Beliefs/values/interest misalignment

[Robert5000 928]

Thinking about a reply to this topic has made me realise how lucky I feel that I don't live in the US as the polarization that started after the 2000 election has just gotten harder and harder. 

As for shared interests but differing realities, I guess it comes down to the subject, if you're an outspoken racist, homophobe, nazi, applaud that Roe V Wade got overturned,  or mean towards animals you're not a friend of mine. If you on the other hand want to explain to me why Trump was a brilliant president and back it up with sane arguments, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, and I'll explain my take on the matter to the best of my capabilities. 

And I couldn't agree more with @Wooders28 last sentence, that pretty much sums it up. 

[Willy iine 18805]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:11 PM, Robert5000 said:

Thinking about a reply to this topic has made me realise how lucky I feel that I don't live in the US as the polarization that started after the 2000 election has just gotten harder and harder. 

As for shared interests but differing realities, I guess it comes down to the subject, if you're an outspoken racist, homophobe, nazi, applaud that Roe V Wade got overturned,  or mean towards animals you're not a friend of mine. If you on the other hand want to explain to me why Trump was a brilliant president and back it up with sane arguments, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, and I'll explain my take on the matter to the best of my capabilities. 

@Robert5000 I've lived in the USA since the 70's originally due to my dad's occupation as a rotation staff (VP for a major Japanese corporation).  I've personally experienced hatred while living in the South in the 70's..and it was really bad on some days.. but I decided to stay even after my dad retired and moved back decades ago.  The hatred has always been there all these years, Trump just unmasked the truth, so it never surprised me.  I know I am not fully wanted in the USA, but that's fine, I don't care either. 

USA is a great country to live in, if one is bold and strong hearted..it's definitely not a place for softy's and never has been even for white Americans.   I am not an immigrant so plan to move back to my homeland some day.. as per the 'every man for himself' mentality.. the mentality America taught me.  I will enjoy my retired life comfortably in Japan living a better life than your ordinary retired salaryman who lived in Japan all his life.  For that I thank America for forging me into that person.  

[Saito2 6686]

On 7/11/2022 at 4:11 PM, Robert5000 said:

Thinking about a reply to this topic has made me realise how lucky I feel that I don't live in the US as the polarization that started after the 2000 election has just gotten harder and harder. 

As for shared interests but differing realities, I guess it comes down to the subject, if you're an outspoken racist, homophobe, nazi, applaud that Roe V Wade got overturned,  or mean towards animals you're not a friend of mine. If you on the other hand want to explain to me why Trump was a brilliant president and back it up with sane arguments, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, and I'll explain my take on the matter to the best of my capabilities. 

Sums up my thoughts. My co-worker went off about how the Jan 6th Committee hearings was all a sham concocted by the Democrats who secretly serve an evil worldwide cabal bent on preparing the world for Satan. Wow. Can't have a meaningful discussion with that.

For our part, we have the potential of getting a state governor in the coming election who does not believe in abortion under any circumstances. If he gets elected and begins bringing my state in line with what's going on in Texas,, we're picking up and moving out of state. If the next US president enacts the same policies, we're leaving the country. Sounds extreme, I admit. At one time, I really didn't care which party was in power. The pendulum just swung back and forth over the years and I never felt either party was 100% "correct". Lately the extreme and invasive measures that have been bantered about are simply too much to take if they come to fruition. 

10 hours ago, Willy iine said:

The hatred has always been there all these years, Trump just unmasked the truth, so it never surprised me.

Very true. It was literally ****htening to see the suddenness this all came to the surface though. People I'd known for years suddenly being racist and homophobic out in the open with no regard.  

 PS...why is f-r-i-g-h-t-e-n-i-n-g always blanked out as a badword? Just curious.

[NWarty 1325]

Interesting topic Saito and thank you for posting this.

For many of those here who don't know, I'm transgender. I've lived in the Pacific Northwest of the United States for the last 24 years (After escaping the South). After retiring from the US Army, I stayed here and raised my sons with my spouse. My family still resides in the South, in both Atlanta, and in North Carolina. I came out five years ago, so I was here on TC long before I was out publicly.

I have not gotten rid of the hobbies that I grew up with, but I've changed in how I interact with some of the people involved in those hobbies. I no longer do many things in person, that I used to do. i.e. I've switched Games Workshops 40K stores to a more laid back and chill crowd because of toxic dude-bro talk over games. I no longer run model trains at a train club patronized by grumpy boomers. I no longer fly RC's at a field. Some hobby forums I've stayed on, some I've left entirely. I no longer visit American football forums or fan sites due to the amount of hate leveled at the LGBTQ crowd. 

My politics/identity has put me at odds with my traditional Republican family (sans my younger brother who is my biggest cheerleader). I rarely speak to them anymore. My dad and mom are glued to Fox News 24/7. And I tolerate their political crap even though my livelihood is hanging in the balance in the near future. Long story short, my father and I raced cars together, flew planes together, talked hobbies together, but he doesn't call anymore. Neither of them call anymore other than my brother.

I've discovered new hobbies and met new friends in my life (women). Although I don't do the old hobbies as much anymore, I'm enjoying new things with like-minded people. It makes me sad sometimes to see so much vitrol in our country. So many people just can't leave each other alone and let people be.

 

[Saito2 6686]

36 minutes ago, NWarty said:

So many people just can't leave each other alone and let people be.

The question that has plagued me for decades as to why that is the case. 

[Robert5000 928]

All the power and all the best to you @NWarty!

6 hours ago, NWarty said:

Long story short, my father and I raced cars together, flew planes together, talked hobbies together, but he doesn't call anymore. Neither of them call anymore other than my brother.

This absolutely broke my heart. I'm so glad that your brother knows what's what. 

[GeeWings 2830]

The last 12 months have without a doubt been the most challenging I have faced. I'velost family and been too far away to say goodbye, had to see my son struggle with only recently diagnosed autism and then my wife was involved in an awful accident at home, in front of the kids which we are all still feeling the effects of months later.

This hobby and this forum has been a great escape for me, somewhere to get lost for a while with a small group of folk who happen to be equally obsessed with this strange, niche hobby we share.

Mostly, like in 'real life', the people are great, such as when I stopped posting for a while. People noticed and reached out (special thanks to @Kol__). But other times people are people and they are uncaring, unforgiving and frankly mean spirited.

Unfortunately I think regardless of how much we might have in common there are still values that divide us. 

[Kol__ 3377]

6 hours ago, GeeWings said:

The last 12 months have without a doubt been the most challenging I have faced. I'velost family and been too far away to say goodbye, had to see my son struggle with only recently diagnosed autism and then my wife was involved in an awful accident at home, in front of the kids which we are all still feeling the effects of months later.

This hobby and this forum has been a great escape for me, somewhere to get lost for a while with a small group of folk who happen to be equally obsessed with this strange, niche hobby we share.

Mostly, like in 'real life', the people are great, such as when I stopped posting for a while. People noticed and reached out (special thanks to @Kol__). But other times people are people and they are uncaring, unforgiving and frankly mean spirited.

Unfortunately I think regardless of how much we might have in common there are still values that divide us. 

Hey bud, agree the forum and the hobby in general is a good escape, a bit of a break from what can at times be a harsh reality we live in. Hope things are on the up for you and your family now and thanks for the honourable mention, lol

Given the span of different locations and cultures of the members of this forum, there must be many, many different beliefs and values on here, with some shared as well I imagine. It's sad to read some of the stories on this thread, we all have our own individual struggles. It's great to see everyone here is strong even in the face of their difficulties, if you weren't you wouldn't necessarily still be posting on here.

The fact we're all on here sharing our RC journeys, thoughts and experiences will such respect for one another is a testament to the qualities of the forum members. So although we're all different, and perhaps not everyone is as caring as they could be, we all have one big thing in common, RC and specifically Tamiya, even though some aspects of Tamiya can drive us crazy! This is one of the best forums I've ever been on, and kudos to @Saito2 for yet another stimulating thread👍

[WillyChang 1814]

20 hours ago, Saito2 said:

PS...why is f-r-i-g-h-t-e-n-i-n-g always blanked out as a badword? Just curious.

Fr ig if I know 

[Saito2 6686]

13 hours ago, WillyChang said:

Fr ig if I know 

And here I thought that was just a nicer way of say the other F word. A little research turn up the fact that I'm an idiot (again! lol), but either way, I'm trying to type a totally different word. I guess I'll be stuck using "scary" instead, lol.

[Wooders28 4723]

1 hour ago, Saito2 said:

I thought that was just a nicer way of say the other F word.

Random, and off topic, but....

The Scottish other "F word" that's getting banded about due to the crypto currency (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt....), means the "C word" in the rest of the English language...🙄

[Dakratfink 967]

Over my my 20 years in the military I bonded closely with quite a few folks who I still consider friends years and thousands miles apart and a lot of casual acquaintances I was at least able to get along with over mutual interests of music, cars ( 1:1 and R/C) bikes , sports , outdoors and other traditional masculine “guy” things and many others I bonded over  music, pop culture , comics and other nerdy stuff. 
I noticed the last 5 or so years of my career I distanced myself a bit from a lot of former acquaintances as they become more vocal and toxic about saying the “quiet part out loud “ regarding some of their more bigoted beliefs they previously kept to themselves 

[Willy iine 18805]

7 hours ago, Dakratfink said:

Over my my 20 years in the military I bonded closely with quite a few folks who I still consider friends years and thousands miles apart and a lot of casual acquaintances I was at least able to get along with over mutual interests of music, cars ( 1:1 and R/C) bikes , sports , outdoors and other traditional masculine “guy” things and many others I bonded over  music, pop culture , comics and other nerdy stuff. 
I noticed the last 5 or so years of my career I distanced myself a bit from a lot of former acquaintances as they become more vocal and toxic about saying the “quiet part out loud “ regarding some of their more bigoted beliefs they previously kept to themselves 

Thanks for your service!   It's because of people like you we get to enjoy our hobbies and livelyhood.  Yep, that is exactly what I am talking about, the hate disease is like chicken pox, it sits quietly until someone becomes vulnerable and it creeps out.. 

I mean for outsiders like me, it's good to have the knowledge and be aware so I don't unintentionally trigger that hate from someone trying to hold it in.  I equally discriminate against stupid people  including my own race, so I try to hold it inside the best I can in public space as well..  but if some idiot triggered it repetitively, not sure how well I or anyone would be able to hold it in silently.  

[markbt73 5315]

Late to the party, as usual... This is a really sticky situation to be put in, especially when it comes to things we truly love. I just want to talk about cars, or toy cars, or whatever. I have never understood the need some feel to interject their political beliefs into discussions that have nothing to do with politics. And it's always in a negative connotation: "I can't afford to buy X because that so-and-so in office did Y," or "if Those People get in again, we'll all have to give this up," or whatever. It's a conversation-killer, and it's completely unnecesary. In fact, I have left forums because of it, occasionally loudly.

It's one of the reasons I love the Opposite Lock community so much. It's ostensibly a car forum, it sprung out of the old Kinja blogs as an off-topic forum for Jalopnik, but went its own way after Kinja deleted the user blogs and went insane. There is only one rule on Oppo: "Be Excellent To Each Other." It's self-policing, and you'll see commenters quickly stamping out fires if someone stops being excellent, and the moderators are quick to move sensitive topics to a special "politics" section that's well-hidden from the main site. I know plenty of posters whose beliefs differ from mine, but it just never comes up, because no one lets it. It's a wonderful model for how the internet could be, but rarely is.

As for the USA-1 conundrum, I've struggled with things like that in the past myself. Is it still okay to listen to older music from certain bands, knowing that they have since devolved into something unsavory? Can I still admire the work of someone like Von Dutch, knowing about his racist tirades later in life? It's a tough call, sometimes, separating the art from the artist. In the case of the USA-1, you're restoring a Kyosho model back to its box-art presentation, because you like that presentation. That should be enough. Who cares if the guy who built the real truck is an idiot? Forget he even exists, and build the model the way you want.

[Kevin_Mc 411]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:50 PM, Wooders28 said:

I'm an Englishman, working in heavy industry, in an old mining town, in Scotland. Unfortunately, I don't get to sit arguments out, especially if Scottish independence is the hot topic, as I'm suddenly the English figure head. 

Suddenly its, my government (even though we don't really have a say ,who's running it down in England, and I've lived up here nearly half my life...)  etc etc.

If I go the pub for a pint, and anyone hears my lack of Scottish accent, I'm the reason they want independence,  so I don't both going the pub when that topic is in the air (again....🤦‍♂️). I'm not shy, but I'm not going to start taking on randoms in a pub.

You do get a bit ,during a club event, but it's absolutely nothing compared to everywhere else, more banter than anything, so it's fine. I don't recall anything at bigger events, everyone is too busy concentrating on set ups and lap times.

That's really disappointing to read, I hate the thought that you'd be singled out for being an Englishman and somehow everything's your fault and we should be voting Yes.

I'm fully for Scottish Independence btw, but it's nothing to do with you, with "the English" or not wanting to be British. Rightly or wrongly, I think we would thrive if we were self governed. I voted No for Scottish Independence through fear last time and have regretted it ever since. I have family in England (well Newcastle so essentially Scottish) but would welcome anyone with a Welsh, Irish, Italian, French, Indian etc. accent to live and work here as well as our cousins South of the Border. 

I hate to say it Tony but you're one of us despite how you sound! 

[Wooders28 4723]

21 hours ago, Kevin_Mc said:

That's really disappointing to read, I hate the thought that you'd be singled out for being an Englishman and somehow everything's your fault and we should be voting Yes.

Is what it is, as they say! 

Small town mentality tbh, some will just argue because there's a Y in the day...

 

21 hours ago, Kevin_Mc said:

I voted No for Scottish Independence through fear last time and have regretted it ever since.

Don't think you're alone there. Told we'd be kicked out of 'the club' and be on our own in the big wide world, and yet, here we are......😳

 

21 hours ago, Kevin_Mc said:

I have family in England (well Newcastle so essentially Scottish)

I'm from the North West of England (but still classed as,  'down south' ), and most i know around there, would like the border to be moved down ,and join us in independence, as their government get nose bleeds if they pass Birmingham, and feel, they get forgotten about. 

 

21 hours ago, Kevin_Mc said:

I hate to say it Tony but you're one of us despite how you sound! 

Funnily enough, when I head down the road, I'm told I sound really Scottish!( you sound dead Scottish like laaa ).

The wife has said that (I'm a Scot) on more than one occasion, last time being at a kids farm thing near my folks, they had an English flag, Welsh flag, Irish flag and....."OH NEIGHBOR YOU MISSING A FLAG" 🙄

[ACCEL 2014]

LIke neighbors for instance some are truly great and old town down to earth, others i'd love for them to just move far and away! (politely speaking).

Heck some day I'd really enjoy some of you up close and personal it would  be fun, good food, good drink, great times!

.

Do unto others as you'd do unto yourself and if that doesn't work, well i have SOoooooo much to do and look forward to doing it all then to worry about a stick in the mud.

[alvinlwh 5895]

I am a non white migrant to a white country. I once had a neighbour, and he has a racist  brother. However, the neighbour invited me to have a beer in his garden, and when we started talking, it turns out that we all have a common interest and the racist brother (who was ranting about immigrants moments ago and was making me feel kind of uncomfortable) said "oh you are all right", and chatted with me like a mate. 🤷

[Kevin_Mc 411]

@alvinlwh, some people eh?! I'd like to think racism is dying as I'm lucky enough not to see if due to having decent work colleagues and having friends that are not in the least bit racist but I'm sure it's prevalent as ever sadly. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

20 minutes ago, Kevin_Mc said:

@alvinlwh, some people eh?! I'd like to think racism is dying as I'm lucky enough not to see if due to having decent work colleagues and having friends that are not in the least bit racist but I'm sure it's prevalent as ever sadly. 

Up here in Orkney, it is more of the "causal racism" that I encounter more. I actually went to my council's equality officer (I work in the council) about the same question I had been asked within a week by 2 different persons. The question was "Are you going home for summer?". 

Well, my home is 5 minutes walk from the council offices, while I and my wife are immigrants, so technically can answer that question of it was slightly differently, my kids, one born in Kirkwall and the other in Aberdeen, cannot answer this question. 

Will not straight up racism nor deliberately offensive, it is still an uncomfortable question. I mean they will not be asking Sadiq Khan or Rishi Sunak that question, so why me? 

[Ziddan 947]

21 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

they will not be asking Sadiq Khan or Rishi Sunak that question, so why me? 

TBF the askers probably know what those two are up to in a general sense, do they know as much about you?

[alvinlwh 5895]

27 minutes ago, Ziddan said:

 do they know as much about you?

They don't, so they made assumptions based only on my skin color. That, is the very definition of casual racism. 

[Ziddan 947]

25 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

They don't, so they made assumptions based only on my skin color. That, is the very definition of casual racism. 

And if you want to try doing something about that you would say "I live across the street" rather than tattling to some official about the question, that in all likelihood was well meaning, non-malicious and inconsequential small talk, who will then reprimand them and breed resentment...

Much of todays problems stem from skin that can be described as "thin" rather than "coloured" IMO.

People generally go by the data points they have, "right, this guy/gal looks like that which makes X likely", they wouldnt be wrong most of the time.

[alvinlwh 5895]

28 minutes ago, Ziddan said:

And if you want to try doing something about that you would say "I live across the street" rather than tattling to some official about the question, that in all likelihood was well meaning, non-malicious and inconsequential small talk, who will then reprimand them and breed resentment...

Much of todays problems stem from skin that can be described as "thin" rather than "coloured" IMO.

People generally go by the data points they have, "right, this guy/gal looks like that which makes X likely", they wouldnt be wrong most of the time.

I did tell them that and they got confused. Why? Because they are expecting a yes no answer, not the answer I gave them. To make matter worse, they thought I don't understand English and therefore their question when it was them not expecting, and therefore, not understanding my answer. 

Also, since I work in the council (local government) things are slightly different. It is quite hard to explain but we will come across very delicate and sensitive situations. I will give another example, can you imagine the trouble we will get into if someone on official business asks an Ukrainian refugee "when are you going home?". Or to take it to the extreme, asking them "how is your family?" when their family are buried under a ton of Russian bombs. It is not a issue of thin skin but rather the anguish such question can bring. Ask my kids the same question and they will get really confused and are too young to know to respond in your suggested way. Further more, what is such a question implying to them? 

No, no one was reprimanded. I did not go "tattling" off to rat about someone, in fact, no names were even mentioned. Rather, I spoke to the equality officer to raise awareness of issues that may arise from such causal non-malicious questions, rather than to make a formal complain about them.

I don't expect you to agree with me since you already said "wouldn't be wrong most of the time", but in the council, we have to do things right all the time or it will be the proverbial hitting the fan. At least the equality officer agreed with me and thank me for my input in helping with drawing up new guides and advices. 

[Ziddan 947]

4 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

1- they got confused.

2- I will give another example, can you imagine the trouble we will get into if someone on official business asks an Ukrainian refugee "when are you going home?". Or to take it to the extreme, asking them "how is your family?"

3- Ask my kids the same question and they will get really confused and are too young to know to respond in your suggested way. Further more, what is such a question implying to them? 

4- I spoke to the equality officer to raise awareness of issues that may arise from such causal non-malicious questions, rather than to make a formal complain about them.
 I don't expect you to agree with me since you already said "wouldn't be wrong most of the time", but in the council, we have to do things right all the time or it will be the proverbial hitting the fan. At least the equality officer agreed with me and thank me for my input in helping with drawing up new guides and advices. 

1- And after settling the confusion they now know in a general sense, like they do about the two mentioned earlier, some of what is to be expected with you.

2- Both are completely valid questions coming from someone on a local council, figuring such out is in all likelihood part of the job description when figuring out someones situation regarding their stay, if the questioned makes a stink about it that should be on them, rather than the person doing their job.

3- confusion is part of growing up and figuring out the world, as for any implications they take out of it, those would likely have been taught to them by you as their parent. I would hope it isnt "those people are racists" instead of "those people dont know me yet".

4- Thats ok-ish then but people cant just be walking on egg shells because then nothing will get done, i think the social media era has put a big damper on stuff getting done due to all the witch hunting going on.