KYOSHO Optima Mid - for some Vintage Racing.

[toyolien]

About a year or so ago I got back into 10th off road racing again at my local club. It's a purpose built astro track that was originally built as a multi-surface track around 1994, when I was a much younger member, but has changed slightly over the years and it now pretty much all astro. I raced an RC10 B6.3 last year and then sold it during winter. So, when the Mid was announced I knew that was the car to get me racing again.

The Optima Mid was the first radio controlled car that I ever saw going round a track. It was 1988 and we went to the local carnival. There was a model car club there that had a lovely grass track laid out and was doing some racing for the crowd. At the time I didn't know what the cars were, but after buying several magazines I was realised I'd seen the Optima Mid and CAT XLS. I couldn't afford either and that was that. I did, however, start racing in 1991 with a second hand Manta Ray, and the following year I got a second hand ProCat, and have been racing locally on and off since then.

Back to the Mid. The intention with this build is to race in the vintage 4wd class. The last of the summer series is in two weeks, so it's got to be a fairly rapid build. I'm adding a few choice hop ups as I'll most likely be using a nice 10.5t brushless motor.

This is my first ever Kyosho build, and as others have said, it's a massive step up from the Tamiya builds I'm used to. The quality of the plastics and fit/finish reminds me of the RC10 I recently built. Very impressed.

 

Off we go:

 

Hop ups first. universal shafts, HD Gear, machined motor plate, titanium turnbuckles etc...

 

And, a few lovely carbon parts from Fiber-Lyte.

 

 

First part of the build are the front and rear diffs. I was initially very confused and though I had some parts missing. Then I realised that some of the parts were in bag A, and some were in the blister packaging on the box. Also, the manual makes no reference to when a part is plastic, and when it's metal. It took a while to figure out.

 

To start with I've gone for 7000wt oil in the front diff, and 5000 in the rear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First hop up. The HD mid gear. The quality is superb and the tolerance is exceptional.

 

 

 

Rear gearbox finished and belt installed.

 

 

Next up, the motor plate. Again, the quality is superb.

 

 

Here you can see the heat sink on the back.

 

 

And the HD slipper pads go in next.

 

 

Beautiful. You'd be forgiven for thinking that this is the gearbox from a modern race buggy, not something that is getting on for 35 years old!

 

The front gearbox just contains the oil diff and belt.

 

And, both gearboxes mounted onto the alloy chassis. I decided against the carbon chassis.

 

The lower part of the belt is covered with a nice clear plastic piece that has strips of foam stuck on to create a nice dust seal.

 

 

Universal shafts. I'm going to run these in the front and the rear.

 

 

 

 

I already had these Schumacher titanium turnbuckles left from another build, so I'm hoping the lengths will be OK. The do differ from the manual by a few millimetres so we'll see how they build up.

 

 

The rear hubs are also very tough looking. I like the double-sheer mounts for the upper links.

 

 

 

 

The front and rear turnbuckles were great, but the steering links I had were too long, so had to order some Kyosho replacements which should be here tomorrow, so that's all for now.

 

 

 

 

[bRIBEGuy]

Looks amazing so far. 

Aside from cost, what was the reasoning for sticking with the aluminum chassis instead of going carbon?

[rwordenjr]

Looks great ! I’ve been trying to find those universals 🥲

[Sgt.Speirs]

To be honest, I would also prefer the alu chassis instead of the carbon one 😊

@toyolien: Lovely build and good decision to do a work log 👍🏻

[WillyChang]

Needs an undertray to keep all the crud out  

 

Got a race date for mine too... kit all built but gotta shoehorn in the electrics. 

[toyolien]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:01 PM, bRIBEGuy said:

Looks amazing so far. 

Aside from cost, what was the reasoning for sticking with the aluminum chassis instead of going carbon?

I actually prefer the look of the alloy chassis. Also, the Fiber-Lyte were actually for the original Mid, and while they emailed over the technical drawings for me to compare, I couldn't be 100% sure that all the holes would line up so didn't take the risk. It may be something I change in the future, but we'll see...

 

On 7/12/2022 at 8:20 PM, rwordenjr said:

Looks great ! I’ve been trying to find those universals 🥲

Thanks. I got them from here:

https://www.rdvtg.com/

However, they are not in stock at the moment. They don't have a "Notify me" option, so you have to keep checking.

 

On 7/12/2022 at 9:54 PM, Sgt.Speirs said:

To be honest, I would also prefer the alu chassis instead of the carbon one 😊

@toyolien: Lovely build and good decision to do a work log 👍🏻

Thank you for taking a look. i do enjoy looking back at my builds, and it's useful sometimes to see what oil, springs etc I've used.

 

5 hours ago, WillyChang said:

Needs an undertray to keep all the crud out  

 

Got a race date for mine too... kit all built but gotta shoehorn in the electrics. 

I've got a Penguin RC body for race duties, and that comes with an undertray 

[toyolien]

Next installment.

 

As I suspected, the Schumacher turnbuckles I had for the steering links were too long, so I picked up the Kyosho ones instead.

 

 

Last of the hop ups (for now). The plastic steering link is a little 'flimsy' so this will stiffen up the steering.

 

 

Dampers next. I've built loads of Tamiya dampers, but these are my first Kyosho. I'd read of people having issues getting these little plastic seals to seat. So, I took my time and they were not as difficult as I was expecting.

 

Here's the completed lowers. It did occur to be that there was nothing holding the red 'o' rings in place and therefore as the piston moves up they can come out of the lower housing allowing oil to pass though. Not sure whether this will ever be an issue though. I may be over thinking it.

 

All done. Not sure I'm a big fan of the gold look. Kind of makes them look a little 'cheap' I suppose, but they do feel really smooth.

 

 

And, all mounted up on the car.

 

 

 

I'm quite pushed for time this week, but I'm hoping to get the electrics in and the rest of the chassis finished before the end of the weekend. That's the plan, anyway.

[Andreas W]

A nice build thread and a pleasure to read - just like your thread about the Super Duper Hot Shot. Either a Turbo Optima or a Mid is next on my list, but by now impossible to decide.

 

Looking forward to the electronics install. This will probably be a tricky one. At least tight. 

[Willy iine]

Awesome build thread as always, @toyolien!!  

Man I wish I could get those motor plate and universals.. I looked everywhere but everyone was out of stock.  

Which brings me back to my errrrr! about Kyosho.. why do they not just make an all-in kit (or bundle) for us who are wanting the flag ship with everything on it??!    I mean this is a nostalgic kit.. maybe we couldn’t afford it back then, but it’s probably the same folks that are coming back wanting it now.. plus dog bones in a flagship model?  Really??  Come on now, right?

Anyway, GL with the rest of your build! 

[toyolien]

10 hours ago, Andreas W said:

A nice build thread and a pleasure to read - just like your thread about the Super Duper Hot Shot. Either a Turbo Optima or a Mid is next on my list, but by now impossible to decide.

 

Looking forward to the electronics install. This will probably be a tricky one. At least tight. 

Thanks very much. Installing the electrics is probably my favourite part of the build 

 

3 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Awesome build thread as always, @toyolien!!  

Man I wish I could get those motor plate and universals.. I looked everywhere but everyone was out of stock.  

Which brings me back to my errrrr! about Kyosho.. why do they not just make an all-in kit (or bundle) for us who are wanting the flag ship with everything on it??!    I mean this is a nostalgic kit.. maybe we couldn’t afford it back then, but it’s probably the same folks that are coming back wanting it now.. plus dog bones in a flagship model?  Really??  Come on now, right?

Anyway, GL with the rest of your build! 

Thank you @Willy iine

I ordered the universals and motor plate when the kit was announced. I actually enjoy the chase of sourcing hop ups rather than them being all in one box. Agree with you on the dog bones though. They should have been left in the 1980's! 

[Willy iine]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:59 AM, toyolien said:

 

Thank you @Willy iine

I ordered the universals and motor plate when the kit was announced. I actually enjoy the chase of sourcing hop ups rather than them being all in one box. Agree with you on the dog bones though. They should have been left in the 1980's! 

That's smart thinking.  

On mine I decided to just run the dog bones while I  wait for the Kyosho universals to be available again.. and I ordered another 1252MG from another store so no need to check on the 1251 with short cable to see if the cable is long enough for the car.  

Edited July 15, 2022 by Willy iine

[WillyChang]

12 hours ago, Willy iine said:

plus dog bones in a flagship model?

It’s a plain “Mid” 

Not Turbo, not SE, not Custom Special... just plain Jane bottom of the food chain Mid  

Might be flag bearer of fancier versions to come, who knows? (Still dunno why the Turbo bonus decals though)

[WillyChang]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:35 AM, toyolien said:

The plastic steering link is a little 'flimsy' so this will stiffen up the steering.

Gah! I so need that OTW143  or else gotta open half the car to refit after its completion 

[Willy iine]

Any further updates, @toyolien?

I noticed I missed out on the steering link set option as well... but will be running the flanged and regular bearings in the steering linkage.  

Man, Kyosho needs to get their act together to make the options more readily available.. the only set of factory universals I found are going for $150 or something.    If this was a discontinued kit, maybe, but it's a fresh release so still waiting.

Looking forward to your next update!

[WillyChang]

3 hours ago, Willy iine said:

factory universals

them OTW125B are just universals not CVDs just to add insult to injury 

 

Oh yeah, further insult... test built my Mid back in May, then it got shoved back into box awaiting necessary hopups. Peeked into box today & found shocks are already leaking  grr

[Willy iine]

6 hours ago, WillyChang said:

them OTW125B are just universals not CVDs just to add insult to injury 

 

Oh yeah, further insult... test built my Mid back in May, then it got shoved back into box awaiting necessary hopups. Peeked into box today & found shocks are already leaking  grr

Yep, I noticed that too.  I suppose I can go with 3rd party universals, but since Kyosho makes them, why not, right?

Someone here said straight in my face that it was me that was 100% at fault for being dumb and unable to build those dampers properly.  They shouldn't leak.  I agree 150% that I am dumb (my parents would also agree ), but it's funny how folks take so much offense when one says something negative about Kyosho (you notice this?).  

Have they even met Kogawa-san?  I use to hang out with him all the time along with his HPI guys when I lived in Socal in the late 90's.  They even based one of my 1:1 cars to make their mold for their (HPI) touring car bodies.  

[Superluminal]

In my experience Kyosho shocks are like flat roofs and basements. Theres those that leak and those that are probably about to start leaking.

My rere Javelin and Turbo Scorpion live permanently on a sheet of kitchen roll as they leaked within days of completing the build and have not been run. The Outlaw Rampage shocks had leaked so badly in the box that Modelsport sent me some bottles of shock oil free as it had practically all gone (inside the wheel hubs and over the transmitter) The Tomohawk I upgraded to Kyosho gold shocks has (touch wood) been ok so far.

[Willy iine]

53 minutes ago, Superluminal said:

In my experience Kyosho shocks are like flat roofs and basements. Theres those that leak and those that are probably about to start leaking.

My rere Javelin and Turbo Scorpion live permanently on a sheet of kitchen roll as they leaked within days of completing the build and have not been run. The Outlaw Rampage shocks had leaked so badly in the box that Modelsport sent me some bottles of shock oil free as it had practically all gone (inside the wheel hubs and over the transmitter) The Tomohawk I upgraded to Kyosho gold shocks has (touch wood) been ok so far.

Thanks for that, I thought I was alone as I have basically zero knowledge of Kyosho's 1:10 cars (I only have a Javelin and RTR Blizzard, couple of MiniZ's) and some folks were adamant I was doing something wrong.  But again, not having much knowledge, I didn't have any evidence or facts to rebut.  That said, my Javelin's shocks do not appear to be leaking after I rebuilt them.. yet.

[Andreas W]

My gold shocks on my Burns DX was always been OK. The box is still dry after years of storage. The rear on my Tomahawk were OK from day one. The fronts had to be rebuilt 3 times to stop leaking. There is a lot of truth in the words of Superluminal above  (and still I love Kyosho). 

 

Looking forward to more building of the nice Mid .

[WillyChang]

22 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Someone here said straight in my face that it was me that was 100% at fault for being dumb and unable to build those dampers properly.  They shouldn't leak.

well I built the mid’s shocks plus another 2 sets of CVAs in recent weeks, used same greenslime & building tools  

All 4 gold shocks have become “aerated”; definitely no air bubbles in them immediately after I filled & vac’d them

wondering now which Tamiya shock seals I can retrofit stuff into the mid shocks 

not yet sure if it’s leaking from the shaft o-rings or the nylon gasket of the cap/body but all 4 corners are damp

so happens it’s the first Taiwan Kyosho kit I’ve built so far

Shocks on my japanese made F40 (1990?) and Inferno (1992?) haven’t leaked in 30yrs  

[toyolien]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:51 PM, Willy iine said:

Any further updates, @toyolien?

I noticed I missed out on the steering link set option as well... but will be running the flanged and regular bearings in the steering linkage.  

Man, Kyosho needs to get their act together to make the options more readily available.. the only set of factory universals I found are going for $150 or something.    If this was a discontinued kit, maybe, but it's a fresh release so still waiting.

Looking forward to your next update!

No updates yet. I was supposed to be getting it ready for a vintage race this Sunday but our holiday has been brought forward so I'm now away for 7 days. This means I'll have to enter the last round at the beginning of September. I'm disappointed I'll miss this weekend but at least I'll get a bit of practice at the track 😁

[toyolien]

I was supposed to be racing this last Sunday, but that didn't happen. We were due to be on holiday this last week, but at the last minute the place we were staying at rang last Wednesday to say we could arrive three days earlier, which my Wife agreed to. So, this meant that I lost a few days prep and couldn't get it done in time. And now we're back, I've got Covid. So now I have got the time... Ironic.

 

So, next step is to finish the electronics. I'm not going for anything too fancy. A nice SkyRC 10.5t motor and Hobbywing 10BL120 esc. Oh, and a Savox 1251 black edition low profile servo. I like these because they have a nice short wire.

 

And my shorty Lipos fit length ways in the chassis. Result! I just screwed in the battery plates the other way round to the manual.

 

I got carried away, so only have a few pics of the electrics all in.

 

And, with the undertray fitted.

 

 

I'll be using Schumacher wheels and tires, as I already have a few sets.

 

 

It's odd that the fronts have way more thread showing than the rears. That must be down to the wheels and the shafts are the same front and back.

 

 

 

Now on to the job that I've been putting off the most. The sway bars.

I've been waiting for Kyosho to release them, but when I saw the pics I wasn't happy with how high up the rear one was mounted. So, decided to make my own. I had an idea of where I wanted to mount it so here goes.

First job was to make a copy of the rear suspension mount plate but extend it upwards to mount the sway bar to.

 

Pretty happy so far, as I'm just using a saw, a file and some sand paper.

 

Quick test mount.

 

I then countersunk the back so that the bolt heads didn't foul the chassis.

 

 

 

And finally, a cut out to clear the sway bar stays (these will just stop the sway bar from moving side to side).

 

 

And, all fitted up with a modified DT-02 sway bar.

 

This looks much better than the Kyosho version (in my opinion). And much lower and sleaker.

 

The eagle eyed will also notice the other reason why I had to make my own rear sway bar. I've swapped the rear wishbones round so that shocks are now at the back. There are two reasons for this. 1) I've got a new rear shock mount coming with more hole options, and this will only work with it mounted at the back of the rear transmission instead of in front as the kit is. If mounted in the kit position, the drive side shock will foul on the spur gear cover. 2) I've ordered some Tamiya big bore dampers to use ( I can't stop the Kyosho shocks leaking, even on the bench), and these won't clear the spur gear cover unless the damper mount is mounted at the rear.

 

Spot the Tamiya parts?

 

 

 

The front was a little easier. I had already bought a sway bar kit for the Optima (Not Mid) so that I had all the part for the front kit. However, this was still not a straight fit. I'd been advised that the Optima and Optima Mid share the same front sway bar, but I can now tell you that they don't.

But, with the kit came the necessary parts for me to rustle something up.

I used the Kyosho balls and plastic ball connectors, but the sway bar moved side to side in the chassis. My only option was to modify the front suspension brace to allow me to use some Tamiya sway bar clamps to stop the bar moving. This wasn't as hard as it sounds.

 

 

 

That's all done for now. Phew! Next up will be the body I suspect. The last round of the local summer series (vintage heat for me) is 4th September, so that is now the new goal. I'm hoping to get some track time in before then.

[Willy iine]

Very nicely done, @toyolien .. And you know I love seeing custom made one-off parts!!   

[toyolien]

21 hours ago, Willy iine said:

Very nicely done, @toyolien .. And you know I love seeing custom made one-off parts!!   

Thanks @Willy iine I also like making custom stuff, but don't often get the chance these days, especially with 'out the box' kits. So, I really enjoyed getting the files out on this one....

[Ferruz]

Great stuff @toyolien, and such quality work all over the car. The one-off braces for the sway bars are really inspiring and perfectly thought out!

I'm disappointed to hear that the shocks leak all over, I was counting on using them in my build. I'll give them a try, but it seems that nobody's been happy with them so far since the rerelease.

Your RC garage is nothing short of amazing, I love all the little details! 😃👍