protocol to match my transmitter. Does anyone know how I can definitively tell which of the 3 protocols my transmitter is using?

The bits of info I have gathered:

On the back of the transmitter there is a small round sticker saying "EU LBT", so I guess I have the European version

On the front of the transmitter on the screen surround it says "2.4GHz ACCST", so that would mean EU-LBT ACCST.

So far so good. But now I need to know which version of ACCST.

Looking at https://intofpv.com/t-how-to-tell-what-firmware-i-have-on-my-frsky-taranis

I checked the modes I can select when setting up a model and those are "D16" and "LR12" so according to that article I have "the newer EU-LBT firmware" Would that imply ACCSTv2?

In the Version screen I can see

VERS: 2.1.6

DATE: 2015-12-29

EEPR: 217

Does this imply ACCSTv2?

Perhaps I should try and flash the transmitter myself so I know for sure which version I have? I note from https://oscarliang.com/accst-2/ that "ACCST 2.0 doesn’t support 3rd party receivers" a rather dirty move by FrSky. So I think I would prefer ACCSTv1.

In preparation in case people suggest I am on ACCSTv2 I have downloaded every file from https://davesdronedesigns.com/frsky-firmwares/ so I can switch back to ACCSTv1 if need be.

Just when I think I have something figured out a complication appears

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose another option if the transmitter is on ACCSTv2 is to get one of the 4-in-1 modules to put in the back and that way I would have access to both versions of ACCST.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After some more digging I think the "VERS: 2.1.6" I mention above is the OpenTx version, NOT the x9D+ firmware or protocol version. Also in order for a multi protocol module to work I either need a custom version of OpenTx (which is no longer advised) or to be on OpenTx version 2.2 or newer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just in case this info Is useful I'll keep updating. There are 2 items to flash to the x9d+, often both referred to as firmware although I dont think that term is accurate.

First is the version of OpenTx which really feels more like the operating system and as of right now the latest version is 2.3.15. If you want to be able to use one of the add-on "4-in-1" modules that will allow your transmitter to understand a large range of other protocols (other than the one programmed into your terminal e.g. ACCSTv2) you will need to have at least OpenTx version 2.2.1.

The second item that can be flashed is the transmitters radio firmware. This is normally referred to as either "XJT" or "IXJT" in the x9D+ depending on version of transmitter. It is this firmware which determines which protocol the transmitter will use. In order of age the protocol which could be on your transmitter could be ACCSTv1 (in some documentation just referred to as ACCST), ACCSTv2 and ACCESS. (If you see mention of "Archer" that is just a version of FrSky receivers that are designed to work with the ACCESS protocol)

 

It is possible to flash the transmitter forwards or backwards in versions of both OpenTx and also XJT and also possible to flash a lot of the receivers back or forwards through versions of XJT (although check for your particular receiver). The goal of course is to match the version of XJT in your transmitter with the version in your receiver.

 

It is important to note that protocols newer than ACCSTv1 were deliberately locked down by FrSky to stop working with 3rd party receivers such as the RadioMaster R168. Therefore if you want to use any receiver other than a FrSky branded receiver then you will either need to have a transmitter with its radio flashed to ACCSTv1 OR have a transmitter with at least OpenTx 2.2.1 and a "4-in-1" module plugged into the back of the transmitter. Most of the 4-in-1 modules do support ACCSTv1 such as the iRangeX IRX4.

 

You can establish what version of OpenTx you have by turning on your x9D+, holding down the menu button to enter the radio menus and then clicking "page" until you get to the "Version" screen. The VER field is the version of OpenTx.

I am still looking for a way to definitively tell what version of firmware is on the XJT radio.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if this thread has dragged on a bit. This should be the last but one post I need to make for anyone who needs this info.

I sent an email to FrSky support at sales4tech@gmail.com yesterday afternoon and they replied this morning (impressively quickly I thought). I told them about the Version screen :

VERS: 2.1.6
DATE: 2015-12-29
TIME: 20:15:01
EEPR: 217

and asked if they could suggest how I tell if the transmitter was setup for ACCSTv1, ACCSTv2 or ACCESS. They asked for a photo of the front of the device which I then sent.

They point out that we can tell the transmitter is NOT the "X9D+ 2019" version (which has a roller to the right of the screen) but rather the older "X9D+" (which has buttons to the right of the screen). This means that the device would have originally shipped with ACCSTv1. They then point out that given the OpenTx version has an old date and version number it suggests OpenTx was never updated by the previous owner. Further, the implication they make is that if the previous owner never bothered updating OpenTx they are unlikely to have gone further and updated the XJT firmware.

So, after this whole rabbit-hole it looks like my "old X9D+" transmitter is probably ACCSTv1. I will be buying an ACCSTv1 receiver and will update this thread one last time confirming whether it worked or not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here is my last update to this post. Hopefully any one else trying the same as me in the future will find all of this useful.

I purchased a RX6R flashed with "EU-LBT" "ACCSTv1" from https://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/frsky-rx6r-616ch-receiver-with-sbus.

I have successfully bound this receiver to my Taranis X9D-plus. (phew) The best guide to binding I found was 

although this is for a X8R receiver the same procedure also works for the RX6R

A couple of points for reference :

1. The white wire is the signal wire.

2. On the side of the RX6R is a tiny little sticker indicating which of the pins is the signal pin.

3. The ESC can be plugged into any channel during the binding process. The main thing is the +/- are being connected correctly so that the receiver can get power.

4. On the RX6R channel 1 is the throttle channel and channel 2 is the servo/steering channel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gebbly,

you will find after you get used to the way OpenTX works...   stick/channel assignment is one of those things that you can change.  in fact, everything can be changed.  any input on the transmitter can be mapped to any channel on any receiver.   I currently have two models that are using 3 receivers, i have no idea if there is a max # of receivers you can bind to a single model.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Tim.Senecal thats good to know. I was starting to wonder how I make use of all the extra switches that are on the controller.

I got very excited the moment I got a servo to respond to my controller and started wondering what other things I could add to the car to make use of all the spare channels I have....I havent even finished building the car yet, getting a little ahead of myself :)

I really like the controller but I think FrSky really dropped the ball in the manuals department Would have been great to come with a large manual all about the controller and a seperate one for OpenTX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys. I use a Spektrun DX6E and Receiver AR620 in the trucks and AR410 on the trailers for remote lights. No more wires. Also I have all them on one setting. You can bind as many as you can. Never that till I got this. Used to run Futaba radios and etc in mine. The trucks run day and night from the old radio to the new Spektrum. No antenna wires on the receivers either. What amazing things have come about to the hobby. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...