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nowinaminute

To grease or not to grease. Starting to have conflicting experiences.

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So, commonly accepted wisdom that most people avoid greasing most of the external points that Tamiya suggest in the manuals. I'm talking stuff like dog bones, suspension arm pins etc.

The idea being that grease will only trap dirt/grit/sand and create a grinding paste and accelerate wear.

I've generally followed this practice and it has seemed to work OK. Dirt will still eventually get ina nd wear places but it seems to happen at a slower rate than with grease present.

But recently, I've noticed some things, especially when running at the beach a lot. I've noticed that without grease, suspension arms and steering cranks can often become seized up from fine sand/grit getting stuck in there and causing  a lot of friction. Imagine if you press the car down and there's no rebound, it just sort of stays where it is. And with the steering you can never quite get the car to stay centered because that little bit of slack has gone, even with the servo disconnected, the steering assembly is firm/stiff and not free moving.

I've been taking my Thunder Dragon to the beach a lot recently and the first few times, the suspension arms and steering would both get stiff and not move freely after a while and when taken apart, were bunged up with fine powdered sand. Had similar experiences with various other RCs inc DT02/03, kyosho, Nikko you name it. I've also noticed that no grease combined with all plastic ball joints (ie: where the ball itself is plastic) leads to very fast wear.

Anyways, I decided to try adding a little grease, just to see what would happen and lo and behold, everything was moving nicely after the run. Although grease will trap sand, it also hinders it from quickly making progress into small places. Just like I use a bead of grease around the seams in gearboxes to stop sand making it's way in.

I also found plastic ball joints don't seem to suffer so quickly,  as long as you clean and relube before further use.

I'm sure if I just left it was it was, the "grinding paste" scenario would eventually come true. But I'm wondering now, if for stuff like beach runs, it might be wiser to use grease, as long as you clean out and replace it again after the run, as opposed to leaving it to gradually absorb more sand/grit etc.

Anyone else had similar findings? 

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19 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

Although grease will trap sand, it also hinders it from quickly making progress into small places.

Agree with all your thinking and the bit I’ve quoted is where my thinking ended up too with regard to prepping cars for the beach, etc.

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1 hour ago, nowinaminute said:

So, commonly accepted wisdom that most people avoid greasing most of the external points that Tamiya suggest in the manuals. I'm talking stuff like dog bones, suspension arm pins etc.

The idea being that grease will only trap dirt/grit/sand and create a grinding paste and accelerate wear.

I've generally followed this practice and it has seemed to work OK. Dirt will still eventually get ina nd wear places but it seems to happen at a slower rate than with grease present.

But recently, I've noticed some things, especially when running at the beach a lot. I've noticed that without grease, suspension arms and steering cranks can often become seized up from fine sand/grit getting stuck in there and causing  a lot of friction. 

I've been taking my Thunder Dragon to the beach a lot recently and the first few times, the suspension arms and steering would both get stiff and not move freely after a while and when taken apart, were bunged up with fine powdered sand. Had similar experiences with various other RCs inc DT02/03, kyosho, Nikko you name it. I've also noticed that no grease combined with all plastic ball joints (ie: where the ball itself is plastic) leads to very fast wear.

Anyways, I decided to try adding a little grease, just to see what would happen and lo and behold, everything was moving nicely after the run. Although grease will trap sand, it also hinders it from quickly making progress into small places. Just like I use a bead of grease around the seams in gearboxes to stop sand making it's way in.

I also found plastic ball joints don't seem to suffer so quickly,  as long as you clean and relube before further use.

I'm sure if I just left it was it was, the "grinding paste" scenario would eventually come true. But I'm wondering now, if for stuff like beach runs, it might be wiser to use grease, as long as you clean out and replace it again after the run, as opposed to leaving it to gradually absorb more sand/grit etc.

Anyone else had similar findings? 

It really all depends on the conditions being run in.

In Florida, on the streets, we have a fine sand "dust". When greasing the areas you have listed, I get a rapid paste of grease and sand dust in those locations. So for me, the grease is a no-go.

I have been meaning to use a few dry lubes, but as long as I don't grease those locations, and do cleaning every now and then, I haven't had any further issues.

-RC Perspective

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18 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

So, commonly accepted wisdom that most people avoid greasing most of the external points that Tamiya suggest in the manuals. I'm talking stuff like dog bones, suspension arm pins etc.

The idea being that grease will only trap dirt/grit/sand and create a grinding paste and accelerate wear.

I've generally followed this practice and it has seemed to work OK. Dirt will still eventually get ina nd wear places but it seems to happen at a slower rate than with grease present.

But recently, I've noticed some things, especially when running at the beach a lot. I've noticed that without grease, suspension arms and steering cranks can often become seized up from fine sand/grit getting stuck in there and causing  a lot of friction. Imagine if you press the car down and there's no rebound, it just sort of stays where it is. And with the steering you can never quite get the car to stay centered because that little bit of slack has gone, even with the servo disconnected, the steering assembly is firm/stiff and not free moving.

I've been taking my Thunder Dragon to the beach a lot recently and the first few times, the suspension arms and steering would both get stiff and not move freely after a while and when taken apart, were bunged up with fine powdered sand. Had similar experiences with various other RCs inc DT02/03, kyosho, Nikko you name it. I've also noticed that no grease combined with all plastic ball joints (ie: where the ball itself is plastic) leads to very fast wear.

Anyways, I decided to try adding a little grease, just to see what would happen and lo and behold, everything was moving nicely after the run. Although grease will trap sand, it also hinders it from quickly making progress into small places. Just like I use a bead of grease around the seams in gearboxes to stop sand making it's way in.

I also found plastic ball joints don't seem to suffer so quickly,  as long as you clean and relube before further use.

I'm sure if I just left it was it was, the "grinding paste" scenario would eventually come true. But I'm wondering now, if for stuff like beach runs, it might be wiser to use grease, as long as you clean out and replace it again after the run, as opposed to leaving it to gradually absorb more sand/grit etc.

Anyone else had similar findings? 

I am running my cars for years 99% of the time on the beach, and I never use grease, in the begin when I started the hobby I used grease but It was acting like a grinding paste and stuff wear quickly.

So grease on the beach is a big no no for me, but to be honest I do not have the experience that things seized up like steering and suspension arms, and to put grease on them every run and then remove it and put new on seems like a lot of work,  maybe it is the grain of the sand why I do not have seized up parts, the grain here on the beach is rough.

Maybe use Dry lube, I have used that and it works fine.

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1 hour ago, dannymulder said:

Maybe use Dry lube, I have used that and it works fine.

Tried dry lube but it does nothing to stop it getting into places and binding stuff.

It could well be a factor of grain size, plus I tend to run in the very dry sand that kicks up in clouds everywhere.

Seems to affect different vehicles differently, too. I don't recall ever having a problem with my Lunchbox or heavy dump truck, for example (apart from now and then it will get into the steering link ball joint on the dump truck)

But certainly the Thunder Dragon has done it every time I've taken it out. In particular it gets stiff in these places.

20220707_083525_copy_1280x960.thumb.jpg.46955b3414d318a87529d4a704b334e0.jpg

There's such a small contact area I was in disbelief that it was sand at first but after cleaning and reassembling again, it went back to being smooth as silk. Then I ran it again and the same thing happened. But after adding grease, it would make it through a run without binding.

I also had the same thing with the TD steering assembly. Although to be fair, this has happened after running in fine dirt as well, so not exclusive to the beach. But the same kind of thing where sand seems to get in and seize it up, preventing it from centering properly after a steering input. Again, only adding some grease seemed to prevent it. You can see in the photo where grease has caught the sand, but has also stopped it getting further inside, assessed on the mechanism still being free after several runs whereas before it got stiff and "crunchy" after every run.

20220707_084122_copy_1280x1159.thumb.jpg.3f404a8ab550c47106e0ab8ec2b294eb.jpg

I suppose like most things in life, there's a thousand variables at work simultaneously so there's no catch all answer for every scenario. I still general avoid greasing for the most part, but in some cases it certainly seems to help. 

On a side note, I've taken my Kyosho Mad Van to the beach just 3 times with no grease and look at the ball joints on the front uprights 😳 

20220707_084514_copy_1200x1600.thumb.jpg.e1467e71edfc7a56ece25dd381333acf.jpg

That part has never seen grease and it's getting nicely chewed up, still.

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1 hour ago, nowinaminute said:

But certainly the Thunder Dragon has done it every time I've taken it out.

Out dragons seem to be great at picking up stuff. I got half a football field's worth of grass wrapped around my rear drive. 🤣

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I avoid sand in everything but something simple with relative few pivot points, like a Lunch Box. In my mind, the abrasive nature of sand is going to chew at things no matter what. I can completely visualize @nowinaminute's experience of sand -bound dry pivot points and I do see grease helping improve that situation. In the end, sand is going to get in there and scuff things up and will need cleaned out. It might be harder to clean, clumped up with grease, but it will perform better in action. Wear and cleaning will be the results either way IMO.

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3 hours ago, nowinaminute said:

Tried dry lube but it does nothing to stop it getting into places and binding stuff.

It could well be a factor of grain size, plus I tend to run in the very dry sand that kicks up in clouds everywhere.

Seems to affect different vehicles differently, too. I don't recall ever having a problem with my Lunchbox or heavy dump truck, for example (apart from now and then it will get into the steering link ball joint on the dump truck)

But certainly the Thunder Dragon has done it every time I've taken it out. In particular it gets stiff in these places.

20220707_083525_copy_1280x960.thumb.jpg.46955b3414d318a87529d4a704b334e0.jpg

There's such a small contact area I was in disbelief that it was sand at first but after cleaning and reassembling again, it went back to being smooth as silk. Then I ran it again and the same thing happened. But after adding grease, it would make it through a run without binding.

I also had the same thing with the TD steering assembly. Although to be fair, this has happened after running in fine dirt as well, so not exclusive to the beach. But the same kind of thing where sand seems to get in and seize it up, preventing it from centering properly after a steering input. Again, only adding some grease seemed to prevent it. You can see in the photo where grease has caught the sand, but has also stopped it getting further inside, assessed on the mechanism still being free after several runs whereas before it got stiff and "crunchy" after every run.

20220707_084122_copy_1280x1159.thumb.jpg.3f404a8ab550c47106e0ab8ec2b294eb.jpg

I suppose like most things in life, there's a thousand variables at work simultaneously so there's no catch all answer for every scenario. I still general avoid greasing for the most part, but in some cases it certainly seems to help. 

On a side note, I've taken my Kyosho Mad Van to the beach just 3 times with no grease and look at the ball joints on the front uprights 😳 

20220707_084514_copy_1200x1600.thumb.jpg.e1467e71edfc7a56ece25dd381333acf.jpg

That part has never seen grease and it's getting nicely chewed up, still.

My fire dragon build is almost done, then I am going to run it on the beach, so I wil see of thing are going to bind on this model, If it does maybe I am use a little grease.

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