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Golden

Hardened aluminium vs steel pinion….

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Hi All, I’m building a td4 Super Avante - and I’m going to start with running a super stock bz motor. I will install a slipper clutch as I might go brushless soon, and note I need a dp48 pinion - and probably a 21t pinion to stay within recommended gearing for the motor. 
 

I think standard aluminium will turn to grey mush - so should I go for a hardened aluminium pinion - or steel? Not sure what the differences would be.
 

I’d like to stay with Tamiya if possible, just to keep everything on the buggy Tamiya (although have to upgrade the esc to a hobbywing I guess….), and it doesn't look like they do a steel version - so I’d be grateful for a recommendation on what material pinion to choose, and which manufacturer/brand to go for?

Many thanks!

 

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2 hours ago, Golden said:

hardened aluminium pinion - or steel? Not sure what the differences would be.

Hardness scale for mile steel vs 6061 aluminum would be like 115 vs 95. (Brinell)  I suspect Tamiya stock aluminum is like 1100 aluminum with hardness of 23.  I doubt that many sellers would use expensive 6061.  Probably something like 3003, which has hardness of 55.  (or they powder coat the surface, which also lasts.)  

Hardened aluminum is 2-4 times as strong as the stock pinion. That could be enough for the most part,. But steel would last. But steel doesn't give like aluminum. So the slipper clutch you plan on installing would be a good thing.  Since you'll have the clutch, why not go with steel? 

Robinson makes steel pinions, but gears are nothing special.  You can find 48p 21t gears that fit 3.175mm shafts (540 sized motors). Below is a US seller, I think.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NZSJM21/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B08NZSJM21&pd_rd_w=jtRdO&content-id=amzn1.sym.3481f441-61ac-4028-9c1a-7f9ce8ec50c5&pf_rd_p=3481f441-61ac-4028-9c1a-7f9ce8ec50c5&pf_rd_r=E5E1AH5RC670RWMQA4RW&pd_rd_wg=2dHox&pd_rd_r=fab02276-fc90-4489-880e-bb038c364422&s=toys-and-games&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSUVXT1A2SDRNSlJWJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDM4NjQ4MUQxODZGUVZGUVdJUCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzQ1OTU1MzlVSDVFTVlRMDMzWSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

 

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Many thanks. So no disadvantages in steel (potentially heavier - but I’m bashing. Not racing!) - and won’t damage the spur gear?

Having looked at the packaging on the slipper clutch, it says not compatible with short shaft motors - such as 540SH/torque tuned. I’d always assumed the sh just meant a standard  silver can - so a bit confused by this. I know the super stock has s shorter shaft than a standard silver can - so I can’t fit a heat sink and spacer plate on my sand viper as then the shaft is too short to attach the pinion. I wonder if it’s the same type of issue. Will have to fit it all up to see I guess!

Thanks for the above.

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Tamiya made their own 48 pitch pinions in the past for their competition buggies, probably hard to find those ones now. I probably had one from a kit and the quality would have been better than the "soft" pinions they include with cheaper kits, But pinions are generic, not worth fussing about whether they are a Tamiya part or not IMHO.

Steel or hardened aluminium are both fine in this application (1/10th off road). In fact I get good life out of my "soft" Tamiya pinions as well but maybe I'm not as tough on my cars as other people.

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11 hours ago, sosidge said:

I get good life out of my "soft" Tamiya pinions as well but maybe I'm not as tough on my cars as other people.

Me too.  

Also, I use teflon grease to reduce wear.  Besides, if you end up having 3 dozen cars, one car doesn't get too many miles.  So I don't bother with aftermarket pinions for the silver can or sport tuned. That's just me, though.  Super Stock or brushless could use at least a hardened pinion.  

 

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Steel for bashing, aluminum for racing. Of course it all depends on what's available for a decent price at the time.

 

I was using a full set of Tamiya's 0.4 module pinions for racing a 415. What Tamiya did with this line of pinions was switch from aluminum to steel for the smaller sizes (H.P. series).  This might give us a clue that increased pinion hardness becomes more important as the tooth count gets lower.

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Thanks for the above - and a fair point about the amount of use. I’m happy to replace a pinion every so often - just didn’t want to damage the spur gear on the slipper clutch. Probably over thinking it for my “application”(!). 

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I would very much like to start a separate topic on this when time allows. I'm curious as to why we all have different experiences with the longevity of aluminum pinions. I have always used/recommended steel pinions as every time I have used aluminum pinions, minimally, the next gear in line gets "stained" with grey aluminum particles or at worst, many gears carry the aluminum/grease paste through the gearbox, and the pinion gets chewed down. I don't use lipo nor any motor hotter than a Sport Tuned but perhaps I'm driving or lubing my cars incorrectly. 

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I have heaps of these

https://www.rcmart.com/yeah-racing-aluminum-7075-hard-coated-motor-gear-pinions-48p-22t-mg-48022-00030128

and they haven't worn out in years of use.  I buy them because they are cheap and easy to get (RCMart have the whole range of sizes in 48p, mod 0.6 etc) and so far I haven't had any problems.  More recently I bought a pack of Surpass Hobby ones which are apparently the same spec and they've been fine too, and even cheaper from Banggood.  

The only time I've had problems with gears have been when a stone or something has got in there and ruined one, I've never had a gear just wear down.

In saying that, I haven't checked my son's Novafox which has run the standard alloy pinion for a few years now, that may be worn right down.

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11 hours ago, CoolHands said:

Hardened aluminium gears hardly wear at all. I don’t think it needs much investigation!  And they’re not particularly expensive. Most of mine are core rc 

https://www.rccarshop.co.uk/cr4838-pinion-gear-48dp-38t-7075-hard-p

I use those as well and am amazed by how tough they are. I usually burn my rubbish and that includes packaging. I once accidentally left a pinion of that type in the package it came in and burnt in the bonfire. Recovered it weeks later when clearing the ash, cleaned it up and put it into a car and it works perfectly fine. 

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Hard anodized aluminum pinions is what we use for racing (64p and 48p). You get the best performance with a lightweight pinion (most noticeable in stock classes, like 1/10 buggy) and you get the best durability from a hard anodized one. I typically run CRC pinions for the pan cars, touring cars and usually TLR for my 1/10 off road stuff.

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