Beliefs/values/interest misalignment

[Saito2 6686]

I'm going to try to be careful with this question to answer a conundrum I frequently and increasingly face without angering anyone. What does a person do when confronted by the following situation?: A hobby or interest that a person may have brings them into contact (directly, not online) with a community of fellow hobbyist that share similar interest. The problem is, what if, outside of that common hobby/interest, stereotypically (but not hard black and white as there is always gray in any given situation) the values and belief systems of other hobbyist are diametrically opposed to that of the individual? It has been my recent experience in the States that folks tend to wear their belief/value systems very much "on their sleeves" in the last 6 years or so making the situation even more "sticky" so to speak. Any thoughts? Please, no hate and I apologize ahead of time if this question makes anyone uncomfortable. It is merely me trying to better understand an increasingly confusing world around me, being on the spectrum.

[LongRat 616]

Come together on what is shared - the RC interest.  Many of my RC friends are very different to me, have sometimes diametrically opposite views on many subjects but we generally agree that all forms of RC are awesome and have fun with that.  Those of my other friends who I do have more alignment with generally don't agree that RC is awesome, so I don't play with my cars with them.  Never had a problem needing to solve, really.

Interestingly, I have one RC mate who comes across very much as wearing his beliefs on his sleeves, as you say.  You would think, 'ah yes, I know what this guy's all about'.  It took me years to realise after talking with him about subjects that started to diverge away from RC to bigger things, that I had completely misread aforementioned sleeves and that in many ways I had misjudged his whole character.

[Saito2 6686]

12 hours ago, LongRat said:

Come together on what is shared - the RC interest.  Many of my RC friends are very different to me, have sometimes diametrically opposite views on many subjects but we generally agree that all forms of RC are awesome and have fun with that.  Those of my other friends who I do have more alignment with generally don't agree that RC is awesome, so I don't play with my cars with them.  Never had a problem needing to solve, really.

Interestingly, I have one RC mate who comes across very much as wearing his beliefs on his sleeves, as you say.  You would think, 'ah yes, I know what this guy's all about'.  It took me years to realise after talking with him about subjects that started to diverge away from RC to bigger things, that I had completely misread aforementioned sleeves and that in many ways I had misjudged his whole character.

Thank you. Sticking to RC, in your example, is what I generally try to do online (though I fail at times) and that format is great for that. Person to person is another matter. The people in my area, in general, can not come together with a common interest and not start discussing highly charged issues outside of the sphere of that common interest. Literally every discussion tends to circle around to these hotbed issues and more often then not, I'm forced to remain uncomfortably silent (which, that alone, often damns me in their eyes as being "on the other side"). 

Edit: In retrospect, I may I have spoken out of turn. I apologize for that and it may be best to let the issue drop. While the issue has been a deep concern for me, it is simply the way things are in my area and I need to accept that. It is an example of me trying to have my cake and eat it too. Since it is I, and not them, who wishes to avoid these topics, I should give up person to person contact in my free time as I have always done of late. As far as work goes, keeping my mouth shut will continue to be the best course of action, though I can no longer keep up the "masking" end of it.

[Mad Ax 9329]

I always find it difficult to respond appropriately when subjects swing around to sensitive topics.  We have plenty of those on this side of the pond, too.  It's a tough time right now with several issues seeming to cut the country right in two.  There are a few people in the RC community - people who I like very much and enjoy spending time with at RC events - who have strong opinions that are opposed to mine, and I don't like it when they start talking about them.  I generally do as you do, keep my mouth shut, or let someone stronger-willed than I steer it somewhere safer.  In general, though, the vintage and 1:10 racing RC community here don't talk much about their political views.  That comes out more in other social groups, most of which I haven't been directly involved in since before the pandemic.

I'd also say with bigger racing events, it's easier to avoid the awkward subjects because there's so many people around.  If one group moves gets into politics, I can politely excuse myself and find another group to talk to.  Failing that, I can go back to my pit tent and bury myself in a diff rebuild and people will leave me alone.  That's less easy when it's a small group who turned out for a quiet bash.

[Willy iine 18806]

@Saito2  Yeah, I personally make effort not to talk about politics, race, religion while in public space.   I just tell them I really don't have an opinion on it, and change subject.  

I mean I have an opinion, but it's not like I'm going to be changing anything in the world so I do myself a favor and just not say anything at all.    And it's kept me alive this far, it seems to work in my favor.  

And if someone insists they want my opinion, I just tell them they got something stuck in their teeth.  

[SupraChrgd82 1425]

Call the shots when those situations arise - “Sorry dude, I’m not here to discuss politics.”

[Frog Jumper 3663]

I followed the band Phish for 20 years. You meet every kind of person at their shows from uptight lawyers to freaked out hippies. And for the 3 hours at the show, they are all Phamily.  No one there has the same opinion about anything. But we all think PH is the heat.

A few summers ago, one of my tour buddies brought her fiancé to visit while they were touring the east coast. He claimed to be a Republican while I claimed to be a Democrat. But after some friendly discussion we realized that an Oregonian GOPer might be as “liberal” as a North Carolina Progressive if not more.  We had a good laugh.

The show later that night was awesome…

[Saito2 6686]

7 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

I’m not here to discuss politics.”

I've had to do that with my mother and aunt. I've somewhat lost them to "cult 45" unfortunately. For the most part, they are respectful of that, although there are slip-ups on occasion, naturally. At least they try. Some co-workers are absolutely brilliant about keeping their flat-earth/microchip vaccine/secret evil cabal under wraps and I can work closely with them, no problem. Others can't go 2 sentences without launching into a a tirade about something. Everybody's different.

Interestingly, I brought this topic up to a friend at work, 20 years younger than me. He admitted that some hobbies or interest appealed to him but he simply chooses not to get involved in them at all because of the culture of those commonly surrounding said interest. My interest/focus are too sharp for that kind of willpower, lol.

[Willy iine 18806]

10 hours ago, Saito2 said:

Interestingly, I brought this topic up to a friend at work, 20 years younger than me. He admitted that some hobbies or interest appealed to him but he simply chooses not to get involved in them at all because of the culture of those commonly surrounding said interest. My interest/focus are too sharp for that kind of willpower, lol.

I think one really needs to be a weirdo to have the passion we have with our RC hobby.     I don't even remember the last time I actually hung out with friends.. because I have a bunch of buddies to pretend like I'm enjoying myself, but no true friend besides my wife.. and I honestly don't care as I just want to enjoy my hobbies.   

[tim.senecal 487]

29 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I think one really needs to be a weirdo to have the passion we have with our RC hobby.     I don't even remember the last time I actually hung out with friends.. because I have a bunch of buddies to pretend like I'm enjoying myself, but no true friend besides my wife.. and I honestly don't care as I just want to enjoy my hobbies.   

there were tons of memes that came out 2 years ago when the covid lockdown occurred.   all the memes were "I have been preparing for this all my life."  i spend the vast majority of my freetime in the workshop building r/c toys, by myself.  the rest of my freetime is spent playing with those built toys.

 

as to the individuals in this hobby that seem to think it is their place in the world to tell me what my opinions should be...  i generally find another club where those people aren't.   there is enough overlap in clubs that even if one club has one or more obnoxious persons, the next club doesn't.   one club i belong to literally proclaims that it is a hobby club, not a politics club, and anyone who crosses that line is asked to leave.  amazingly enough, over the last 20 years, only 2 people have been asked to leave.

[Ziddan 947]

Being into Warhammer 40k for the last 25ish years has become "interesting" from the point of view of this topic, it wasnt to start with because everyone into it was into for the setting, game and hobby.

Nowdays people who arent into the setting want to get into the game+hobby and change the setting to suit current day politics rather than enjoy it for what it is.

That grinds my gears so i tend to avoid those people, if they get in my face about it ill just tell them to zog off.

That community has split into people who like off color jokes that come with enjoying the over-the-top tone and those that cant, the neither group is very compatible with the other so a lot of online places are heavily tilted one way or the other as "the other side" is hounded away.

No real idea how it is at game stores or event but i expect my group, the one that likes the off color jokes, might get hounded.

[Willy iine 18806]

1 hour ago, tim.senecal said:

there were tons of memes that came out 2 years ago when the covid lockdown occurred.   all the memes were "I have been preparing for this all my life."  i spend the vast majority of my freetime in the workshop building r/c toys, by myself.  the rest of my freetime is spent playing with those built toys.

 

as to the individuals in this hobby that seem to think it is their place in the world to tell me what my opinions should be...  i generally find another club where those people aren't.   there is enough overlap in clubs that even if one club has one or more obnoxious persons, the next club doesn't.   one club i belong to literally proclaims that it is a hobby club, not a politics club, and anyone who crosses that line is asked to leave.  amazingly enough, over the last 20 years, only 2 people have been asked to leave.

You know it's funny because a lot of people that have hobbies have strong opinions and for whatever reason when they finally find a place to speak out (or they just decide they have someone who's willing to listen to their rhetoric), some of them just blow up and go all out.    

People like me don't care to preach to anyone for anything, hobby topics included.  I just mention 'here is how I did it, try it if you'd like..it's entirely up to you'.  If you don't like it, that's fine, I honestly don't care either.    

 

[Saito2 6686]

3 hours ago, Willy iine said:

 I don't even remember the last time I actually hung out with friends.. because I have a bunch of buddies to pretend like I'm enjoying myself, but no true friend besides my wife.. and I honestly don't care as I just want to enjoy my hobbies. 

Honestly, this is the same boat I'm in. There's just been times I've been asked to come along to gatherings and I have to decline because of the aforementioned ideal clash. BTW, the hobbies/interest in this thread I spoke of weren't necessarily RC related. It was more of a general thing where my interest take me into direct contact with those that would take serious offense to my beliefs (which I keep deeply hidden, but I refuse to lie about when cornered, just to fit in).

[Mrowka 496]

Probably depends on the hobby. If you are in the US and your passion is firearms or hunting or feeding the homeless, then, for better or worse, it's probably hard to disengage politics from that passion. 

Not only that, but most of your fellow participants will probably have a specific political background or slant.

Birdwatching? Maybe not so much.

[Saito2 6686]

6 hours ago, Mrowka said:

Probably depends on the hobby. If you are in the US and your passion is firearms or hunting or feeding the homeless, then, for better or worse, it's probably hard to disengage politics from that passion. 

Not only that, but most of your fellow participants will probably have a specific political background or slant.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Unfortunately, in my surrounding area, there is a great deal of anger and politics/religious beliefs seem to be on tip of everyone's tongues. There's certainly enough flags and large signs up in yards to let one know the position of any particular homeowner on these topics. The second I say I'd rather avoid such topics (to avoid an argument and get back to the common interest) it immediately identifies me as "being against them." The funny thing is, I like learning about other people's values and ideas. Its interesting, whereas echo chambers as boring. I don't have to agree and they don't have to agree, but the days of "let's agree to disagree" seem over in my locale. Its either "you're with me or your wrong".

I guess to extend this to RC, I have an internal debate about what to do with my Kyosho USA-1 resto project. I liked the USA-1 BITD as being one of the last hard-charging competitive leaf sprung stage 2 trucks. The problem is, the truck's owner, Everett Jasmer, has made comments to the affect that global warming is a hoax etc.etc. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly, scientifically, that global warming is a real problem. You may agree or disagree, as Mr. Jasmer does and that's fine. I'm not here to push my feelings on the subject off on anyone. The question is, do I really want to see the USA-1 (in a symbolic way, realistically, its just a mechanical construct) in my collection representing what I personally see as "wrong headedness"? It can be hard to separate at times.

[Ziddan 947]

The Sand Scorcher body i got for my TT02B reminded me of a Kommandeurwagen when it was primed in gray so i leaned into that, gave it ᛋᛋ-TT02B as the number plate and printed a driver head with a stahlhelm.

For another shell im considering doing it up in dunkelgelb to have an Afrika Korps dune buggy or maybe styling it after the BF109, if anyone decides to get annoying ill tell them to zog off again.

59 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Kyosho USA-1

Just build it, do what you like with your toys

[Tbird232ci 333]

This is a pretty interesting topic, and very relevant.

I'm from the United States. I've never seen the climate here so divided. I've been very fortunate to surround myself with people who can separate their political views from most other aspects of life. My upbringing, hardships and life experience molded me to lean one way, while theirs have molded them to lean the other. We have had some decent discussions, but at the end of those discussions, neither of our minds were changed. Since then, we hardly talk politics.

For public situations, sometimes you really have to come off as a Richard and tell people that you're not interested in the topic. If they persist, it shows that they don't respect your wishes, or you as a person. Those are people you don't need in your life. I have lost many long time friends, not because we disagreed on a topic, but because they were disrespectful and malicious. I don't regret cutting those people out even in the slightest. Two friends of mine for 20+ years were talking about wishing half of the population would die because of their political beliefs. They are no longer my friends.

[Wooders28 4723]

I'm an Englishman, working in heavy industry, in an old mining town, in Scotland. Unfortunately, I don't get to sit arguments out, especially if Scottish independence is the hot topic, as I'm suddenly the English figure head. 

Suddenly its, my government (even though we don't really have a say ,who's running it down in England, and I've lived up here nearly half my life...)  etc etc.

If I go the pub for a pint, and anyone hears my lack of Scottish accent, I'm the reason they want independence,  so I don't both going the pub when that topic is in the air (again....🤦‍♂️). I'm not shy, but I'm not going to start taking on randoms in a pub.

You do get a bit ,during a club event, but it's absolutely nothing compared to everywhere else, more banter than anything, so it's fine. I don't recall anything at bigger events, everyone is too busy concentrating on set ups and lap times.

[Mad Ax 9329]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:45 PM, Saito2 said:

I liked the USA-1 BITD as being one of the last hard-charging competitive leaf sprung stage 2 trucks. The problem is, the truck's owner, Everett Jasmer, has made comments to the affect that global warming is a hoax etc.etc. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly, scientifically, that global warming is a real problem.

This is an interesting side-point, and IMO part of a much bigger topic, which probably comes under the "cancel culture" heading.

For example, there are some pieces of music in my life that I couldn't live without.  I mostly listen in private, but I hate the idea that somebody could tell me that I have to stop listening to certain pieces of music because of something the composer did.  I'm fortunate that I'm not a fan of Gary Glitter or R Kelly, but last year there was a minor scandal when an offensive private conversation between some members of a band that I'm very fond of got leaked, prompting a lot of backpedalling and public apologies.  It was really surprising because the band's lyrics are very accessible and family friendly.  For a while I had to question where I stood on that, and whether the public apology was enough to repair the damage.  And yet, I expect there's not a single person reading this text who hasn't at some point said something deliberately offensive about another group of people when they thought nobody was listening.  In fact I'm totally sure that if someone wanted to, they could trawl the web and find something I'd posted publicly that could be considered offensive.  It's only as stories like this come out that we stop to think about the damage such things do, even if they're said in complete privacy.

I really don't know where I stand on the USA-1 question.  It's not so much about "cancelling" the USA-1 or Everett Jasmer, but about unwillingly showing my allegiance to a divisive cause that I don't support.

 

[Willy iine 18806]

Interesting points there @Saito2, @Mad Ax.. we are emotional beings and our values and beliefs are strictly based on what feels right to each of us.. so if an item potentially represents or reminds us of something we don't believe in, then naturally we will want to disassociate from it.  I am the same way.  

If one looked around my house there is one country's brands in particular I do not own except for one appliance (because it was the only brand my usual installing contractor had exclusive business relation with; I voiced that I wanted a different brand, but at the end weighed the trust of my installer more).  

I purposefully do this as I hate the experience I've had with this country's people..without going into details, I just don't support nor promote stupid.  

[Saito2 6686]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:01 PM, Mad Ax said:

This is an interesting side-point, and IMO part of a much bigger topic, which probably comes under the "cancel culture" heading

I've heard that argument. The thing is, I fully support Mr. Jasmer having the right to express that opinion. I fully support his right to make long post on his personal website expressing his opinion. In no way should he or his truck be "cancelled". That's ridiculous. Its a personal disagreement I have with his beliefs and how I'll handle restoring a toy truck modeled after his. 

Perhaps it comes down to the question of, can the artist be separated from his art? Music was brought up which reminds me of hearing Michael Jackson on the radio after all the rather unsavory news came out about him. While I liked music long before him (I was a big Motown and surf music fan as a little kid), when I heard the guitar part on Beat it when Thriller came out (boy, I remember that, I'm old!) I fell in love with the instrument. It helps that it was Eddie Van Halen playing it so at least I had good taste, lol. Still, its hard to separate the two. Does anybody dig R Kelly music anymore after what he's done? I don't know.

[Willy iine 18806]

@Saito2 Eddie Van Halen rocks!    I've been to several of his concerts.  
 

I suppose if the artist shows true remorse and doing something about their psychological problems I suppose I can consider them a human first and possibly separate their artistry from their past problems, but that's a tough one.  

I just don't trust someone once I feel violated.. because it's about their core values and core values is basically like their DNA.   One can't usually truely change it.  I tend to just leave those folks behind as I have better things to do. 

[Saito2 6686]

1 hour ago, Willy iine said:

I suppose if the artist shows true remorse and doing something about their psychological problems I suppose I can consider them a human first

Everybody makes mistakes and nobody's perfect but there are some things you can never walk back. 

 

[Willy iine 18806]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

Everybody makes mistakes and nobody's perfect but there are some things you can never walk back. 

 

True that.. once that happens, can't trust them any more even if we want to.

[Wooders28 4723]

On 7/1/2022 at 8:55 PM, Saito2 said:

when I heard the guitar part on Beat it when Thriller came out (boy, I remember that, I'm old!) I fell in love with the instrument. It helps that it was Eddie Van Halen playing it so at least I had good taste, lol.

Got me into metal!! I recorded it off the radio, and would keep rewinding it, just to listen to Eddie (didn't know it was him at the time though.. )

Kind of on topic, Shinedown's new album is awesome! 

On 7/1/2022 at 8:55 PM, Saito2 said:

I've heard that argument. The thing is, I fully support Mr. Jasmer having the right to express that opinion

Had to Google it, but aye, opinions are fine, just don't try and force them on me, and tell me mine are wrong.